How comes nobody ever mentions the MC5 round here?

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'"Kick Out the Jams" if a masterpiece'

Sounds like you are listening to critics than actually listening to the content. Why is it a masterpice?

Julio Desouza, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Sounds like you are listening to critics than actually listening to the content.

I have never seen a review praising this album/the MC5, and retrospect reviews (like in Trouser Press) declare the band over-rated.

I think Kick Out the Jams has its moments (title track, "Rocket Reducer No. 62", the first half of "Starship"), but it's nothing great.

Vic Funk, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

'I have never seen a review praising this album/the MC5'

I have seen a couple but they are also held responsible for somehow (like fellow dud band the stooges)helping to create punk. But we should not pay attention since it is the mainstream rock press who say this garbage.

Julio Desouza, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Well, I'm glad you know so much better than everyone else that you can share the truth with all of us. I've never heard any MC5 to my knowledge, but god, you bug the living fuck out of me.

Melissa W, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

fellow dud band the stooges

b.w*tson to thread!!

mark s, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Melissa, I want to send you fan mail!

(Is BW a Stooges lover - somehow seems incompatible w/ FZ worship - or on crack like Julio?)

Andrew L, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

bw = on crack AND a stooges lovah!! haha he even gave that iggy/doggy CD a good review (zappa wuv = incompatible with EVERYTHING) (julio do you like zappa? surely not... )

i think the mc5 are overrated, but i may possibly nevah have heard them, i just find the way ppl talk abt them boring

(the first nme i evah bought (1976) had wayne kramer's criminal mugshots on the cover)

mark s, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

The MC5 were fabulous. I've mentioned this before around here.

Curt, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

I mentioned them here.

sundar subramanian, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

"i think the mc5 are overrated, but i may possibly nevah have heard them, i just find the way ppl talk abt them boring"

but that's what julio is saying! except then he sees a chance to "break da mould" or something

Bob Zemko, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

'High Time' is the best Rock album ever, and has the best closing track ever, drum solo, wobbly saxophones and all. Kick Out The Jams is the most out of tune Rock album ever. Three superlatives. Can any band beat that?

Snotty Moore, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Andrew will think I'm making this up because we strongly disagree about this writer, but I got into an admittedly brief discussion about the MC5 on a John Barth group just a couple of days ago. We liked them a lot, and who knows more about rock music than fans of postmodernist literature? Um...

Martin Skidmore, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

I worship the Stooges, etc., ok, but I did own "Kick Out the Jams" and "Back in the USA" (on vinyl, natch) and really found them to be incredibly overrated. Especially the first one. The second one had its moments, but no way was it (to me) worthy of all the fawning praise it gets. This is definately one band that I just don't get, I guess. I mean they're ok. That's all.

Sean, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

You should check out their odds and sods collection "Babes in arms", Sean. I found their studio albums over-produced but "Babes in arms" is fantastic.

Michael Bourke, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Melissa- Are you a radiohead fan? If i bug the living fuck out of you then I am doing something right. So I will keep doing it.

Mark- I have only one Zappa album- Guitar- a 2 CD set of his solos. Good guitarist but he writes some poor arrangements for his fellow players. You can see why some people hate zappa's solo career. But I rather listen to his guitar playing than stooges/MC5.

Iggy gets good reviews from Ben and I couldn't care less. He has 'atitude' but the music sucks, and that's the biggest crime of all.

'i think the mc5 are overrated, but i may possibly nevah have heard them, i just find the way ppl talk abt them boring'

that's because they are boring. I could try and analyse Kick out of the jams and give a blow by blow account on this album but life is too short, and I have to catch up on my anthony braxton CDs.

Julio Desouza, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Im with Melissa on this one, in fact I think Im in love

kiwi, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

"Why is 'Kick Out the Jams' a masterpiece?"

Because, rather simply and bluntly put, it ROCKS! Have ye not ears? Listen to that riff!!!!

Don't be such a knee-jerk critic-o-phobe. It undermines your argument, and just makes you look like a contrarian. True, critics do slather needlessly all over certain artists, but in this particular case, I'd wager they're on to something.

Alex in NYC, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

[ppl talk abt them boringly => they are boring] => braxton is boring QED

HOWEVER: [[A => B] => C] = [-C => - [A => B]].

Hence ppl talk abt them boringly for othah reasons

mark s, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Wow, someone sounds like a total prat. Doesn't bug the living fuck out of me though. Just makes me giggle.

