Dontrelle Willis. . .

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (293 of them)
oh, shit, he didn't tell me you guys were going together. fuck.

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 15 June 2005 00:06 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah, it was good to see him again! I don't think I'd even seen him, let alone hung out with him, for about a year and a half or so...

Stormy Davis (diamond), Wednesday, 15 June 2005 00:10 (eighteen years ago) link

Dontrelle's doing his 2003 impression again:
	ERA	WHIP	BAA	K/9
 April 1.29 0.83 .189 6.43
 May 2.06 1.23 .250 8.23
 June 3.32 1.34 .306 5.94

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 15 June 2005 16:01 (eighteen years ago) link

His last game was still pretty nice.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 15 June 2005 16:14 (eighteen years ago) link

and gygax is doing his 2004 impression! i still don't see any pattern dude.

John (jdahlem), Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:12 (eighteen years ago) link

Hot start followed by gradual increase in WHIP & BAA, and a decrease in K/9 is the pattern. Of course, given how ridiculous D-Train's performance has been, he was bound to come back to earth. Even Barry Bonds slumps!

If he keeps up that WHIP & BAA, tho, his ERA's gonna be higher than 3.32.

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:24 (eighteen years ago) link

i'll give you "hot start"


keep in mind we're only talking abt 3 starts there dave, and this is a guy who's only given up 2 hrs all season.

as far as i can tell, he's a guy who's gotten off to 3 lighting starts, then pitched very well over a couple rough patches for the remainder of the season.

also arbitrary stat that's biased very much in my favor but illustrates my point nonetheless: in 03&04 he had 3 months w/ an era under 3.00 after june, 1 month before. (that was actually june 2003)

John (jdahlem), Wednesday, 15 June 2005 17:40 (eighteen years ago) link

Hey gygax! why ain't you giving us da rest of his June stats!?!?

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 24 June 2005 00:43 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh I'll do it:


	ERA	WHIP	BAA	K/9
 April 1.29 0.83 .189 6.43
 May 2.06 1.23 .250 8.23
 June 1.91 1.23 .273 6.04

And another complete game shutout. And one run over his last 23 innings.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 24 June 2005 15:23 (eighteen years ago) link

Be sure to revive this around September Alex, increasing BAA and decliinng K/9 are not good trends!

Dontrelle Willis Career ERA:
Pre-Allstar 2.64
Post-Allstar 4.30

gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 24 June 2005 15:30 (eighteen years ago) link

Well, his "career" consists of 2.5 seasons, so you can only put so much stock in pre/post All-Star break splits. His April 2005 was just too dominant -- no pitcher could expect to maintain that performance. The .273 BAA and 1.23 WHIP looks like the "real" Dontrelle Willis, and sooner or later his ERA will catch up to that.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Friday, 24 June 2005 15:41 (eighteen years ago) link

but ITS NOT FATIGUE GOD DAMMIT. it's regression to the mean. he's not a 1.75 era pitcher or a 2.00 pitcher or a 2.50 era pitcher, and his peripherals this year indicate he's over his head by a decent amount. but he'll finish the year with a ~/-3.00 era and we'll hear once again about how he's a "fader" and "the leg kick takes too much energy" (????????) etc etc.

and that pre/post all-star split everyone just loves to throw around is pretty much entirely a result of his first season; in fact, he you could easily argue he pitched BETTER in the second half last year.

John (jdahlem), Friday, 24 June 2005 15:50 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't think it's regression so much as:

A) He's a proven quick starter
B) He pitches in a pitchers' park (#5 in the league according to ESPN's ballpark adjustments)
C) His hot start can be easily attributed to 9 of his first 10 starts taking place in the top 5 rated pitchers' parks.
D) 4.08 LUCK

He's a great pitcher and he's improved quite a bit in a couple key areas (pitches/batter faced, groundballs vs. flyballs) but just wait until he goes out on the road some more*.

*unless that's what you're referring to as "regression".

gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 24 June 2005 16:06 (eighteen years ago) link

Example of conversation with gygax! about Willis:

Me: Wow he's pitching great!
Gyg: He's pitching at home soon he'll come back to reality.

Me (couple of weeks later): He's still pitching pretty great!
Gyg: Yeah, but he'll come back to reality soon enough.

Gyg (pointing at mid-June stats): Look he's totally fucking up!

