Transport in London is shit

After about a half-hour wait, no bus came for the first part of my journey, so I walked about 45 mins (luckily it's a lovely day, and I'm fat as shit so it's good for me), but for the second part of my journey I rode a replacement bus of some impressive vintage - it literally smelled like moth balls! The outside was a much lighter red, and the inside had hard orange benches and lime green piping along the interior roof. It was kind of cool. Got there, anyway, and the driver wasn't charging anyone (do they usually not charge during strikes?)

Charing Cross Hospital is a mess again, but pro-strike people see that as acceptable collateral damage (or a necessary evil) it seems

replacement bus services are free

Take it up with Boris Johnson (xp)

what's happened to charing cross hospital?

re: bus lanes would that not mean they all get snapped by the on bus bus stop cameras and they all get busted?

bus stop/bus lane cameras?

(xx-post) We have to travel back and forth to the hospital several times a week, which is thrown into chaos during tube strikes. For example, home visits for cancer carers are canceled; daily radiotherapy and chemotherapy schedules fall to pieces because people can't make it there - the effects there can be felt for months afterwards. Charing Cross is the oncology hub for Imperial College for several disciplines so people have to travel from very far away and count on the tubes (for many of them, buses aren't an option and they can't afford car services/cabs).

I just feel that supporters of the tube strikes who say or imply that people who are against them are simply complaining about being inconvenienced don't actually understand the extent to which these things affect people who struggle on a good day and really depend on the service.

Isn't much of the point of the strike to show that their jobs aren't dispensable and people do depend of them, and that Boris Johnson's plans also affect people who struggle and depend on them?

lol, u madd

Isn't much of the point of the strike to show that their jobs aren't dispensable and people do depend of them, and that Boris Johnson's plans also affect people who struggle and depend on them?

this.

Like, I don't want to appear glib about this - I can't imagine much that's more stressful than having to undergo serious medical procedures, and having that experience made worse but travel chaos and so on. But can you not understand that the people on strike are doing so because they fear for the loss of their livelihood and the worsening of their working conditions? Can you seriously argue against their logic when you realise that it is only through the tactics of the late Bob Crow that, as Ken Livingstone put it, tube drivers are the only working class people in London with decent wages right now.

I guess what I mean to say is, your saying I just feel that supporters of the tube strikes who say or imply that people who are against them are simply complaining about being inconvenienced don't actually understand the extent to which these things affect people who struggle on a good day and really depend on the service. is actually simply evidence of a self-centredness and naivity on your part, to be honest. I'm guessing the majority of the people supporting the strikers do understand the extent to which the strike will seriously affect people; they just don't believe that the importance of the service the tube workers provide should mean they can't fight for their rights in the face of a right-wing government which is seeking to seriously impoverish them.

Why aren't you angry at Boris, etc, for their part in this situation, instead of just blaming the strikers? Because its impacting you in a personal way, and therefore you don't feel the need to see the bigger picture or feel empathy with the strikers or their cause?

the London Underground is one of the great public transport services in the world as far as I can tell and clearly a good part of that is the staff. those who deal with the public daily in ticket offices and in the stations are helpful, v professional and often good-humoured in my experience.

Anyone who regularly uses the tube will realise the importance of having generally available staff and staff who can help with ticketing issues and money (whether in the form of hard cash or other reimbursements or mischarges).

London is also one of the biggest tourist destinations in the world, most of whom will use the tube at some point.

Nothing about the ticket office proposals makes sense other than as an expression of wishing to cut the flow of money into the service and reduce the number of excellent staff, putting more pressure on those who remain.

Of course they should strike. It's the only serious weapon of any meaningful power against corporate management and concerted anti-public funding politicians, who will otherwise go ahead unopposed.

Bob Crow managed to ensure members of the RMT were the only public sector workers at that level whose wages kept broadly in line with inflation, an achievement managed in part through a militant use of the strike threat.

The discomfort felt by people affected by the strike, which emphasises the importance of the service and policies designed to detract from it, is thus caused by the policy not the strike - any other interpretation is short-sighted, and indicative of an inability to distinguish proximal from distal causes.

