Unemployed Watercooler Fridge Buzz Commiseration, Alienation and Mental Anti-Stagnation Society (DNRIYHM)

I see "role" being used as synonymous with "job" all the time in vacancy announcements. "This is a varied role", "Please explain how you are suited to the role", etc

"in this role you will be require to act convincing as though you know what you're doing"

See, I don't believe I was zinging a friend here, or in any way being ~personal~, rather I was offering a general WTF at the rigama of 'role'. I'm pretty jaundiced when it comes to HR-speak but 'role' makes me tetchy in a lie-that-speaks-the-truth sorta way.

(Not deadline-surfing BTW, was on a tea break in the office where I'm doing a few weeks' copywriting)

You know what, I've explained why I used the term in the way I did; I'm not interested in scrapping with you, so I'm just going to discontinue this conversation now.

Right now, I'm more pissed off by the general prevalence of yet more all-male panels and all male events and all male speakers.

Got an email about something I might actually be really interested in:

Faber Social teams up with The Quietus in May to present a night of music, words and film exploring the British uncanny and modern occult in relation to our history, culture, landscape and society.

Then I flick my eyes down through the list of writers, speakers, poets, DJs. All blokes. Every single one. I categorically no longer go to all male events. I just don't have time for this. So it's disappointing when I see something I would otherwise be very interested in the topic of, but it's just a giant sausage party. Fuck that shit.

rigama of 'role'

otm

Imagine having a British occult spesh without, y'know, *witches*.

Faber are pretty notorious for making a weenie roast of Social events/panels and you can blame the relevant editor, L33 B1ack$t0n3, who has even alienated a close friend/male muse of one of his most successful authors on the basis that everything there is (direct quote) "hetty-Betty boy-bonding". I was 'girled' at one featuring another good friend and I'm not ever planning on going to another.

just realized A Field in England is all dudes but beyond that can't think of a single film/musical group in this genre without strong female input, really quite a weird reading

weird like they'd have to go out of their way to be so monogender

I don't know what to think. The main speaker also happens to be the BFF of a certain ex of mine - I've gone to some of his events before, which were fine; don't remember if they were sausage parties, suspect not, because he's good friends with several women from that kind of ~wyrdness~ scene.

There is a certain strand of that subculture which is very boys-only, but it did tend to be overtly homosexual rather than just homosocial. Said BFF used to regularly go along to "all man" weekends with well known musical artists (my ex was invited but didn't go because it made him uncomfortable that partners weren't allowed) and it was kind of occult gay wyrdness, which is like, OK, I could see in that situation, all male being a *thing*.

But this isn't at all like that, it's just yet another boring fucking all male panel and I'm just so done with that. It's 2014, I just don't do sausage parties.

Mostly, at this point, I just kind of wonder... with so many people organisation's names on this thing, did no one at The Quietus or Strange Attractor, or *any* of the guests just kind of look up and go "Hmmm, can't put my finger on it, but something is *missing* here..." I just have trouble believing how common it is that no men involved with these all male panels and all male bills ever look up and go "something's ... not right here?" Like they don't even fucking *notice*?

my boss just called me into his office to discuss a new "role"!

Like they don't even fucking *notice*?

I really think they don't!

You bet they would notice an all female line-up, though!

was gonna say.

Have a sneaking suspicious this is why so many male events organisers are resistant to even "token women" on panels or events or gigs. Seeing one woman up there disrupts the illusion that all-male is normal or even acceptable. I get this shit all the time. My presence is "disruptive" or whatever in an all male environment that "never thought about gender before" because the mere presence of a single visible woman makes visible the massive gender elephant in the room.

Dear men: NOTICE THIS SHIT, PLEASE. I get tired of having to notice it for you.

Hi, shit has been duly noted and passed on to Faber…

In my defence:

