"Are you hungry? Did you eat before the POLL?"_ILM Artist Poll #51_SLEATER-KINNEY (VOTING ENDS Tuesday April 22nd at Midnight CST)

The Hot Rock was one of the last albums I copied on cassette and the first S-K album I didn't buy the week of its release. I was not at all in that head space in early '99. It took fall '00 and driving around with these two girlfriends who adored THR and playing "Get Up" and "Burn Don't Freeze" over and over.

Brownstein on the inspiration for THR:

After the performance, we were lucky enough to meet them. We ended up back at the Phoenix Hotel, half of us on mattresses, the rest of us on the floor, guitars and beers out. I asked Grant to teach me The Go-Betweens' song "Love Goes On," and I played the chords while he sang. I cannot overstate the generosity of this moment. Later that night, I told Robert that my band's album The Hot Rock — or at least my own writing and guitar playing on it — was inspired completely by their music. Before The Go-Betweens, I never thought that delicacy could wield sharp knives

love basically all their albums but 'the hot rock' is definitely the standout for me, feels like both the gentlest and most genuinely felt work they ever did. 'all hands' is my sentimental favorite because it was my first, 'one beat' i probably anticipated more than any other album ever just cause it came out at the height of my fandom but some of the lyrics make me cringe a bit now. it was a different time. 'the woods' i haven't listened to in years, probably time for a revisit.

Something I never really thought about before, and now find amazing as I look at the cd booklets and wiki, is how fast they worked and grew during the first part of their career. By all accounts, the debut was tossed off as a side project whim in Australia in '95. Then they get serious and the same band makes Call The Doctor later that year, and then Weiss comes in to replace MacFarlane in the slightly over a year gap between those sessions and the ones for Dig Me Out, which when released (only a few weeks past a year from the drop date for CTD, which--incidentally--is the very next entry in Chainsaw catalog after the debut) is the one that really establishes them (lead review in Spin etc.). Now a year and a half passes after those sessions before The Hot Rock is recorded, and a then there is a slightly shorter break before All Hands... is laid down, and it's only then that they take a studio break of any significant length, which turns out to be a little over two years wherein Tucker gets married and has a child.

And this is not even figuring in that Cadallaca, The Spells, and a few Quasi albums where also happening in the same time frame.

It's interesting how their steadily escalating profile makes it possible and even likely that people got on board at just about any point. Because they never had an actual hit, people were still discovering them right up through The Woods. I got snagged by the hype around Dig Me Out, which for me is still ground zero. But I can understand loving One Beat or All Hands if that was the point you found them. For me the albums after The Hot Rock are lesser but with lots of highlights. I could easily make up a 20-song ballot solely from the last three records. Which is to say, they were pretty great.

Also, delicacy wielding sharp knives is a great description of the guitar textures on The Hot Rock.

I love The Hot Rock most of all their records, and glad to see the love for it here! I was not aware until reading this thread that it was held in high esteem, as the critical view at the time seemed lukewarm compared to their previous two records.

god i forgot how dire the lyrics to 'combat rock' were. such a specific protest song, it hasn't aged well at all.

also even for sk shredding i forgot how much little mouth shreds

is there any other song they did that feels so much like they're chasing after their own sounds?

The Woods/The Hot Rock/Call the Doctor/One Beat/Dig Me Out/All Hands On the Bad One/s/t tho tbh I tend to forget that one even exists, tho I own it

The first two cuts on the debut are contenders for my ballot.

Looking at the tracklist yeah there's some good stuff on it, but some it (A Real Man eg) is p awful. I should hear it again tho, after all it's like 20 mins long

My initial list had 23. The surprise so far is how the albums shaked out, going in I would have thought One Beat was my favorite, but there's Dig Me Out with 8 (!) tracks in my top 20ish.

The other surprise is what a bust AHOTBO is, aside from the title track and YNRRF it's pretty awful.

god i forgot how dire the lyrics to 'combat rock' were. such a specific protest song, it hasn't aged well at all.

― wat is teh waht (s.clover), Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:58 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I actually think it's aged much better than "Far Away." But my memories of "Combat Rock" are tied to the last S-K show I saw, in early 2003 about two days before the massive worldwide antiwar protests. This song had everyone completely raging and bouncing off the walls; it felt like the building would explode. I've never experienced anything like it at a concert (or anywhere else) before or since. So, maybe it'll be for sentimental reasons (and maybe not), but "Combat Rock" will likely be near the top of my ballot.

I think protest songs're allowed to be specific tbh

The more specific a protest song -- like most things -- the better.

