I would not expect a coherent response but really want him to do so...
― kinder, Tuesday, 8 July 2014 22:47 (nine years ago) link
there's definitely something minstrely about their antics.
Robert Plant using the term "spook music" in a tv interview a few years ago didn't help.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 8 July 2014 23:01 (nine years ago) link
well now I am humming that to the tune of "Antmusic" and fuck everything forever
― Star Gentle Uterus (DJP), Wednesday, 9 July 2014 02:29 (nine years ago) link
Is 'people of ethnicity' an actual term? I am in the UK and someone has used this in talking about 'diversity awareness' training and it sounds like a dressed-up version of 'those ethnics'.
― kinder, Tuesday, 8 July 2014 22:29 (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Yeah that's terrible. It's like saying you're only "a race" if you're not white, as if whiteness is the default/neutral from which all else diverges.
― Orson Wellies (in orbit), Tuesday, 8 July 2014 22:46 (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
"people of colour" sounds like this to me too actually
― when there's no more room in heㄥㄥ the thread will walk the earth (wins), Wednesday, 9 July 2014 06:36 (nine years ago) link
It's like a it's like someone started to say "coloured people" and then caught themselves & lamely tried to save it
― when there's no more room in heㄥㄥ the thread will walk the earth (wins), Wednesday, 9 July 2014 06:42 (nine years ago) link
It's like a
― when there's no more room in heㄥㄥ the thread will walk the earth (wins), Wednesday, 9 July 2014 06:43 (nine years ago) link
The term "people of color" always makes me want to start using the term "colorless people."
― Humorist (horse) (誤訳侮辱), Wednesday, 9 July 2014 13:10 (nine years ago) link
i bet
― balls, Wednesday, 9 July 2014 13:31 (nine years ago) link
I don't see color, ability or gender. I just see translucent bubbles floating toward me on the sidewalk.
People are much easier to pop when you look at them like that.
― pplains, Wednesday, 9 July 2014 15:47 (nine years ago) link
one of the most prominent anti-systemic racism/sj orgs in pdx is called the coalition of communities of color, and they use the term "people of color" a lot in their work... ie: "there's an 80% unemployment rate amongst people of color", etc.
initially i reacted very similarly to the posters itt when i heard the way the org used the term, but ime they are pretty damn progressive both in ethos and in the way they redefine census categories to reach more nuanced definitions of race and ethnicity (particularly wrt slavic or middle eastern or african communities, which are difficult to study using normal census categories). clearly they are supported by funds/foundations so it's difficult to say who exactly chose to use the term or who self-identifies as such, but it does seem to be embraced by all sorts of folks involved in this type of work - i'm not sure if that's necessarily a valid defense of the term, but i'm certainly more than willing to defer to others with considerably more expertise
― hug niceman (psychgawsple), Wednesday, 9 July 2014 17:32 (nine years ago) link
this term has been in use since the mid-90s
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 9 July 2014 17:34 (nine years ago) link
I first encountered it in college, ethnic studies depts etc
Some comic from around that time - or maybe it was a Bill Hicks routine or something - featuring the wacky "So yes, I'm working with persons of color" ... "You mean.... colored people then." "NO! THAT'S NOT WHAT I SAID!", etc.
It was edgy. Extreme and out there, dudes.
― pplains, Wednesday, 9 July 2014 17:37 (nine years ago) link
Daily Telegraph blogger and commentator Toby Young wrote: "In his defence, Hansen could cite the fact that America's foremost civil rights group is the NAACP which stands for the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. If it's acceptable for the NAACP to use the word "coloured", why isn't it acceptable for him?"[28]
Hansen issued an apology the following day, saying "'I unreservedly apologise for any offence caused – this was never my intention and I deeply regret the use of the word."[29][30]
― Little Saint Hugh of Lincoln (nakhchivan), Wednesday, 9 July 2014 17:40 (nine years ago) link
xps used way before the mid-90s, no?
― hug niceman (psychgawsple), Wednesday, 9 July 2014 17:42 (nine years ago) link
oh yeah, People of Color (POC) is a widely used term. I haven't heard "People of Ethnicity" before, but I imagine its an expansion to cover white people from other countries.