1. This is the first time I've sat down and looked at the line up - Yeah, shit is lame. Sorry. I'm going to ask to have me replaced on the bill if they can do it at the last minute. HOWEVER. I've done one of Lee's events before (which I never looked into the line up before either) and two of the four readers were female. I work an 80 hour week and am a hands on dad to a three year old. I have literally no social life or downtime. This is all I do. Perhaps I should have checked the gender balance of the line up before agreeing to do it but I didn't because I was in a mad rush. I'll be more vigilant next time.
2. I really, really, really resent the implication this is just par for the course for us. Take a look at the front page of the Quietus today right now and you'll see a feature on Hole's Live Through This. An interview with Courtney Love. A reissue review of Bikini Kill. A review of the Iggy Azaelia album. A news feature on Daphne Oram. A news feature on Imogen Heap. I'm in the process of setting up (it's going to be run and steered 100% by women) a national initiative to encourage and support more women to write about the arts - announcement due on the quietus before the end of the summer. The problem runs pretty deep. I had a meeting recently with the person in charge of issues regarding female performers at PRS and she said that only 14% of their massive database are female. So things are pretty fucking bleak on both sides of the fence. But genuinely we're interested in helping make things better in whatever way we can.
3. I went on Radio 6 for an hour earlier this year and picked nothing but female artists to play on the show. I didn't make a song and dance about it, it was just that they were the right artists to play that week. We don't go round patting ourselves on the back when we do stuff like this - so no, the "I bet they'd notice" comment is wrong. If we always had 100% men on the site and always worked on 100% male line ups your concerns about us being actively misogynist would be understandable. But I think it would be fairer if you looked at our record on the whole.
4. I was asked to be a part of this year's Louder Than Words festival in Manchester and literally the first thing I said in negotiations was that our involvement depended 100% on them doing something about the gender, age and race imbalance. When it's up to me and its me doing the curating, it's something paramount in my mind. But then I didn't curate this line up or have a hand in it other than agreeing to do a reading.
5. As always Branwell you have my email address: j✧✧✧@thequie✧✧✧.c✧✧ - I only saw this because someone emailed me about it. I wouldn't have read it otherwise. If you're genuinely worried about stuff on the site and not just venting steam, the best way to get us to change stuff is to email us (as well as posting stuff on forums). That way we'll get to see it.

I have asked a thousand times for people not to use government names on ILX. Could you maybe remember that?

Why is it *MY* job to email people about gender imbalance in panel discussions? This is precisely my point.

You are now making this all about The Quietus and all about ~you~ (quelle surprise there) because that's what you do. But can you, for once, separate yourself from this, and instead of taking it as a personal insult, accept that this is a problem that goes way, way deeper than "OMG, someone's talking shit about me and my ~thing~ on the internet?" This is the 8 billionth all male panel I've seen advertised in my inbox this year, and it's only May.

I do accept that it's a deep problem. As I said above, it's something we're actually interested in helping combat in several different ways. I actually thought you might want to get involved in helping us given that it's something you care about but obviously not. You made several accusations about the Quietus above. I run the site and am the only person involved with it who posts on ILX… so I replied in a polite, explanatory and conciliatory way offering to try and make amends. And as always this ends up being your cue to get even more irate with me.

I'm running a site with the help of four people. It gets five times the amount of readers that NME got at its height - when it had a staff of over 40. There is a limit to what I can do on my own. I'll say again that genuinely the offer is always there if you want to get involved in the Quietus in terms of addressing the gender balance of the stuff we do. You have my email j✧✧✧@thequie✧✧✧.c✧✧. You probably still have it from the last two times you asked if you could write for us but then never bothered getting in touch but if not here it is again.

As for the other stuff. Yeah, I agree with you but I'm not really in a position to comment on the other 8 billion panels other than to say it's genuinely lame.

You are deluded. I have not asked to write for The Quietus.

You approached me once back in 2008, when I was still at Plan B, about using my illustrations, and it was *you* who did not follow up.

And as yet another Cis dude who thinks that they get to toss around a name I've asked people repeatedly not to call me (this is your idea of "polite"? This is actually my idea of showing intense disrespect) I have no interest in talking to you further. Good day to you, sir.

You asked if you could write for me on the Quietus thread over on ILM. Go back and check it yourself if you like. I had literally no idea that it was so offensive calling you by your name it's genuinely the first time it's come up with me but I won't do it again.

I'm pretty mystified as to what it is exactly I've done wrong here. Genuinely: take it easy, there was no offence meant.

And as I've broached this particular rubicon again today - to anyone else who is reading and interested in helping us broaden out the Quietus in any particular respect; please email me: john at the quietus dot com - I'll get back to you immediately.

What is a "government name"? And how is he supposed to know what to call you if he may not have read the threads in which you told people what to call you?

If you're bothered by people getting your name wrong then maybe you should choose a different username again.

Doran, I emailed you/your colleague a while back regarding writing for The Quietus, he asked for some samples of my writing which I sent him but he never got back to me. I guess he didn't like the way I write which is a pity.

In other news

'Absolute Genius with Dick and Dom' on CBBC, ope episode is on Delia Derbyshire

a govt name is anyone's common first name

well these guys ended our season in nov so whatever i spose

lol wrong thread

"Government name" sounds kinda badass I guess. Wait tho can none of us use them or what

Someone who isn't a poster's friend probably shouldn't be wielding their off-messageboard name in the context of debate; isn't it good netiquette to use the name they've chosen for ILX? Bramwell's friends - of which I am one - know the reasons not to address by given name here, no matter how familiar, so standard messageboard etiquette should probably cover les autres.

An interesting article was out recently re: argument strategies by men towards women, and part of the male belittling process under the guise of 'reasonable debate' was using your female adversary's given name (or, more commonly, a nickname version of said name) as a subtle form of diminishment (which is something anybody who is patronising will do to an adversary of whatever gender, but seems more prevalent in man to woman exchange). It's also incumbent on 'nice guys' to *be* that nice guy and gracefully accept a woman's attempt to consciousness-raise about their possible unconscious sexism in the same way said nice guy might reflect on fucking up in a similar way around issues of race.