Me (at ACTUAL end of June): Um no he still looks pretty good.
Gyg: Yeah, but he'll fuck after the All Star break. He always does.

What do you have against the guy? I can't imagine anyone I'd rather see doing well than Willis. He's pure likeability!

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 24 June 2005 16:07 (eighteen years ago) link

it's interesting to note that DW on the road this year is 5-1 with an ERA of 1.88!

Gear! (Ill Cajun Gunsmith) (Gear!), Friday, 24 June 2005 16:12 (eighteen years ago) link

i more or less agree w/ that gygax, tho you should note that espn's park factors are pretty much worthless.

John (jdahlem), Friday, 24 June 2005 16:25 (eighteen years ago) link

I've seen in person every appearances he's pitched in SF (including the 2003 playoffs) and he never really impressed me in those eyewitness encounters (0-4?, but to his credit perhaps due to the fact that his family was watching but wait no, his mom was always there!!!). I've always felt he was completely over-hyped... especially when he won ROY over Brandon Webb even in spite of his rookie season felling apart, losing his spot in the rotation (all the while Webb continued to dominate and outperform him), and Dontrelle is still over-hyped to a similar extent.

I realize there is a touchy significance behind the marketing of Dontrelle as he is one of the few young black american stars in the game while there is a true void in that which used to be plentiful and famously-celebrated. That spin may be at work and I respect that but I'm skeptical about the concept of affirmitive active marketing in baseball, a sport recognized today in its racial diversity.

xpost to Gear!: yeah! including starts in such cozy spots such as Dodger Stadium and RFK which are the #3 and #1 pitchers' parks according to ballpark adjustments.

gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 24 June 2005 16:26 (eighteen years ago) link

dude he's got an electrifying mound presence, an incredibly engaging personality, and real or not, a 1.75 era. he's not overhyped in the least. (his rookie year is another matter)

and do you seriously not think it's vitally important to market young black ballplayers?

John (jdahlem), Friday, 24 June 2005 16:34 (eighteen years ago) link

He did pretty good @ Atlanta last night!

Gear! (Ill Cajun Gunsmith) (Gear!), Friday, 24 June 2005 16:38 (eighteen years ago) link

John OTM. Gygax being weird. That said the ROY vote thing was weird, but I don't blame Willis for that. He didn't get a vote ya know.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 24 June 2005 16:39 (eighteen years ago) link

Like I said above, I respect the importance of the concept but I'm skeptical of the trickle-down marketing spin (esp. vs. community-based grass-roots leagues, park and rec $$$, etc.).

gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 24 June 2005 16:40 (eighteen years ago) link

Did you ever see Like Mike, gygax!?

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 24 June 2005 16:43 (eighteen years ago) link

Nope.

gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 24 June 2005 16:45 (eighteen years ago) link

BTW I wish the stuff gygax! talked about were more prevalent too (I also don't underestimate the importants of having likeable role models.) I read somewhere that Kevin Brown donated a million dollars to set up baseball leagues in primarily African-American parts of LA and I've always really respected him for that (despite his playing for the Yanks--although he's playing BADLY for them so maybe I should respect him for that too haha.)

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 24 June 2005 16:46 (eighteen years ago) link

Hasn't Willis been giving Mark Wiley (Marlins pitching coach) a lot of credit, though, for fine-tuning his delivery in spring training and teaching him not to overthrow?

I remember that being a problem for Willis last year - he was telegraphing pitches, pitching really erratically out of the stretch, and having a hard time stranding runners. I realize his 2005 HR rate is a huge outlier, but his BABIP isn't - and his K/BB and G/F ratios are certainly improving.

I'm probably biased, since he's the only thing keeping my pitching staff afloat at this point, but I just don't think he's gonna come crashing down to 2004 levels anytime soon.

Daniel Cohen (dayan), Friday, 24 June 2005 18:21 (eighteen years ago) link

there's clearly substantial improvement (his k/bb and g/f as you said), but obv he can't maintain at this pace, and unfortunately when he does regress it'll just be more fodder for his naysayers. otoh he could easily finish w/ 20 wins and/or an era under 3, which should be enough to shut just about anyone up.

meanwhile webb is looking like a super-lowe. 4.26 g/f (!!) and nearly 7 k's/9ip.

