rolling "Is This Racist?" thread

I just saw a blackpeoplemeet.com commercial, figured there had to be a whitepeoplemeet parody, and OH NOES

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwl2y-1SJ2c

Was in a 4th of July parade yesterday. The group beyond us was the Sons of Confederate Veterans. Their bagpipe player played a rendition of Hava Negila. Didn't know what to make of that.

Rolling Stone just had an article about Texas and the gun nuts who live there. One of the Jewish participants of a gun rally drops Judah Benjamin's name and I guess stands back to give the New York reporter plenty of space to beg forgiveness.

Is 'people of ethnicity' an actual term? I am in the UK and someone has used this in talking about 'diversity awareness' training and it sounds like a dressed-up version of 'those ethnics'.

Yeah that's terrible. It's like saying you're only "a race" if you're not white, as if whiteness is the default/neutral from which all else diverges.

A fb friend of mine who is black who I talk about music with a lot got a little insulted that I posted a led zeppelin song on his feed (I knew he didn't generally like them and I was curious to see if he would like The Wanton Song in light of other stuff he likes) -- he said he finds them "almost racist." I hadn't really thought of them that way before in spite of everything I know about their stealing from blues artists etc. etc., yet it sort of seemed obvious why someone could feel that way once he said it -- there's definitely something minstrely about their antics. Then again, that probably applies to like half of rock music up to a certain point in time.

xp Right? My o/h was really taken aback by it but the rest of the email is all about how they've undergone training and built a bespoke training package for staff etc so I wondered if I'd missed something.

There is a fair chance that they have mixed up the terms 'people of colour' and 'minority ethnicity' in their heads , I'd have thought.

Someone should maybe point that out to them and see if they respond.

I would not expect a coherent response but really want him to do so...

there's definitely something minstrely about their antics.

Robert Plant using the term "spook music" in a tv interview a few years ago didn't help.

well now I am humming that to the tune of "Antmusic" and fuck everything forever

Is 'people of ethnicity' an actual term? I am in the UK and someone has used this in talking about 'diversity awareness' training and it sounds like a dressed-up version of 'those ethnics'.

― kinder, Tuesday, 8 July 2014 22:29 (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah that's terrible. It's like saying you're only "a race" if you're not white, as if whiteness is the default/neutral from which all else diverges.

― Orson Wellies (in orbit), Tuesday, 8 July 2014 22:46 (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"people of colour" sounds like this to me too actually

It's like a it's like someone started to say "coloured people" and then caught themselves & lamely tried to save it

It's like a

The term "people of color" always makes me want to start using the term "colorless people."

i bet

I don't see color, ability or gender. I just see translucent bubbles floating toward me on the sidewalk.

People are much easier to pop when you look at them like that.

one of the most prominent anti-systemic racism/sj orgs in pdx is called the coalition of communities of color, and they use the term "people of color" a lot in their work... ie: "there's an 80% unemployment rate amongst people of color", etc.

initially i reacted very similarly to the posters itt when i heard the way the org used the term, but ime they are pretty damn progressive both in ethos and in the way they redefine census categories to reach more nuanced definitions of race and ethnicity (particularly wrt slavic or middle eastern or african communities, which are difficult to study using normal census categories). clearly they are supported by funds/foundations so it's difficult to say who exactly chose to use the term or who self-identifies as such, but it does seem to be embraced by all sorts of folks involved in this type of work - i'm not sure if that's necessarily a valid defense of the term, but i'm certainly more than willing to defer to others with considerably more expertise

this term has been in use since the mid-90s

I first encountered it in college, ethnic studies depts etc

Some comic from around that time - or maybe it was a Bill Hicks routine or something - featuring the wacky "So yes, I'm working with persons of color" ... "You mean.... colored people then." "NO! THAT'S NOT WHAT I SAID!", etc.

It was edgy. Extreme and out there, dudes.