Anyway, I like the MC5. Good rawk and roll and hysterical banter. I'd love to see someone prove that it is "bad" though. Hehehehe.

Alex in SF, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

i. everything I've ever heard by them sounds like it would have been better live. maybe you had to BE there, in time and in space. they were so sloppy and patchy and not-quite-gelling-as-a-concept that anybody looking for a Great Band to Love is going to be disappointed with them, i think.

ii. that said, if you like loud rock n roll from that era there are a lot of great songs, and they way they play them is intense. you can hear them striving to be as blistering as possible; even when they don't achieve it you can hear them trying.

iii. they had a song called "i'm mad like eldridge cleaver's mad".

iv. they practiced dangerous sax.

Tracer Hand, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

'Because, rather simply and bluntly put, it ROCKS! Have ye not ears? Listen to that riff!!!! '

Alex- I love listening to the sound of the guitar. But I can't hear what is obvious to you and therefore I will say it's rubbish.

Mark- I did not imply that braxton is boring. What's all that other gibberish.

'Hence ppl talk abt them boringly for othah reasons'

which are?

Julio Desouza, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

'I'd love to see someone prove that it is "bad" though. Hehehehe.'

No, it can't be proven by science. But it doesn't matter.

'Wow, someone sounds like a total prat. Doesn't bug the living fuck out of me though. Just makes me giggle.'

And I don't give a shit either. But all I've done is to disagree with another person's opinion.

Julio Desouza, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

(other gibberish = deft and devastating logical analysis conclusively proving that — given braxton NOT boring (as you and i both agree) — the reason ppl talk boringly abt MC5 cannot merely be that they are boring (whether they are or not)... )

"what are these reasons?" — i haf no idea: logic need not concern itself w.substantive detail (which is lucky for me)

mark s, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Mark- Fair enough.

Julio Desouza, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

And people who say they had 'fire' and 'soul' don't know what the fuck they are on about.

Right, I forgot. Only black men from the 60s with saxophones can make "fiery, soulful" music. Melissa's not the only one you're bugging the fuck out of. And I like Anthony Braxton.

Clarke B., Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

'Right, I forgot. Only black men from the 60s with saxophones can make "fiery, soulful" music. Melissa's not the only one you're bugging the fuck out of. And I like Anthony Braxton.'

I actually don't like terms like fire music in relation to free jazz. It's a stupid term made up just to sell this music. Anthony braxton is not 'classfied' as fire. You've read my comment wrongly.

Julio Desouza, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

I think it's funny that Julio is getting all Free Jazz snob on us, when the Stooges/MC5 were among the first rock bands to add Out Jazz noodlings to the standard blues/rock mix. The MC5's 'project' of combining James Brown, Sun Ra and The Who isn't so v. far removed from that Miles Davis 'Sly Stone + Stockhausen + Hendrix' formula of the late sixties/early seventies. Could be something to do w/ the 'Detroit Difference' alluded to on Dave Q's thread recently? If nothing else, MC5 manager John Sinclair promoted Art Ensemble gigs, which surely we can all agree was for the greater gd?

Partly I asked this question 'cos I was wondering why the current crop of 'exciting' white boy rock classicists - The Strokes, The Hives, Black Rebel Motorcyle Club etc - totally avoid ANY kind of overtly 'political' content, unlike the MC5.

And I think Wayne Kramer is one of the all-time great rock guitarists, as if such a thing still matters at this late stage in the game...

Andrew L, Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

I don't like terms like "free" being used for free jazz. It's just as much of a marketing tool, it seems to me, especially now that it's been around for so long. Couldn't one argue that present-day free jazzers are just as staunchly classicist as Wynton? Not that I agree with this, but there's something to it. A lot of free jazzers sneer at their music being "polluted" by fusions with other styles, and cop purist, fiercely protective attitudes towards "their" music.

I know Braxton isn't typically categorized as "fire," I just mentioned him because he had been mentioned quite a few times already in the thread. And I was also trying to pre-empt any snide comments you might care to throw my way about my ignorance of the matter at hand. I don't want to start a fight or anything, I just feel like you're coming across kind of harshly; it's comments like the ones you've been making lately that give fans of experimental and avant- garde music a bad rep.