― relentlessly pecking at peace (President Keyes), Wednesday, 9 July 2014 17:44 (nine years ago) link
good ol Fanon
Influenced by radical theorists like Frantz Fanon, racial justice activists in the U.S. began to use the term people of color in the late 1970s and early 1980s.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 9 July 2014 17:45 (nine years ago) link
Hansen correctly assuming that if Toby Young is on your side you must be behaving like a cunt.
― You are the worst breed of fong (stevie), Thursday, 10 July 2014 08:36 (nine years ago) link
I am aware this term is a thing btw, and it still sounds weird and hedgy to me
― when there's no more room in heㄥㄥ the thread will walk the earth (wins), Thursday, 10 July 2014 09:47 (nine years ago) link
Wonder if it's a uk/us divide - iirc lex is not too happy w the term either
― 龜, Thursday, 10 July 2014 11:26 (nine years ago) link
I don't have thoughts re "people/person of color" because I feel like it's none of my business to affirm or object--I'll do what I'm told. The term is widely used among progressive, anti-racist, anti-oppression movement people and groups. Which doesn't mean I think it shouldn't still be scrutinized, but afaict it's not seen as problematic by any/most.
Porting that construction over to ethnicity seems like a thuddishly poor choice though--as if no one has "ethnicity" except ppl who aren't mainstream white America, whatever that means and whoever gets to define that, which is so constructed and so much used to exclude whoever is "bad" in popular right-wing myth right now that it's meaningless.
― Orson Wellies (in orbit), Thursday, 10 July 2014 13:16 (nine years ago) link
For the American market, I mean, obv.
― Orson Wellies (in orbit), Thursday, 10 July 2014 13:19 (nine years ago) link
-as if no one has "ethnicity" except ppl who aren't mainstream white America,
It was someone in the UK using "people of ethnicity"
― relentlessly pecking at peace (President Keyes), Thursday, 10 July 2014 13:44 (nine years ago) link
Oh well that's completely different then
― Star Gentle Uterus (DJP), Thursday, 10 July 2014 13:47 (nine years ago) link
POC works where other terms don't (non-white, minority) because the other terms center whiteness as the norm. "minority" also doesnt work from a simple mathematical standpoint because POC are the majority of the people on the planet. people of color works better than colored people because of its person-first language (compare with 'people with disabilities' and 'disabled people'). descriptive without being restrictive.
― it's not a fedora, it's a trill bae (m bison), Thursday, 10 July 2014 13:49 (nine years ago) link
"People of ethnicity" is not a term used in the UK. The usual phrase is "BME people".
― Eyeball Kicks, Thursday, 10 July 2014 14:26 (nine years ago) link
I'm with orbit about "it's not really my say," but the phrase is still centering whiteness as the norm since what it's really saying is "persons of color other than white."
― pplains, Thursday, 10 July 2014 14:30 (nine years ago) link
- "So great to be here in Nigeria. Just look at all these people of color."
- "You know, we just call ourselves 'people' here. Perhaps it is you with the peachy pink hues that's so colorful."
- "Yes. Together we make quite the rainbow."
- "Rainbow? If you ever see a pink and brown rainbow in the sky, you'd better get a gas mask."
― pplains, Thursday, 10 July 2014 14:36 (nine years ago) link
google results for "BME people" are all for biomedical engineering depts.
― Orson Wellies (in orbit), Thursday, 10 July 2014 14:37 (nine years ago) link
I have no idea what BME stands for <------ so says an actual British person
― Tommy McTommy (Tom D.), Thursday, 10 July 2014 14:39 (nine years ago) link
I gotta BME
― Look at this joke I've recognised, do you recognise it as well? (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 10 July 2014 14:44 (nine years ago) link
Black / Minority Ethnic.
― Wristy Hurlington (ShariVari), Thursday, 10 July 2014 14:45 (nine years ago) link
all these terms are primarily useful in societies/institutions/environments that are dominated by white ppl, it's never going to be a general term bc most of the world has little use for a concept of 'non-white ppl in general' however its phrased
― ogmor, Thursday, 10 July 2014 14:46 (nine years ago) link
ah yeah, we'd probably use it more in phrases like "BME families", "BME communities" etc.
― Eyeball Kicks, Thursday, 10 July 2014 14:46 (nine years ago) link
Does BME include Irish?
― Tommy McTommy (Tom D.), Thursday, 10 July 2014 14:48 (nine years ago) link
Not usually.
