The Stone Roses - Classic or Dud? And also, Search and Destroy?

they are the late 80s version of CSNY for sure.

david- now go and put a good rec on: like big black's 'Steelworker'.

There's a difference between hearing something and deciding that it shows an understanding of how someone on E/whatever drug appreciates music, and being able to decide that something was made while the person was fucked.

For your claim to be true about any single genre in the world, everyone would have to hear things in the same way you do. Is that the case?

Whether something "sounds like it was made on E", "sounds like the Velvet Underground", or "sounds like metallica getting fucked in a blender" depends on who's listening.

Also the fact that being on E, for example, makes pretty much anything pleasurable means that "they made this on e" or "they made this for people on E" pretty meaningless. Of course I can say, as I have "Orbital is the perfect music for being on Ecstacy" and lots of people might agree, but only really because they like Orbital anyway.

The point I'm making is, any artist whose aspiration was "to make music for people on E" hasn't set his heights very high, in fact has no sights at all. Just because an artist wanting to make the perfect dance song or almost any type of dance song is going to end up appealing to people on E anyway this doesn't mean this has to be part of his intentions.

You're just working backwards from fans to producers.

And while it IS true that lots of happy hardcore people did do E (99 percent probably) it's impossible to say that based solely on their music and comments like "god they were fucked when they wrote this" I bet are only based on people's preconceptions and the stereotypes which surround a particular scene eg rock/hash dance/e etc etc etc etc.

You can hear drugs in music? Bullshit, you can make an interpretation based on all sorts of things periphery to the music, but that's all it is. And since there's a MILLION other factors which make someone write a song (it's a thought process, try and fucking quantify it we'll be here all day) it's worth nothing and can never be wholly proven.

Well, all it's worth is a discussion about whether the band were "so baked" or weren't "so baked" and since I'm not in college for the summer I'd rather not fucking go there.

I will say I think you'd have to do a fucking stupid amount of drugs to start thinking they were needed for anyone to like some music you like. (like Spacemen 3)

That's what I've been trying to say. There is no way of knowing the band were on drugs without hearing it for certain from a newspaper or something. Your own ears aren't even trustworthy, just like the way if you say "this sounds like band x" it isn't a fact, or "band x are good".

I can't really remember what I was arguing now but might I make a few points

1: Drugs (or at least the imbuement of substances and the heightening of the senses via external stimuli) and music have always gone together.

2: I am not a troll, I am a fascist. Close minded? Rather not prepared to accept the warblings of the blind.

3: The Stone Roses rock. CSNY are phenomenal (for at least their first two albums - c'mon, 'Deja Vu' - right off the first track and that Neil organ breakdown with David's bass working up the scale you know it's classic, you know it) and the MC5 are vastly overrated.

4: Nobody said nuthin' about the necessity for getting high to appreciate music so don't get all excited.

5: Errr

6: Ah.

7: Hello.

Nobody said nuthin' about the necessity for getting high to appreciate music so don't get all excited.

Sorry what was that? I'm dead excited now! Going mad I am. It's nice to see you can still remain calm though cos you might be able to give one distinct meaning for the bullshit sentence that is "drugs and music have always gone together". Yeah rock on man, then the ravers and rockers were united with the drugs and we all got fucking wasted. Hey rodge do you do pills man? We should go out some time and bang loads of pills! Yeah wicked! Cool! Pills!

And no, I never pilled in my life kid. Straight up. That's how wide of the mark you are and that's why I said I think there might be some cross purpose talk here.

the roses are really bad though and your enthusiasm for some of the bands (evevn the stuff i love like hendrix is kinda cartoonish).

Anyhoows, Ronan, I'm sorry my gash comment didn't amuse. I must say I thought it was quite funny in it's utter disregard. Still, you can't please all of the peole all of the time or whatever. As you say, I will attempt to employ more wit on the next ocassion I offer a critique of the artless self-parodying, marketing exercise of a tired, once great dance outfit.

I am english though i am in toronto at the moment (will be back in 10 days when this account will go). I thought you were american actually.

"I don't have the venom of old, but I still hate the first Stone Roses album as much as ever. They were just a bunch of car thieves. Nothing wrong with being a car thief as long as you don't make crap records.
Overrated rubbish."

tee hee!

Why do cut-rate talents like Lloyd Cole try and piss on the Roses? Do they think it makes them sound edgy and revolutionary? Cos really it just makes them sound bitter and jealous...

Much later, I got it on CD and thought it fine indeed.

I could probably pull out a few tracks I still like - the 2nd album has more good stuff than the 1st, I think. I kind of like the less as the years pass though. They're another band who fucked up, and who could probably have done much better than they did, though admittedly they had some excuse in this case w/the rotten deal they got.

The drummer, by the time of the second album, was amazing. One of the few great british rock drummers of the nineties.

What I won't really get is that they're better than, say, the Boo Radleys. Better looking, better clothes / drugs etc, but song-for-song...?

Oh damn, I am listening to the 3-CD 20th Anniv Edition of the S/T and hearing "Fools Gold" and "What The World Is Waiting For" and "One Love" all back to back made me realize they had more "Fools Gold"ish non-janglepop str8 funk dub jams than I realized

I kind of always thought of "Fools Gold" was just their "Soon" or something, like obv they've always been dance-ISH but "Fools Gold" is like CAPITAL-D DANCE and I never realized they devoted so many tracks to this sound (which is more or less absent from their albums w/ the exception of maybe "Begging You" and "Breaking Into Heaven"

and this too!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxWohpJfCUw

Oh yes that came on after "One Lofe" and I meant to include that too!

"One Lofe"

standard bread order in manchester tbf

that makes sense because loaf is pronounced lofe in manchester

we don't need another louf

okay everyone always says "Second Coming" is v Zeppelin (who I never rly did get well acquainted with) and that aligns w/ the idea I have of Led Zeppelin w/ the songs that I've heard, but I mean did Led Zep really make songs w/ grooves as tight as "Breaking Into Heaven" or "Love Spreads" or "Driving South" and if so what are they???

that sounds like me singing along to that song in the car