I saw them at two Chicago shows in fall '02 (the Quails opened): two of the most galvanic performances I've seen. They covered Springsteen's "The Promised Land." Months later they opened for Pearl Jam. The amphitheater setting diffused much of their power, as did the guys in front of me sniggering, "Who are the dikes?"

I think protest songs're allowed to be specific tbh

― sonic thedgehod (albvivertine), Wednesday, April 9, 2014 9:41 AM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This; and not only is it still relevant/does it still apply, but like all great protest songs, the specifics speak to the larger issues.

I got on board a little before they released One Beat, but the first album I listened to was Call the Doctor -- title track's power, not to mention Corin's singing, still gets me -- and then Dig Me Out. (It may have been josh blog that tipped me to them!) And yeah, it's staggering how quickly their songwriting matured from the debut to their second album -- which is great! -- to their third which for me is where they hit their mature sound.

The other surprise is what a bust AHOTBO is, aside from the title track and YNRRF it's pretty awful.

I like All Hands, but I realized upon starting my long-list that I appreciate it more as a whole entity than broken up into individual songs.

also even for sk shredding i forgot how much little mouth shreds

― wat is teh waht (s.clover), Tuesday, April 8, 2014 10:09 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Revisiting their discography for the poll, this struck me too. The "damaged goods/you wanna try her" section is so tense and powerful.

I think all their records are great, but THR and CTD really stand head and shoulders above the rest for me, such that it'd be easy for me to make 85% of my poll songs from those two records. Revisiting the whole discography will probably give me a more balanced view tho

I link them in my brain with Low, another band with a strong "core" sound that goes through a lot of big sonic shifts. Probably it helps that they both have distinct, unmistakable vocal pairings. (And both of them have hugely divisive Dave Fridmann-produced albums.)

I've actually warmed up a lot to The Woods! I forget what it was that brought me over to it, but I expect that it's going to occupy quite a lot of my ballot along with the usual suspects.

I am on record as being pro-The Woods. That first time hearing "The Fox" kick in, goddamn.

I revisited parts of The Woods last night and more than I initially thought will likely make my ballot.

But arrrg that fucking brickwalled mastering...

(also, A+ display name, Leee!)

xp

see now "Entertain" is the worst song they wrote

I still get annoyed when I remember the Stylus review saying something about how the sound/mastering was too macho to effectively battle patriarchy or some shit. xp

Hah, that and "Modern Girl" are on my shortlist. xp

(Thanks, Tarfumes!)

From that Stylus Review, with the line in question in bold:

That the band cuts out some of the chaff of “Entertain” when they join the rank and file on our TV dial is only the latest example of S-K revealing just how unaware they are. You can’t upend the patriarchy while emulating the Who. Begging people to not listen to your music without the artwork while sending liner-free promos out four months in advance is a joke and it’s absurd to decry entertainers while having people pay to watch your increasingly jam-filled performances. The tension between desire and reality has always been the band’s source of power, but residual affection aside, their woes are becoming pathological and the last thing we need are more preening rock gods demanding our sympathy, male or female.

http://www.stylusmagazine.com/reviews/sleater-kinney/the-woods.htm

da croupier, get in here!

Such a weird, misguided paragraph.

You can’t upend the patriarchy while emulating the Who.

I just can't fucking even...

it’s absurd to decry entertainers while having people pay to watch your increasingly jam-filled performances.

That doesn't even make any sense.

(not that the Who line made any goddamn sense)

Which reminds me, the other highlight of the '03 show I saw was the unexpected (to me, but I'd only seen them once before, in 2000), overwhelming, and distinctly Live at Leeds-esque excursion near the end.

I think protest songs're allowed to be specific tbh

― sonic thedgehod (albvivertine), Wednesday, April 9, 2014 9:41 AM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This; and not only is it still relevant/does it still apply, but like all great protest songs, the specifics speak to the larger issues.

― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, April 9, 2014 10:07 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Where is the questioning where is the protest song? /
Since when is skepticism un-American? /
Dissent’s not treason but they talk like it’s the same /
Those who disagree are afraid to show their face

this is precisely my problem -- its about this oddly specific moment when it felt like saying anything at all was forbidden, and flags were hanging out of every window and nobody could question.

and all it really said was "hey i'm questioning but look hi everyone i'm just expressing skepticism and that's not un-American and i'm not a traitor" which is like the worst rallying cry ever.

its a timid track, which is masked by the strength of the music. but the further away from the moment we are, the more obvious how little ambition it expressed.

here's what i wrote at the time (yikes!)

