TRUE DETECTIVE on hbo - matthew mcconaughey, woody harrelson, michelle monaghan, fukunaga, pizzolatto

OMG this show

just started rewatching s01 with the girlfriend. just as good 2nd time around.

HBO made some official statement denying plagiarism and Thomas Ligotti's fans are pissed about it because they say some of the pessimistic dialogue is near identical to some of Ligotti's passages.
I think there was also some people saying it lifted from specific writing of Alan Moore or Grant Morrison too.

http://www.vox.com/2014/8/7/5975769/true-detective-a-work-of-plagiarism-a-guide

http://takimag.com/article/fake_detective_ann_sterzinger/print#axzz39ck6v4Qk

Also there was an MTV article saying "you can't steal from a book"

No links to takimag plz

lol nerds

I know nothing about Takimag other than this article

Make sure you keep it that way

Why are you so anti-tmag?

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Well, I mean besides that?

man what happened to ann sterzinger

I should have clarified about that MTV article that said "you can't steal from a book". Rather than meaning you shouldn't steal, the writer was saying it isn't possible to steal from a book!

holy shit @ 10 Great Things About Young Nannies

COHLE: It’s all one gutter, man. A giant gutter in outer space.

“…in the black-foaming gutters and back alleys of paradise, in the dank windowless gloom of some galactic cellar, in the hollow pearly whorls found in sewerlike seas, in starless cities of insanity, and in their slums . . .” (“The Frolic,” Thomas Ligotti)

COHLE: And other times I thought I was seeing straight into the true heart of things.

“…horrible ‘inner Truth’ of things.” (CATHR on Conrad’s “Heart of Darkness”, p. 108)

This is not plagiarism. And the other examples are not much stronger.

yeah this sucks

And the best thing is that he acknowledged wording some lines as a homage to Ligotti, but they are still mad because he only admitted it after the lines had aired...

I think there was also some people saying it lifted from specific writing of Alan Moore or Grant Morrison too.

I wish people would read threads before posting to them, the Moore lift has been discussed here like 5 different times, and every time it's some new poster saying, "hey, did you guys hear this series copied Alan Moore?".

But in case you missed, the relevant part of the thread starts here:

TRUE DETECTIVE on hbo - matthew mcconaughey, woody harrelson, michelle monaghan, fukunaga, pizzolatto

I guess with Moore you could argue the case for plagiarism is stronger, because he didn't just borrow some general concepts and expressions (which most writers do), he borrowed the whole heartwarming parable that summarizes and concludes the story.

I skipped a lot of this thread because ppl started writing essays about how they would have written and made their version of a show I was watching tbf

Yeah, I don't blame you, but it's not that hard to ctrl+f the word "Moore".

true, true

I believe the contention is that Pizzolatto plagiarised Ligotti's ideas rather than his exact phrasing. He seems pretty shady and disingenous about his source material in general though. All that "Faulkner and the King James Bible are my real influences" stuff when asked about Robert Chambers

um theres no such thing as plagiarizing ideas

yes there is

should I fetch a dictionary?

u shd fetch a sign that says hi im dumb and dont understand art and then tape it to yrself

can't remember last time someone tried to zing lagúna its like hitting the landlord from kung fu hustle why would you do it

It's ok to admit you were wrong man. ftr I think the whole thing is overblown and a a charge of plagiarism is very difficult to apply to a tv show that draws from many different sources, but I also think it's becoming increasingly clear that Pizzolatto is a bit of a hack who got lucky

did u plagiarize ur shtick from some other intolerable mannered passive aggressive guy or did u just get lucky

I'm just another tragic misstep in evolution

yeah i read the article with the side by side comparisons and it's like, er, u kno that's not plagiarism rite

http://summaryofmysoul.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/yinyang.jpg

xp j/k btw none i dont really h8 u or think u r bad

i do think charges of plagiarism when just parts of ideas of things are similar r dumb tho

it's cool

the real question is why didn't Nick Pizzolatto give Charli XCX a shout-out?

hahahaha

this might be a stupid question but do you suppose NP wanted it to be implied or at least considered plausible that in the True Detective universe these same comix and Ligotti writings exist and Rust read them and likes to paraphrase them when he goes off on his little flowery speeches? not that it makes any difference from a legal standpoint but that's almost how i interpret it.

