d'angelo - voodoo - classic or dud?

there was some discussion on the other d'angelo thread...idk, i didn't find this super revelatory but i've been reading everything i can about about the dude for awhile. it's so bitter...like, if D had given him a proper thank you, would he no longer be a 'charlatan and a pimp'?

It seems more than that, doesn't it? Like, this guy was key to giving the guy his career, but also the implication is that in his absence D'Angelo's reputation as some sort of reclusive genius has only increased, yet this dude basically calls that out as a ruse, and that D absolutely needs someone around him providing direction and guidance to write or write well and actual produce. So that ties in with his resentment as one of those folks absolutely (allegedly) essential to D'Angelo and yet absent from the story. The thing is, D'Angelo's songs themselves aren't terribly earth shattering, are they? It's really the whole package, from production to approach. Frankly, I could imagine putting, say, ?uestlove and Pino Palladino in a room together with only the sketchiest of a song idea and getting something awesome out of it by the end of the day. By turning his back on all the people who helped him, D'Angelo makes it seem like he's the reclusive mastermind rather than the holdup. The lesson I got from this missive/rant is basically: this is what happens when you turn your back on all the people who helped you.

The dude made it sound like he was the only one who really helped D. The rant would have been more effective without the disses of Nelson George and others, and all the sanctimonious self-praise and bitterness.

Oh, absolutely, but it sounds like he was pretty essential, and iirc, it ends with basically D'Angelo asking him for help again after years of blowing him off and then going back to ignoring him again. Basically the behavior of an addict, really, and also par for the course from an act; the comments are illustrative in this case, basically saying you shouldn't be in this for thanks and credit. Then again, it's been 15 years between albums, so clearly something is missing from the equation when even the ace, dogged direction of ?uestlove can't get results.

if anything Gary Harris doesn't take as much credit or discredit D'Angelo as much as he could've in that post. he was the person who put D in the studio with Raphael Saadiq, who co-wrote the biggest singles on BOTH of D's albums, which is something that always made me kind of look askance at D's songwriting abilities.

i'm totally comfortable placing his genius in interpretation/performance/style/production rather than songwriting.

it doesn't take a psychiatrist to sense bad blood in that essay. without an unbiased appraisal, i'm taking it with a grain of salt. Looks like a good jumping off point for an article about the powers that brought D'Angelo to prominence and have continued to keep him levitating through this extended (and apparently self-abusive) fallow period... there's a few people in this thread who should have a go at that piece!

also the whole penultimate paragraph about dissing d'angelo's lack of 'funk' makes me think that he's a little deaf to what makes 'voodoo' special. sure, the saadiq single + sexy video blew it up in the first place, but that's not why it's continued to find a new audience over the last ~14 years.

i think its a direct response to stuff that was discussed in the recent RBMA/NPR thing too tho

re: "funk"

also the whole penultimate paragraph about dissing d'angelo's lack of 'funk' makes me think that he's a little deaf to what makes 'voodoo' special. sure, the saadiq single + sexy video blew it up in the first place, but that's not why it's continued to find a new audience over the last ~14 years.

― festival culture (Jordan), Wednesday, May 28, 2014 11:33 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

isn't he arguing that d'angelo isn't responsible for that part of the record, not that his albums lack it altogether

it seems pretty evident to me that d'angelo's albums were always collaborative efforts. that's the soulquarians era ... obviously though he brought something to the table or itd be electric circus lol

wasn't D "yoda" in that round table?

didn't D produce & play almost everything on 'brown sugar' himself? and yeah, voodoo is definitely the ultimate result of that collaborative era/space, but i don't think that takes anything away from him. i've read a lot about D writing all the basslines for pino, nudging the grooves around in Pro Tools to get the feel just right (although i can't find confirmation of that right now), and basically being involved in every aspect.

but i'm also sure that he needs people to push him in just the right fashion and is probably a nightmare to work with in any sort of conventional, professional way.

do we have anything approaching an actual reason that the album is not out beyond "D is kinda crazy"? Did George seriously not ask when the album was due? If so, that omission had to be some sort of contractual stipulation for the conversation to take place.

^my assumption as well

I assume that when this album eventually comes out it will be some Chinese Democracy-style trainwreck. if it ever comes out. nothing that gestates this long is ever any good (I certainly can't think of any precedents)

probably only going to get a posthumous release

Jordan: your assumption on the former, the latter or both?
Shakey, I disagree: the new songs i heard from d'angelo from the brooklyn bowl show sounded pretty dang good to me. my guess is that his label needs reassurance that D's mental state to a place where he can tour before they release the album and that's the hold up.

this discussion is getting kinda rockist fwiw

from what i understand the songwriting process for 'voodoo' was a bunch of people in a room jamming off of prince or sly or soul train until they came up with workable bits that then were molded into songs? i could be misremembering/projecting

it no doubt seemed collaborative but who cares? what does that take away from the music or even his legend, i don't get it.