Clarke B., Saturday, 16 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

"Couldn't one argue that present-day free jazzers are just as staunchly classicist as Wynton? Not that I agree with this, but there's something to it. A lot of free jazzers sneer at their music being 'polluted' by fusions with other styles, and cop purist, fiercely protective attitudes towards 'their' music."

Are you quoting someone here, Clarke? 'Cause if you are, I'd like to see the context. Of course if you look hard enough you'll probably find some classicist free jazz musicians, just as you'll find classicists musicians/fans of any genre. But offhand I can't think of any free jazz purists-- and you'd think that if a lot of them were lurking, that Spring Heel Jack record from last year and the new Matt Shipp would've brought them out of the woodwork big time. These were, after all, very high profile releases by just about the most high profile players out there, and if you go over to, like, freejazz.org, you won't see much if any backlash. So I'm not sure how anyone could reasonably argue that "present-day free jazzers" are as classicist as Wynton.

Not completely sure what this adds to the discussion, 'cause I pretty much agree with you, but the sort of sneering Julio's doing, while obnoxious, is only tangentially related to the defensive purist sneering you're talking about in your last post.

charlie va, Sunday, 17 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

the worst thing about zappa must be the guitar solos. it's a bunch wanking. zappa without the jokes couldn't be more boring to me. and that seems to be the kinda stuff you are into.

mc5 are ok. some good rocking. as for punk coming out of mc5, or the residents or the stooges or beefheart or whatever. it's not a one- band thing anyway.

olly 360, Sunday, 17 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

'when the Stooges/MC5 were among the first rock bands to add Out Jazz noodlings to the standard blues/rock mix.'

Well, they didn't pull it off with any sort of conviction.

'I think it's funny that Julio is getting all Free Jazz snob on us'

Not at all I love guitar bands like Dead C and Fuchitsusha for instance, electroacoustic music, free improv and a some indie bands like husker du and low and some punk as well. Don't misinterpret my comments on the MC5 to come up with that conclusion.

'The MC5's 'project' of combining James Brown, Sun Ra and The Who'

Well, I rather listen to james brown and sun ra. Yes, and john sinclair I think had the tapes for 'it is forbidden' (recently issued recording of a gig where the arkestra opened for James brown). They may have had the idea but from the records I don't actually think they did a good at putting together these influences to come up with something new or even something to listen to. The band had no 'dynamics'.

'the worst thing about zappa must be the guitar solos. it's a bunch wanking. zappa without the jokes couldn't be more boring to me. and that seems to be the kinda stuff you are into.'

See my comments up there. Other guitarists I like: Keiji haino, Masayuki takayanagi, Michael Morley, Keith levene, Blood Ulmer, derek bailey, keith rowe and yes, Farnk Zappa.

Julio Desouza, Sunday, 17 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

noooo!! the worst thing abt zappa IS the "jokes"!! he's just NOT FUNNY!! then the "singing"!! he's a terrible singer!! i don't mind his music anything like as much when he shuts up!!

mark s, Sunday, 17 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Mark- I read abt this- which is why I thought I'd get a zappa Guitar album. But I'll probably get around to get one of his 'spoken' albums.

I always find it problematic when people try to be funny or when they (lyricists) try 'poetical' langague though I love beeefheart's lyrics.

'but the sort of sneering Julio's doing, while obnoxious' It's not obnoxious is it? I used the f-word in my first post but I just refuse to accept this guff abt MC5.

And i just want to add that terms like 'free' in free jazz don't describe the variety within 'it'. But lets not forget that we use such terms so that we can get some discussion going.

Julio Desouza, Sunday, 17 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

MC5's records are inconsistent. "Back in the USA" and "High Time" are both mainly fantastic with some terrible bits, "Kick Out the Jams" is terribly overrated. In fact, I'll be heretical here and say that Blue Oyster Cult do a better version of "Kick Out the Jams" on "Some Enchanted Evening" than the one on Five's debut. Best thing to do is get a copy of "The Big Bang," which does a fine job of distilling them down to what they should have been -- a kickass rocknroll singles band.

J, Sunday, 17 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Read this thread to figure out why the "highbrow"/"lowbrow" rift will never be closed.