Re. the Faber Social, all I really have to say it is galling to be at an event where there's a load of networking and men of similar or lower standing are being treated in a more inclusive way than a female equal. Some men notice when that's going on, but many don't or just go along to get along.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1sZTA8RMcG8/ToTHq8phCaI/AAAAAAAAD1I/8TImdSrMtIg/s400/bramwell_uk-show.jpg http://echostains.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/branwell-brontes-barbers-tale-by-chris-firth-sm-e1269813533507.jpg?w=227&h=300

anagram: we are horrifically overworked - I try and answer every single email I'm sent by writers but I can't expect the younger members of staff to lead the hermetic lifestyle I do in order to stay on top of work. Email me this weekend with some cuts and I'll get back to you.

I have literally never heard this about female first names before or netiquette about using people's first names & I didn't know what Government name meant until a few seconds ago. However rest assured I am now fully up to speed and won't be doing it again.

Here's the few-days-old article in question; I admit I didn't see the use of name thing in anything other than an 'I'm trying to manage you and/or patronise you in this argument' outwith the whole sexism/privilege assertion angle before I read this and gave it a few seconds' thought, so...

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/28/men-nicknames-for-women-sexist

...argument' *way* outwith... erk!

Will give it a read cheers. Also, I don't know who you are IRL but from what you've said, if you want to get in touch about work stuff please do. I don't have any control over this Faber event but it is an area we're moving more into.

Literary and mixed media events rather than taking over Faber Social that is.

JD, we met at a mutual friend/colleague's wake but that was ages ago. Your plans sound good! Admission-based events seem the only way to make a bit of wodge in certain areas of music and publishing, so hope participants are well looked after.

Well, anything we've done before the artists always get paid first, even if we don't get paid at all, which is often the case. It would be a given that we'd carry this on over to apply to writers, poets, film makers etc.

Branwell on stunning form in this thread

i like it when she tells people what they can and cant talk about on a messageboard

It's really amazing how, back in the days of yore, when some IRL shit went down in Nabisco's life, and he said "hey, you know, can you not use that name on the messageboard?" everybody got the message without a song and dance, and people stopped using his name.

It's really amazing how, back in the days of yore, when some crazy googlewhacking shit went down, Donut Bitch asked "hey, you know, can you not use that name on the messageboard?" everybody got the message without a song and dance, and people stopped using his name.

It's really amazing how, about 4 years ago, when some crazy IRL shit went down in my life, and I asked "hey, you know, can you please not use that name on the messageboard?" and somehow this message never gets through, and people continue to act like this is a bizarre and outré and unreasonable request to make, and I am a terrible person for even asking it.

And then the disingenuous "OMG, I have ~no idea~ what I'm supposed to have done wrong!!!" despite being told in the previous post, followed by "take it easy!" (what, you couldn't manage to slip in a "calm down, dear, no offence intended" while you were there?) is just the exact patronising bullshit I've come to expect from this specific individual.

And now we have the entire fucking rubbernecking peanut gallery of ILX clucking their tongues like a gabble of hens. What a joyful start to a bank holiday weekend!

I actually had a great afternoon! I discovered three new patches of the Great North Woods that I had only glimpsed from afar.

log off m8

Take it easy - as you well know - means I hope you're ok/may the road rise to meet you/I hope things are good for you. It does not mean what you're suggesting it does.

Disingenuous - no. I had no idea about this first name/government name thing. Why would I? Four years ago I very rarely ventured outside of metal threads.

xp booming contribution

Doran, it has been requested repeatedly. I think it's a fairly reasonable assumption that ILXors in general might have taken it on board. Obviously not in this case, but you can understand how it might get extremely tiring and 'real names' should at least not be the default when people are posting under usernames.

Doran, it has been requested repeatedly. I think it's a fairly reasonable assumption that ILXors in general might have taken it on board

I for one have never seen it requested. There are so many threads I never read.

xp it's also a fairly reasonable assumption that not every single person who posts here does so with the same depth of attention to detail and desire to know the ins and outs of everything that goes on

in the case of Doran I don't think I've ever seen him post outside of ILM

This is the crux of it though isn't it? I had no idea. I've apologised three times now and I'll do it again.

I'm really very sorry.

I understand it must be tiring but does it warrant me being called a liar speaking 'bullshit'?

This is the first time I've ever, ever, ever posted on a non-music topic. Why on Earth would I know?

You wouldn't. Bramwell overreacts, most ppl're aware of how she behaves on here

xp I believe you, I'm just saying that if you *know a poster well enough to know their real name*, and keep up with the same 'depth of attention to detail' as to their various username changes, you might have read one of the many posts that they have posted on this topic.
I am not trying to sound arsey - in fact I think you and I have friends in common.

You don't KNOW her, how DARE you say that