Jordan: your assumption on the former, the latter or both?

the latter. although i've also wondered the same thing about the label waiting for not just the record but a full promo campaign, i know people who were on the recent tours and uh yeah.

from what i understand the songwriting process for 'voodoo' was a bunch of people in a room jamming off of prince or sly or soul train until they came up with workable bits that then were molded into songs?

that happened too from what i understand. seems like it was one approach among many (solo writing, co-writing, jamming, working with dilla & premier, etc).

i've always kinda assumed that he has tons of really good stuff finished for album 3 and it's just personal setbacks/insecurities keeping him from mixing it all down and sending it to the label.

i don't think it takes anything away from his talent that he's gotten help from a lot of people, every big star has gotten help from a lot of people, even the total inarguable geniuses. but it seems like he's sheltered himself in his golden boy aura for so long that it was just a matter of time before someone he never gave much public credit to decided to pull his card.

btw i played a show at the Brooklyn Bowl the other night and near the end i had this (silly) moment of "oh shit, this is right where D'Angelo was on this stage." :)

sure but that myth isn't really self-created, it's been built up by a lot of respected -- often important -- people. so maybe gary harris is kinda just a jealous asshole?

ime the music industry (on every level) is composed almost entirely out of people who are angry that their contributions have been underappreciated. from intern to frontman, logo designer to journalist, caterer to AR, publicist to programmer; thus has it always been forever and ever amen

tbf questlove is a class-A Rockist

I'm cool with D'Angelo as a vocal genius almost on par with Prince, as far as singing and arranging goes. But musically, he's no Prince, which is why he needs to lean on so many others. But that's cool, that's how a lot of music is made. Zeppelin songs are credited Page/Plant, by and large, but no way would I credit anything that band did to just those two. So it goes.

also the whole penultimate paragraph about dissing d'angelo's lack of 'funk' makes me think that he's a little deaf to what makes 'voodoo' special. sure, the saadiq single + sexy video blew it up in the first place, but that's not why it's continued to find a new audience over the last ~14 years.

― festival culture (Jordan), Wednesday, May 28, 2014 9:33 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Word. When I read that paragraph I was like "this makes sense if you've only heard Brown Sugar"

Has a single song ever sunk an otherwise 'perfect 10' album like "Left & Right?" Lordy, what a vibe-annihilator.

uhhh, can't get with this at all. do you just mean Meth & Red? because it's one of my favorite grooves on the record.

I very much dislike Left & Right. Coincidentally, shuffle spit this album up yesterday, and I was loving it so much, especially after so much Black Messiah, and then it hit L&R, and I gonged it pretty soon in.

But yeah, I assume he (as do I) mean Meth & Red mess it up. The groove is impeccable.

iirc D himself wasn't too enthused about their input (and tried to replace them with Q-Tip but was even less satisfied with his efforts), but whatever it's not a dealbreaker

L&R is the only D'Angelo acapellas i've found (which is probably why james blake remixed it), but it's amazing to hear his isolated harmonies.

nah, left and right is still one of his funkiest songs. its also especially good live, or at least it was in 2000.

uhhh, can't get with this at all. do you just mean Meth & Red? because it's one of my favorite grooves on the record.

― virtuoso thigh slapper (Jordan), Saturday, December 20, 2014 12:44 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, delete the bobbsey twins and it's totally redeemed imo. But as it is, it's the only track I skip.

btw I am a fan of both MCs but both were well past their prime by this point

I have a soft spot for left and right for some reason

Always thought this was a great use of d'angelos voice

http://youtu.be/Z7ErWMKlM3I

That was the only full versh of that track I could find plz ignore the hprrible student film

Omg I just watched the whole thing

meth & red are great on "left and right" any other opinion is objectively wrong

I look back at this thread and can't believe I still missed this record in 2011. Granted, I didn't actually pick it up until a coupla years before that after having it on my list for maybe half a decade, but it sure feels like Voodoo clicked with me more than three years ago. One of the pleasures of listening is that some of the best records can sneak up on you like that, and then, holy shit, so that's what everybody was talking about. I think digging into Dilla's oeuvre helped, too - at some point you come to the realization of just how epochal it was for these guys to actually devise a new way to swing, 2 decades after "Rapper's Delight" no less. But that realization isn't just academic - it actually changes the way you hear rhythm, until you wonder how you ever heard the asymmetrical lope of, say, "The Root," as anything but funkier than shit. Once you learn to listen to D's music on its own terms, I don't think you leave that headspace - the new one took about two listens to click.

Yeah, it clicked for me a few years earlier but I had a similar experience with Voodoo. It took me years to wrap my head around it. I'm pretty sure there's some thread here with me going into detail about why it's so overrated but now it's probably one of my top 5 albums ever.

btw I am a fan of both MCs but both were well past their prime by this point

― Jimmywine Dyspeptic, Saturday, December 20, 2014 5:11 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"Left & Right" single dropped weeks after Blackout!, which is basically a classic (albeit the last classic either of them would make). the song has a bit of a sore thumb quality in the context of the album, though, i go back and forth about how much i like it.

xp Great post, Futuristic.

some dude, I'm one of those guys who believes Red never lived up to his potential. You'd have thought after the Hit Squad posse cuts and the singles from Whut...Thee Album that dude was on his way to legendary status (see also: Jeru). Maybe he was never gonna be a Rakim or a Nas or a Biggie, but he was definitely primed to be part of that conversation. At least that's how it seemed back then.

Meth lost me at Tical. That's ground zero for the clownish personality he's cultivated ever since. I don't know, some people watch Seinfeld for Kramer though, what do I know.

yeah they both had kind of already changed the tone from their earlier careers at that point. i just think Blackout! is great for what it is.

Redman's career is so many lightyears beyond jeru's! I realize that wasn't the point but it needed saying.

Blackout is really fun. Def a personal classic

redman was basically dope from 1990-2000, not too many dudes can spin off a decade of consistent work, if anything i think his rep is underrated now

but he was also huge when i was in high school, like if you were a head or if you were a pop fan he was a big deal

Yeah otm