Clarke B., Sunday, 17 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Julio, to explain what I mean, it's not so much that you hate the MC5 that bugs people, I don't think. That's fine and fair. It's the little jab at the end - "I've got Anthony Braxton records to listen to" - that reeks. It's like, to paraphrase Charlie (we just talked about this), "Your dumb caveman rock is just no match for the cerebrally visceral free jazz compositions of Anthony Braxton." Your reasons don't really seem to extend beyond your insistence that music like this is stupid, and music like Braxton's is smart. Plus, your list of guitarists reads like a "The Insufferable Hipster's Top Ten Guitar Gods" thread on ILM.

Clarke B., Sunday, 17 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

re: zappa vs mc5
i listened to chungas revenge and kick out the jams today and they rocked equally. the thing is, zappa, if he wanted to, could have knocked out 3 'kick out the jams' in one year. just awesome rock riffage, faster than the normal rock at the time, with a hard political message and a bad live mix. but zappa was a nerd like most of us. he obsessed over rock records, jazz records, avante composers etc etc etc. so his records had all these influences coming at us from all over the place all at once. everyone else at the time was just doing whatever their 'niche' was or whatever. i dunno im still drunxor from last night but i do know i love frank zappa for some reason. i dont get the 80's stuff though. thing fish and broadway the hardway are shitty to me right now.

chaki, Sunday, 17 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Ah, Frank Zappa sucks.

J, Sunday, 17 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

OK i'll try & mention the MC5 in every post i make from now on.

(BTW yes i like them tons...best alb. = "High Time"...everything i'd care to say has already been said here tho)

, Sunday, 17 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

All I have to add to this thread is that I've never really understood the MC5 so much...taken out of context, it doesn't really seem too rockin', though I'm sure it was certainly more provocative at the time. (I had the same experience with the Clash--never understood what all the ruckus was about until a lot later. So maybe MC5 will click in one day, but for now the stuff I heard on that recent compilation just seemed unreasonably tame after considering all the expectations generated by zee hype.) Stooges, on the other hand, were a blast of raw energy, and I will not deny them.

Sean Carruthers, Sunday, 17 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

'Your reasons don't really seem to extend beyond your insistence that music like this is stupid, and music like Braxton's is smart.'

I accept that I might have implied that BUT as I've said before I like rock. I, in fact, love it. Goddamit, its the first i started listening to.

I've never said the MC5 was caveman rock. They tried to match free jazz WITH rock. Just like, say, the stooges and what I've said is that from listening to the records, they don't pull it off.

'Plus, your list of guitarists reads like a "The Insufferable Hipster's Top Ten Guitar Gods" thread on ILM.'

I'm not being a hipster: someone else started it because I said I liked Zappa's guitar playing (because mark asked me whether I liked zappa and if I was a hipster he wouldn't be on my list). So I cited other guitarists that I liked because that person said it was a load of wanking.

Again, I've listened to many more (Others I didn't mention: D. Boon, Bob mould, Stefan jaworzyn, rudolph grey, etc.). These are all really good guitarists that I like and if some people haven't heard them and they haven't listened to some of the records these people were in then they should give it a go.

Julio Desouza, Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

hey doorag if U always mention mc5 and *I* always mention vanessa mae then, er, i don't know what then

mark s, Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

I've never knowingly heard the MC5 (Andrew I'm sure you must have played some when we worked together so I've probably unknowingly heard them). I wonder about buying one of their records sometime but, whatever.

I think people are being too harsh on Julio though. He's a poster with a limited range of tastes and his position on the MC5 is perfectly consistent. To someone who listens to the stuff he does the MC5 probably sound like Gorillaz do to lots of us, i.e. a misplaced, patronising and botched hybridisation.

Tom, Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

What's a doorag?

Tom- my brother likes Goraillaz, so I got to know what they sound like. Unlucky for me.

Julio Desouza, Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

I don't have any problem with his position. Everyone's entitled to their own point of view. That said, coming off like an arrogant insufferable wank (i.e. my opinion is so so very right and you are an idiot or deluded or misinformed if you disagree) is pretty lame and, IMHO, a perfectly justifiable reason to be harsh in return.

The problem isn't really one of limited tastes, but of limited social skills.

Alex in SF, Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

julio - i'm this thing.

tom - nah don't reckon. *everyone* i have *ever known* likes all the same shit he likes,& they all wuv the '5.

duane, Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

I'm 70% certain (as they say on 'Who Wants To Be A Millionaire') that the MC5 wld not be yr cup of tea, Tom.

And I think I'm prob. guilty of overegging the MC5 jazz-rock pud. Most often they sound like The Who...