John (jdahlem), Friday, 24 June 2005 19:09 (eighteen years ago) link

whoa

Gear! (Ill Cajun Gunsmith) (Gear!), Sunday, 3 July 2005 18:35 (eighteen years ago) link

still absolutely no chance he starts the AS game w/ la russa managing. : (


at the same time, carpenter kinda deserves the attention.

John (jdahlem), Sunday, 3 July 2005 18:42 (eighteen years ago) link

I love this man.

Daniel Cohen (dayan), Sunday, 3 July 2005 18:55 (eighteen years ago) link

Fifth complete game, fourth shutout. Zoinks!!

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Sunday, 3 July 2005 20:48 (eighteen years ago) link

Clemens still deserves the start. (plus we'd get to see Piazza tip the hitters agin...)

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 12:39 (eighteen years ago) link

THIS TIME IT COUNTS

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 12:39 (eighteen years ago) link

woah, I think John was right about regression.

gygax! (gygax!), Saturday, 9 July 2005 17:31 (eighteen years ago) link

There are only 5 african-american starting pitchers in MLB.

gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 11 July 2005 22:42 (eighteen years ago) link

Doc Gooden: Now more than ever

Jimmy Mod Is Sick of Being The Best At Everything (ModJ), Monday, 11 July 2005 22:51 (eighteen years ago) link

Willis' Friday night thumping enabled LaRussa to make Carpenter a future trivia answer (clearly a Clemens-Piazza reunion was never in the [C]ards)...

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 12 July 2005 13:33 (eighteen years ago) link

Month ERA  WHIP
April 1.29 0.83
May 2.06 1.23
June 2.62 1.30
July 7.58 1.37

gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 19 July 2005 16:01 (eighteen years ago) link

Alex what are you doing on Saturday?

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 17:34 (eighteen years ago) link

hahaha you sure that's a good idea?

John (jdahlem), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 17:40 (eighteen years ago) link

"Alex what are you doing on Saturday?"

Hahaha I'm sorry. I would totally do this, but it's an evening game and I can't swing it.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 21:42 (eighteen years ago) link

oh shit, i totally thought it was a daygame! nevermind. :-D

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 20 July 2005 22:07 (eighteen years ago) link

He pitched on Friday anyway. And got shelled. For the fourth time this month (his one quality start was a complete game shutout of the Mets.) So here is where we speculate what happens to Dontrelle Willis' head post-All Star break, cuz clearly this is time this is not a regression to the mean or park-related or any bullshit like that. He's completely falling apart. Is it mental? Mechanical? Physical? Whatever it is it's weird and pretty sad.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Sunday, 24 July 2005 17:49 (eighteen years ago) link

his ERA is well over 3 now. looks like the Cy Young is gonna come down to Carpenter and Clemens.

gear (gear), Sunday, 24 July 2005 18:05 (eighteen years ago) link

*Cough* Martinez *cough*

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Sunday, 24 July 2005 18:07 (eighteen years ago) link

and him!

gear (gear), Sunday, 24 July 2005 19:06 (eighteen years ago) link

i was told pedro didn't even hit 90 in his last start.

willis has totally gone to shit. maybe it is fatigue!

John (jdahlem), Monday, 25 July 2005 01:03 (eighteen years ago) link

For some reason, the Giants own Donrelle. He is now 0-6 lifetime versus SF (including postseason). He's from nearby Alameda (right next to Oakland) so maybe it's a homecoming thing.

gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 25 July 2005 15:29 (eighteen years ago) link

Willis is now 7th among NL pitchers in VORP (Patterson is 6th). Could fatigue related to the wacky motion be a second-half factor?

If Clemens continue to perform as he has, I don't care who wins the NL Cy; anyone with eyes will know who the best pitcher was. Considering the era (as well as the ERA), he's threatening to better Gibson in '68, at age 43 to Bob G's 32.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 25 July 2005 15:48 (eighteen years ago) link

i think it's far more likely that he fucks up his mechanics in some way, which seems really easy to do w/ such a complex windup. i mean, big windups were typical back when dudes routinely threw 300+ innings a year, right?

John (jdahlem), Monday, 25 July 2005 15:55 (eighteen years ago) link

either that or he hits some kind of mo rivera-ish annual dead arm period for a few starts.

John (jdahlem), Monday, 25 July 2005 15:57 (eighteen years ago) link

and tonight he's back! (technical difficulties)

pandit pran nathalie (sanskrit), Wednesday, 28 October 2015 01:20 (eight years ago) link


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.