Daily Telegraph blogger and commentator Toby Young wrote: "In his defence, Hansen could cite the fact that America's foremost civil rights group is the NAACP which stands for the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. If it's acceptable for the NAACP to use the word "coloured", why isn't it acceptable for him?"[28]

Hansen issued an apology the following day, saying "'I unreservedly apologise for any offence caused – this was never my intention and I deeply regret the use of the word."[29][30]

xps used way before the mid-90s, no?

oh yeah, People of Color (POC) is a widely used term. I haven't heard "People of Ethnicity" before, but I imagine its an expansion to cover white people from other countries.

good ol Fanon

Influenced by radical theorists like Frantz Fanon, racial justice activists in the U.S. began to use the term people of color in the late 1970s and early 1980s.

Daily Telegraph blogger and commentator Toby Young wrote: "In his defence, Hansen could cite the fact that America's foremost civil rights group is the NAACP which stands for the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. If it's acceptable for the NAACP to use the word "coloured", why isn't it acceptable for him?"[28]

Hansen issued an apology the following day, saying "'I unreservedly apologise for any offence caused – this was never my intention and I deeply regret the use of the word."[29][30]

Hansen correctly assuming that if Toby Young is on your side you must be behaving like a cunt.

I am aware this term is a thing btw, and it still sounds weird and hedgy to me

Wonder if it's a uk/us divide - iirc lex is not too happy w the term either

I don't have thoughts re "people/person of color" because I feel like it's none of my business to affirm or object--I'll do what I'm told. The term is widely used among progressive, anti-racist, anti-oppression movement people and groups. Which doesn't mean I think it shouldn't still be scrutinized, but afaict it's not seen as problematic by any/most.

Porting that construction over to ethnicity seems like a thuddishly poor choice though--as if no one has "ethnicity" except ppl who aren't mainstream white America, whatever that means and whoever gets to define that, which is so constructed and so much used to exclude whoever is "bad" in popular right-wing myth right now that it's meaningless.

For the American market, I mean, obv.

-as if no one has "ethnicity" except ppl who aren't mainstream white America,

It was someone in the UK using "people of ethnicity"

Oh well that's completely different then

POC works where other terms don't (non-white, minority) because the other terms center whiteness as the norm. "minority" also doesnt work from a simple mathematical standpoint because POC are the majority of the people on the planet. people of color works better than colored people because of its person-first language (compare with 'people with disabilities' and 'disabled people'). descriptive without being restrictive.

"People of ethnicity" is not a term used in the UK. The usual phrase is "BME people".

I'm with orbit about "it's not really my say," but the phrase is still centering whiteness as the norm since what it's really saying is "persons of color other than white."

- "So great to be here in Nigeria. Just look at all these people of color."

- "You know, we just call ourselves 'people' here. Perhaps it is you with the peachy pink hues that's so colorful."

- "Yes. Together we make quite the rainbow."

- "Rainbow? If you ever see a pink and brown rainbow in the sky, you'd better get a gas mask."

google results for "BME people" are all for biomedical engineering depts.

I have no idea what BME stands for <------ so says an actual British person

I gotta BME

Black / Minority Ethnic.

all these terms are primarily useful in societies/institutions/environments that are dominated by white ppl, it's never going to be a general term bc most of the world has little use for a concept of 'non-white ppl in general' however its phrased

google results for "BME people" are all for biomedical engineering depts.

ah yeah, we'd probably use it more in phrases like "BME families", "BME communities" etc.

Does BME include Irish?

Not usually.

Well I was joking but being Irish is usually a category on its own when filling out Equal Opportunity forms.

LOL UK amirite?

xpost dunno but it did sign Chyna Whyte

Sometimes Irish are listed as BME. Depends on circumstances.

Think there's probably residual admiration for Germany too pouring over from admiration for German brands too

Probably a racial component too, Germany happens to be the 'right kind if white' but IDK if it'd be articulated in that way

Idk, I can ask my cousin - she's a big fan of Germany

― 龜, Thursday, 10 July 2014 14:45 (10 minutes ago) Permalink