― Eyeball Kicks, Thursday, 10 July 2014 14:50 (nine years ago) link
Well I was joking but being Irish is usually a category on its own when filling out Equal Opportunity forms.
― Tommy McTommy (Tom D.), Thursday, 10 July 2014 14:53 (nine years ago) link
LOL UK amirite?
― Tommy McTommy (Tom D.), Thursday, 10 July 2014 14:54 (nine years ago) link
xpost dunno but it did sign Chyna Whyte
― relentlessly pecking at peace (President Keyes), Thursday, 10 July 2014 14:54 (nine years ago) link
Sometimes Irish are listed as BME. Depends on circumstances.
― Wristy Hurlington (ShariVari), Thursday, 10 July 2014 14:55 (nine years ago) link
Think there's probably residual admiration for Germany too pouring over from admiration for German brands too
Probably a racial component too, Germany happens to be the 'right kind if white' but IDK if it'd be articulated in that way
Idk, I can ask my cousin - she's a big fan of Germany
― 龜, Thursday, 10 July 2014 14:45 (10 minutes ago) Permalink
― conrad, Thursday, 10 July 2014 14:56 (nine years ago) link
pplains otm. I mean I don't waste time objecting to the term because I don't think derailing conversations about race is valuable unless that's your sole aim, just seemed worth mentioning cause ppl were talking about how terrible p.o.ethnicity is, and I don't see that this phrase frames whiteness as the default any less. but I don't use it & nor does anyone I know. Lots of ppl doing important work like the term, fine, I find it awkward & mealy-mouthed. As long as nobody's saying that activists necessarily get the final say on how everyone should feel about these terms, it's not really a thing.
Lots of xps
― when there's no more room in heㄥㄥ the thread will walk the earth (wins), Thursday, 10 July 2014 15:10 (nine years ago) link
interesting that "POC" came into wide american usage thru fanon, but i don't think he's the originator of the term -- iirc (dimly) it's a french coinage from its own colonial times -- meant as a catch-all term for the varieties of people descended from both french and africans
but tbh i'm getting this from this book: http://www.tomreiss.com/node/18 and it's only touched upon glancingly in the explicit connection. he uses "people of color" because it's the term extant in all the legal documents from the era
― goole, Thursday, 10 July 2014 16:03 (nine years ago) link
I'm glad we can all agree that the real problem is activists telling people how to feel a way.
― Orson Wellies (in orbit), Thursday, 10 July 2014 16:57 (nine years ago) link
An HR person in the UK used it when talking specifically about 'diversity awareness training' and it jarred. I was wondering if this was the new POC, which to me as a Brit does sound odd on its own but as IO says, it seems to have been widely accepted so who am I to object.
― kinder, Thursday, 10 July 2014 18:23 (nine years ago) link
NME people?
― how's life, Thursday, 10 July 2014 18:26 (nine years ago) link
― Orson Wellies (in orbit), Thursday, July 10, 2014 5:57 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah don't be a d*ck
― when there's no more room in heㄥㄥ the thread will walk the earth (wins), Thursday, 10 July 2014 22:28 (nine years ago) link
or ok I guess I phrased it badly, sorry
this is a verrrry unperfect phrase being used to describe a giant fucking mass of people, I was saying that when some of them feel a bit iffy about that phrase then it'd be uncool to argue "well these people like it so nobody gets to argue" and then acknowledged that prob nobody itt was making that argument
― when there's no more room in heㄥㄥ the thread will walk the earth (wins), Thursday, 10 July 2014 22:31 (nine years ago) link
When I was younger a lot of older australians called migrants "ethnics", fwiw. The other quaint old phrase boomers used was "new Australians".
― the Bronski Review (Trayce), Friday, 11 July 2014 04:21 (nine years ago) link
― 龜, Thursday, July 10, 2014 11:26 AM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
more like an activist/non-activist divide ime. i still dislike "POC" but end up using it for the sake of convenience these days. instinctively prefer "non-white" because yeah, it centres whiteness, but it also reminds us that whiteness is centred anyway, and whiteness being centred is the reason disparate non-white ethnicities have any reason to be lumped together at all.
"BME" in the uk is more the language of non-offensive officialdom than common parlance.
― lex pretend, Saturday, 12 July 2014 14:54 (nine years ago) link