Seems like every time I have to go down to London there's a tube strike on. bugger. google says it takes about 40 minutes to walk from Kings cross to blackfriars - does that sound about right?

( btw that is not intended as criticism of the strikers, just my bad luck. more power to their bits)

Maybe 30 if it's a nice day, you walk fast and your route is Gray's Inn Road-->High Holborn-->Farringdon Road/Street-->Blackfriars.

Northern Line nice and empty-ish. Scuppered any notion of WFH.

refused to take the tube today despite service on the victoria line, am i crazy or are others doing this too

Thomas, you can get the 63 bus which is generally not too badly affected by tube strikes because the only bit of tube it replicates is Kings Cross - Farringdon.

xp I try never to cross picket lines but I've been lucky only having to walk round-trip from the office in EC1 where I've been working on some copywriting.

I believe that any action that keeps sick people from care is a fundamentally flawed action, and that the Tube is an essential service - and that probably comes from me growing up under Taylor Law. But I'll just leave it as me being called self-centered and naive for that. Sort of locks the whole thing down for me.

i'm boycotting during the strike too, wasn't really an inconvenience today but my trip from tooting to charing cross tomorrow seems like it'll be a bit of an adventure...

DUDE. train from maryland to lpool street, an empty 23 to oxford circus - i got this on lock, let's do this every day

Bus was 1 hour late getting into work yesterday, today it was like 10 minutes early!

Walter, wouldn't closing ticket offices also "keep sick people from care" - to a much lesser degree, but on a permanent, ongoing basis? wouldn't reducing tube staff numbers by almost 1000 diminish the essential service that these sick people need? the RMT is fighting to KEEP these things!!

Much easier to hate the little people in front of you than focus your ire on the big people who are actually to blame.

Also much easier to believe you are the only person in the world who matters than consider the people who provide you services also deserve to be treated like human beings.

i think Walter's coming at this from a "first, do no harm" POV - that all parties should put the needs of ill tube customers first. a narrow but i think defensible position. but Walter we're saying you haven't thought through where the long-term harm is coming from (management and the mayor) and what it consists of (less assistance for "non-ideal" customers). yes there is potential short-term harm as a result of the strike but it was announced well in advance and has a quite finite duration. and at the risk of sounding insensitive, i don't see why buses "aren't an option". they serve all of london.

Where is everybody today? I was super early at work too

Cycled in v early via a different route that avoided going anywhere near the centre (Brixton > Battersea bridge > Shepherd's Bush). It was more or less fine.

Hyde Park Corner going back yesterday was like armageddon. Will leave early as well.

Just echoing what everyone else is saying to the ironically-handled Walter Galt. Blaming the strikers for the actions of a lying sack of shit mayor is classic divide-and-rule stuff that leaves *everyone* who's not a gajillionaire totally unsatisfied.

This is one of those occasions when living in suburban South London is definitely a blessing from a personal impact PoV. There's an extensive overground rail network, it's no busier out in Z3/4 than it would be normally, and I personally don't need to get a bus upon arrival at the terminus. The Tube (+ bus from Brixton) is something I get in the evenings when I can't be bothered to walk up a 10% hill to my house (but it's no quicker).

Who is Walter Galt?

Walter, wouldn't closing ticket offices also "keep sick people from care" - to a much lesser degree, but on a permanent, ongoing basis? wouldn't reducing tube staff numbers by almost 1000 diminish the essential service that these sick people need?

I don't know. I don't think so, necessarily, but I don't think anyone really knows. But while that discussion happens, I don't believe that people should be put at risk. A 'narrow' position, maybe, but one that still begs the question 'why are people who depend on the service for something like daily cancer treatment - as one example - 'selfish' for thinking that their very real needs could be considered in the discussion about how to preserve the jobs of these employees?'

I don't believe that 'you're out of luck for a few days while we sort this out' is okay. I think the mayor is an asshole too - like everything in this, it's not as simple as "your anger should be focused at him, not the strikers."