rust as a comic book guy is v good

I suggested upthread that Rust might be a Alan Moore fan... :) Him intentionally paraphrasing Ligotti I could buy, because it's pretty obvious Rust's nihilist philosophy isn't something he just invented himself, he's clearly a well-read guy. (IIRC his apartment is shown to have piles of worn books lying around?) But the final stars/darkness dialogue is presented as kind of a major epiphany Rust had, not just him quoting his favourite superhero comic. Plus Marty's part of the dialogue (where he suggests darkness is winning) is borrowed straight from Top 10 too, so it's not just Rust quoting that comic. I doubt Pizzolatto intended to suggest that both of them are comic book readers, and that both of them are quoting the same comic without ever acknowledging it.

(xpost)

ah yeah good point.

The books in Rust's apartment are all crime/procedural related, iirc

"Cops don't read" - James Ellroy

The ones we see, yeah, but there are piles of them... I think the viewer is expected to assume he's a literate guy in general. Like, when he's talking about M-theory to the two detectives, IIRC he says something like "there's this theory" (not "this is my theory on how the universe works"), so the implication is he's read some theoretical physics too, not just criminology.

I don't think this is as big a deal as some do. Some of the examples compared aren't convincing at all but it's clear that more than just ideas were taken. If he changed some sentences a bit more it would have been totally fine.

Whatever the case, Ligotti is selling better and that's nice. I doubt he'll ever comment on the matter and I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't know anything about it.

I still haven't figured out how to word-search a page on my kindle, I wanted to search "Moore" and "Morrisson" last night but I wanted to go to bed more.

I just figured out the word-search now. Finally!

now go search out the light

but it's clear that more than just ideas were taken. If he changed some sentences a bit more it would have been totally fine.

Which sentences? I've read all the articles posted itt and I don't see examples of this. The longest word-for-word match was "should not exist by natural law," and they both used "tragic"/'tragedy", "conscious[ness,]" and "evolve"/"evolution" within a few sentences of each other (possibly - there are a lot of ellipses of uncertain length in the Ligotti quotes).

Those are the ones. But like I said, I don't think this is that big a deal, I just think they are a tad too similar.

I think the accusations of Aronofsky and Nolan stealing from Satoshi Kon were completely overblown. But I'd say Roger Dean suing over Avatar was justified.

RAG have you seen this

http://vimeo.com/m/101675469

I don't know ligotti but I do know schopenhauer, cioran, et al and it was pretty clear rust was riffing on that "tradition" from the beginning. which is partly why I was annoyed at the "dorm room philosophy" stuff--it wasn't exactly original or loopy stuff he was saying but pretty close to age-old ways of thinking.

Thanks, I hadn't seen that Kon piece.

so i've been watching this of late and finished it at the weekend. can't recall any other show veering so suddenly and spectacularly off the rails as that terrible last episode! loved how it had been built up - those slow, atmospheric first three episodes building tension but not moving the plot anywhere fast (had to get used to this, having just come from the pow-pow-pow plots of orphan black and utopia), then the fourth episode finally breaking it all open action-wise (and how great that the tone and style of that episode was never repeated), then the fifth episode PEAKING in every respect - then it seemed like it was totally on pace for a satisfying conclusion until the final revelations were clichés and plotholes and nonsense.

the entire point was, like, conspiracy and dark mythology, and it was like the finale completely ignored all that lead-up to deliver a really really bog-standard and offensively caricatured serial killer conclusion. the killer was pretty implausible in the context of any conspiracy involving authorities, too. it could've redeemed itself had the showdown gone somewhere really dark - killer luring rust into his web to do WHAT to him? oh, just conk him on the head. whatevz. when his halfwit lover said "he's the worst thing ever" the show could've done with actually demonstrating that.

and then we were only halfway through the running time so we got what felt like five days' worth of rambling philosophising as if that's what anyone was there for in the first place, and this time without even marty bothering to puncture it. idk why they thought i'd been following the show because of their mundanely antagonistic relationship (they should've just fucked & got it over with) rather than the case.

(obv i found the lack of decent female characters a bit ~problematic throughout the season but it's not as if it let its male leads get away with their male bullshit; the related failure was more that every other character was just a device that the writers dropped in and pulled out entirely for their own convenience. it felt a bit like the show could've gone anywhere partly because the writers would write anyone convenient in.)

yep.