Andrew L, Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

"everyone i know" - a phat lie obv but you know what i mean. or you don't. doesnt everyone else here know lots of "insufferable hipsters"?

, Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

I only know sufferable hipsters.

Alex in SF, Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

I think perhaps we've got on Julio's case because we recognise that 'insufferable hipster' impulse in ourselves but just don't express it so nakedly. Apart from enjoying the tunage, I like Destiny's Child etc. because they sort of allow you to say "See, I don't just like groups that have been given The Wire seal of approval."

Andrew L, Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

It's not that I can't understand how someone wouldn't like the MC5 but I do think it's weird if you like the Pink Fairies and the Stooges but not the MC5. It seems like you're missing out on something you would actually like if you approached it in the right way.

walter kranz (walterkranz), Saturday, 23 April 2005 15:11 (9 years ago) Permalink

Not really, No, Scott. Something about the way they played together just doesn't do it for me. The only thing I really like about them is the way they looked, kind of archetypal bad-ass rockstars (see also velvet revolver, heh)

Do you dig the pink fairies, Scott?

(x-post what I like abt the fairies = raga rock guitar solos, general feel of band, the singer, their vers of "walk don't run" is just about the best thing ever for me today what I like abt the stooges = they rocked) - a bunch of my friends are really into the mc5, but try as I might, I just can't connect w/the music.

Pashmina (Pashmina), Saturday, 23 April 2005 15:15 (9 years ago) Permalink

actually, I would be interested in hearing a verion of 'black to comm' that cameron mentioned (hi cameron!). didn't spaceman 3 do a cover of that ('revolution')? xxp => I'll have to check the pink fairies out

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 23 April 2005 15:18 (9 years ago) Permalink

even i would take the stooges worst album (raw power) over 'kick out the jams.'

i saw that pink faeries record recently and it looked pretty cool. what's it like?

Amon (eman), Saturday, 23 April 2005 15:19 (9 years ago) Permalink

**It's not that I can't understand how someone wouldn't like the MC5 but I do think it's weird if you like the Pink Fairies and the Stooges but not the MC5.**

each to his own, but...liking the Pink Fairies but not liking MC5 = liking Badfinger but not liking the Beatles.

m coleman (lovebug starski), Saturday, 23 April 2005 15:30 (9 years ago) Permalink

yeah, i like the pink fairies. and deviants. and twink. and hawkwind. and...look, i like most of it. i might even be a bigger groundhogs fan than i am an MC5 fan. but MC5 really were a bloozy/soul/R&B/Detroit hard rock band, not a psych band. even though they could play for days and get really noisy and stuff. and they could be sloppy as hell too, but those guitars!!! Hell, I own 5 Brownsville Station albums, so maybe i'm not the most clear-headed when it comes to this kinda thing.

scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 23 April 2005 15:35 (9 years ago) Permalink

i mean, if i saw 3 or 4 reasonably priced amboy dukes bootlegs in a record store somewhere, i would probably buy them.

scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 23 April 2005 15:39 (9 years ago) Permalink

Pash, have you heard 'High Time'? It sounds nothing like either 'Back in the USA' or 'Kick Out the Jams'.

J (Jay), Saturday, 23 April 2005 15:41 (9 years ago) Permalink

Just listening to "Right on Fight on" -- you can definitely see someone thinking of the Fairies as a sort of English MC5, but they're just nowhere near as DYNAMITE. Lovebug otm.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 23 April 2005 15:44 (9 years ago) Permalink

Scott can prob. describe "What a Bunch of Sweeties" better than I can, I think it's great. I can remember when I first heard it, there's this bit on "Walk Don't Run", where the band breaks down, and picks up into this great raga-rock a la 1971-72 solo. It fucking burned into my mind the first time I heard it! I didn't hear it again until years later, and I remembered it just about perfectly, 20yrs later, I still get off on cranking it up & listening to it. The album has a couple of duff tracks, but the band sounds so nice, all loose-but-together and not quite tuned up perfectly, so it's got this kind of swirl about it, and the singer has this nice slightly out-of-it delivery that even the duff tracks are kind of enjoyable.

+ the Groundhogs "Hoggin' the Stage" that's a fucking lost gem of fucking ROCK if ever there was one, eh? How could 3 people make such a RICH sound?

X-post I've heard them all FFS!