Also much easier to believe you are the only person in the world who matters than consider the people who provide you services also deserve to be treated like human beings.

What an awful thing to say.

Terrible thing. AWFUL!

But, y'know, kind of where you're at?

I always thought that certain people were exaggerating when they described the supposed behaviour of "Thatcherbabies" or whatever. But then, this bloke is actually proving that people who grew up under Reagan and Thatcher and their policies really do have completely warped ideas about the rights and responsibilities of workers and employers and who owes whom what.

how bad would their working conditions have to be for you to absolve tube workers of their apparent duty of care to the personal needs of all customers, walter?

Walter, wouldn't closing ticket offices also "keep sick people from care" - to a much lesser degree, but on a permanent, ongoing basis? wouldn't reducing tube staff numbers by almost 1000 diminish the essential service that these sick people need?

I don't know.

Come on.

http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1368/55/1368559197838.gif

I'm open to this stuff; I'm not from here and I'm just trying to understand it. And I admit a very heavy emotional involvement. I just don't think that my belief that people shouldn't be put at serious risk over these discussions means that I believe "I'm the only person in the world who matters" (I said it's an awful thing to say because you don't know me; what I'm dealing with; and outside of my initial post, which I've discussed further, I actually haven't said anything nearly hyperbolic enough to suggest I feel that way. So it comes across as quite aggressive and cruel).

I've admitted that my previous experience with this kind of thing has been in the context of the Taylor Law, which, whether or not you agree with all of it, I feel puts human safety first by ensuring a situation where these discussions can happen without a gap in the service for people who need it.

Oh, re: an earlier point: i don't see why buses "aren't an option". they serve all of london.

Packed, jostling buses are a much more painful & even violent journey - I don't know if you've taken any in the last 48 hours but they're quite a different experience than a normal bus ride

personally hate a bus

I rode a bus yesterday; it was fine. It was also fine during the last tube strike, when I was using a cane to hobble round on account of an injury. And the idea of these "packed, jostling, painful and violent" buses... as opposed to the spacious, comfortable and non-confrontational tube carriages during rush hour? Really? I'll take a bus before I take a tube any day, tube strike or no.

My question would be: what would hospitals and care services do in the event of an accident on the tube? What if parts of the tube service broke down because of lack of maintenance or safety? Are there plans in place for those eventualities? Why can't they be used in the case of a tube strike?

You're basically saying nothing that doesn't boil down to "the tube is an invaluable and indispensable part of living in London and its services should be protected at all costs." Which is exactly what the striking workers are saying. Their point, you are proving it.

Crowds and noise and maybe being pushed or falling or etc are a whole different thing when you're frail and in pain, I know that first-hand and I've heard it from friends with significant injuries or illnesses. So while the families of patients could arguably just switch to a bus with the rest of London, I do get that patients' needs are different and profound.

On the other hand the Taylor Law looks like total bullshit that primarily serves the needs of the owners, and only benefits users of public services by accident.

Oh that was an xp btw.

Packed, jostling buses are a much more painful & even violent journey - I don't know if you've taken any in the last 48 hours but they're quite a different experience than a normal bus ride

... and still less packed and jostling than your average rush hour tube journey.

.. oh BB more or less said the same thing a couple of post previously

If you're frail, or in pain, or use a wheelchair, and you need help to get on or off a tube train, I would think that you would have an added incentive to keep all tube stations fully staffed at all times. Because that is something I do currently see on a regular basis, on my journeys: people with disabilities being facilitated in their journeys by TFL staff. With Boris' cuts, what will happen to them?

Get a bus instead

I would imagine that if one were severely negatively impacted by the strikes during a time of personal illness or distress that it would be possible to be angry/upset about the strike action while simultaneously being entirely sympathetic to the ultimate aim of the strikers.

At least WG isn't one of the MANY people impacted no more severely than getting to work 15 minutes later than usual who still proclaims that the strikers are all lazy bastards who get paid plenty and shouldn't complain.