I think the people who thought of the fairies as a brit mc5 most were the fairies themselves, but, y'know, PAUL RUDOLPH, man!!

Pashmina (Pashmina), Saturday, 23 April 2005 15:47 (9 years ago) Permalink

I mean I'm an old fart! I remember, years ago, "received wisdom" was that the only one worth bothering with was "Kick out the Jams" and the other stuff was sort of, I dunno, second rate in s ome way, if you can beleive that!

Pashmina (Pashmina), Saturday, 23 April 2005 15:50 (9 years ago) Permalink

Recently I listened to The Frost (guitarist Dick Wagner's 60s Detroit band)for ol' times sake and if you think MC5 are dumb bloozers..."Rock & Roll Music" makes "Kick Out The Jams" sound like "Good Vibrations." The Frost did have some cool psych tunes.

m coleman (lovebug starski), Saturday, 23 April 2005 16:16 (9 years ago) Permalink

I mean I'm an old fart! I remember, years ago, "received wisdom" was that the only one worth bothering with was "Kick out the Jams" and the other stuff was sort of, I dunno, second rate in s ome way, if you can beleive that!

Yeah, I believe that as it's ths standard critical line on them. The fact that everyone judges them by their worst album is why I think the band is underrated (though I'll concede that one album is overrated). Your statement kind of implies that you haven't really listened to them in years and when you did you were listening with the baggage of "received wisdom." But I guess that's fair enough. MC5 might be one of those bands where if you don't hear it when you're a teenager you'll never hear it.

walter kranz (walterkranz), Saturday, 23 April 2005 16:40 (9 years ago) Permalink

On the other hand, they were so transcendentally great that you'd have to think that the possibility would certainly exist for some individuals to come around.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 23 April 2005 16:53 (9 years ago) Permalink

you can't really look to MC5 for what you get with the Stooges. the latter gave off a dark, fucked-up heroin vibe while the former was always upbeat and caffeinated. the Stooges wanted to pummel their audience into the ground while MC5 wanted to energize them into some kind of action.

Amon (eman), Sunday, 24 April 2005 01:09 (9 years ago) Permalink

3 years pass...

http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2008/08/the-john-sebast.html

schlump, Monday, 1 September 2008 13:06 (5 years ago) Permalink

I'm not a huge fan of the ROCK these days but I respectively submit that any fan of 70s guitar music needs to have "I Can Only Give You Everything" and "Looking At You" in their collection. While they may not have actually ever hit that transcendental moment, for me their best tunes always have them striving for it.

factcheckr, Monday, 1 September 2008 13:30 (5 years ago) Permalink

i don't know. maybe because i think YES to i can only give you everything (who wrote that?, by the way? i know it's like a nuggets staple you can hear van morrison &c doing), but not necessarily yes to looking at you. but i think their most interesting stuff isn't so rock. even if it's stupid-heavy, things like come together aren't really riff-rockin' classics. and then there's the totally not-rock stuff, revolutionary blues and skunk and stuff. i don't think their best stuff's abides to the form of heavy-ass rock-songs or anything.

schlump, Monday, 1 September 2008 14:03 (5 years ago) Permalink

I think I Can Only Give You Everything was originally written for the Troggs by one of those songwriting teams, but every garage band and his dog did a version of it.

Colonel Poo, Monday, 1 September 2008 14:09 (5 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I've got "Trogglodynamite" which is where I know it from.

Mark G, Monday, 1 September 2008 14:10 (5 years ago) Permalink

1 year passes...

lyrics are kinda cheese but that electric autoharp sounds amazing

Brio, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 21:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

Brio, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 21:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

#

Brio, Wednesday, 24 February 2010 21:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

I didn't know there was another rockin' electric autoharp player. I mean, aside from the guy from Cold Sun.

Gorgeous Ladies Of Curling (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Thursday, 25 February 2010 02:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

Also that Ted Taylor tune is fucking boss

Gorgeous Ladies Of Curling (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Thursday, 25 February 2010 02:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I was kind of surprised when I first heard it to hear how close the MC5 stayed to the original - obviously they rock it up a bit, but all the good stuff in their version is right there in the Ted Taylor tune.

Brio, Thursday, 25 February 2010 15:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

The comparison between those two videos is like the perfect example why rock music sucks compared to R&B/soul. That MC5 dude can't sing at all, and the awesome groove is lost under guitar theatrics.

Tuomas, Friday, 26 February 2010 14:13 (4 years ago) Permalink

awww come on. there's room for awesome R&B grooves and bad singing/guitar theatrics rock music in the world.

Brio, Friday, 26 February 2010 15:40 (4 years ago) Permalink

One thing that flips my wig on that Ted Taylor 45 is the production is credited to Billy Sherrill, which is probably is the same guy eventually known for the country-politan sound of early 70s recordings by George Jones, Tammy Wynette and Charlie Rich.

The music biz used to be a way smaller place.

earlnash, Sunday, 28 February 2010 05:09 (4 years ago) Permalink

1 year passes...

RIP Michael Davis:

Michael Davis, the bassist of influential late 1960s rock band MC5, has died of liver failure, his wife said Saturday. He was 68.

Davis died at Enloe Medical Center in Chico, Calif., on Friday afternoon after a month-long hospitalization for liver disease, said Angela Davis.

Ned Raggett, Sunday, 19 February 2012 05:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

aw man

Janet Snakehole (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 19 February 2012 05:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

RIP

I stood frontrow before him during the '04 reunion show here. After the show I swiped his setlist only to have this cute girl ask me to see it and run away after I handed it over.

Fortunately I was able to get back to the stage to steal Marshall Crenshaw's copy.

Mike Love Costume Jewelry on Etsy (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 19 February 2012 06:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

This is deeply saddening. A good friend of mine played with him in Destroy All Monsters, had nothing but nice things to say about him.

Let A Man Come In And Do The Cop Porn (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Sunday, 19 February 2012 06:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh shit.

i was facebook 'friends' with him, he always seemed very happy and content and full of life. what a fucking huge bummer

Stormy Davis, Sunday, 19 February 2012 07:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

Stormy Davis, Sunday, 19 February 2012 07:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

;_;

Janet Snakehole (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 19 February 2012 07:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

Looking over thread...

One thing that flips my wig on that Ted Taylor 45 is the production is credited to Billy Sherrill, which is probably is the same guy eventually known for the country-politan sound of early 70s recordings by George Jones, Tammy Wynette and Charlie Rich.

The music biz used to be a way smaller place.

Billy Sherrill also produced some of The Remains studio stuff. Also, I have a copy of Jerry Lee Lewis doing "Ramblin' Rose" near the end of his Sun tenure. Supposedly he recorded it first, but his version didn't hit the streets 'til '69-70.

Mike Love Costume Jewelry on Etsy (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 19 February 2012 07:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

oh man, so sad to hear. <3 you always.

Little GTFO (contenderizer), Sunday, 19 February 2012 07:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

Stormy Davis, Sunday, 19 February 2012 09:19 (2 years ago) Permalink


their earliest footage unless I'm mistaken.
Shows them off as dandyish, I always thought they were a jeans & tshirt band until I heard that they had wives and girlfriends making a lot of clothes for them.

Sorry to hear about Mike Davis, hope he didn't suffer too much at the end. He was in hospital for a month. So have to assume he must have been.

Do wish somebody would release a compi of whatever complete footage with sound there is. Would love to see a True Testimonial released, it's a pretty good film.
So wonder if this death will trigger any new releases. A remastered set of lps would be good too. & will assume that Easy action will rerelease Purity, Accuracy the box set of rehearsal & live material.

Stevolende, Sunday, 19 February 2012 11:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

Aww RIP Mike Davis.

Been listening to High Time like crazy lately, kind of an amazing record and I wish it hadn't taken me forever to get that.

Will the waveform be unbroken? (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Sunday, 19 February 2012 13:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

My brother texted me this news this morning. RIP Mike D. MC2 now?

Charles Kennedy Jumped Up, He Called 'Oh No'. (Tom D.), Sunday, 19 February 2012 13:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

Just reading various stuff about him on the internet this evening and it sounds like he was a genuinely good dude all round.

Feebs K-Tel (NickB), Sunday, 19 February 2012 22:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

Feebs K-Tel (NickB), Sunday, 19 February 2012 22:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

9 months pass...

woooah, some people here seem to totally miss the point of the mc5. man, this is some fucking batshit freak the fuck out wild music. the energy and vibe they put out is phenomenal and they definitely set a high note for that kinda style. if you don't feel it, that's cool, but I'll never get enough of it.

Spectrum, Thursday, 13 December 2012 00:59 (1 year ago) Permalink


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