The no-new-wavisms reach their turbulent peak on “Combat Rock” which minces around the spirit of a protest song in shrill pantomime invocations well executed enough to make me feel complicit in things which I had nothing to do with. Corin sings something about oil and machines but mainly we get the sense she’s put out because she’s told she can’t dissent. That the new world order provides opportunities for rebellion for the hell of it on a new and broader plane, and she’s damn pissed off she’s gonna have to be the one to write a song about it. Because in the final analysis the political is political and the truth of the matter is the personal should stay the heck out of it. But don’t tell that to Corin, who’ll just sing louder.

really their first NPR-ready work :-(

(also this reminded me of a track that not only didn't age well, but didn't start well -- Le Tigre's "new kicks". its pretty stunning how poorly the 90s' politics of the personal failed to translate, aesthetically, when dealing with big world events)

(their covers of fortunate son were a much better approach to this stuff, imho)

(xxposts, i also made a who comparison, which makes total sense, but considered it an obvious positive)

(their covers of fortunate son were a much better approach to this stuff, imho)

Grisso, are we allowed to vote for "Fortunate Son," or actual releases only?

I am on record as being pro-The Woods. That first time hearing "The Fox" kick in, goddamn.

― Simon H., Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:55 PM (41 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Oh yes. That was probably the last time I did the whole "go and hang out at the record store to buy the album at midnight" thing (not that I haven't wanted to since, but the custom just went away), and I still vividly remember getting home and popping in the cd for the first time. I'd managed to avoid hearing any of the music in advance, but I'd read some stuff. Still, nothing could prepare me for...that.

Related: Eddie Vedder being embarrassing interviewing Sleater-Kinney for Magnet upon the release of The Woods

XP If you want to vote for the covers, cool. "Fortunate Son" was eligible any way, as a recording of it was featured on the charity comp Wed-Rock: A Benefit for Freedom To Marry.

Oh! Thanks.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61qKa10EPTL._SY300_.jpg

Looks like I have some further investigating to do! :D

Speaking of their covers, this rules:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyZ0tBqOqTA

this is precisely my problem -- its about this oddly specific moment when it felt like saying anything at all was forbidden, and flags were hanging out of every window and nobody could question.

This wasn't the first time that had happened, not by a long shot, and likely won't be the last.

and all it really said was "hey i'm questioning but look hi everyone i'm just expressing skepticism and that's not un-American and i'm not a traitor" which is like the worst rallying cry ever.

That one line -- "Since when is skepticism un-American?" -- is easily the weakest, granted.

its a timid track, which is masked by the strength of the music. but the further away from the moment we are, the more obvious how little ambition it expressed.

here's what i wrote at the time (yikes!)

I think you want the song to be something it's not trying to be. It's not (entirely) a Clashy stirring rallying cry; it's trying to work through some shit on its way there.

The delivery on the "skepticism" line doesn't do it any favors, either.

It's the lyrical equivalent of this fucking thing:
http://i1.cpcache.com/product/13993015/american_flag_peace_sign_tree_ornament.jpg?height=240&width=240

Relevant (from the interview I posted upthread):

Vedder: OK, I wanted to share something with you. It's 2003, a year before the elections. This is when it's not so popular to be wearing a peace sign on your sleeve or speaking out against the war in Iraq. And you saw the Dixie Chicks and then us thrown on the fire as not being patriotic. All of a sudden, Pearl Jam was part of the "activists of evil." As Pearl Jam and Sleater-Kinney were going through Oklahoma, or wherever we were, at the end of the show we'd play "Rockin' In The Free World." I remember the music still going and I was holding hands with Corin, and with our other hands we were flaring out the peace sign. There were a lot of people in the crowd who seemed offended by it, and I remember - and Corin, I never told yo this at the time, because I wanted to keep doing it - being afraid that something bad was going to happen. That you would be assassinated, or you'd be holding the hand of someone being assassinated. I felt really incredibly vulnerable up there. Do you remember how you were feeling at the time?

Tucker: I remember being so blown away at our first show with you guys in Denver. And it was the first week of the war. We got up in Denver and blabbed about the war and were booed by about 10,000 people. It was really shocking. I felt like I was suddenly six years old and taking a really hard, cold slap to the face. But it made me really angry, and anger for me can override anything. The fear is secondary to that feeling of "shut up." That's what I felt like at that moment: someone saying "shut up" to me. And I was like, "OK, now you're really asking for it." I would try to think about creative ways to say something during those shows when things were so tense. And there's also the feeling of, "OK, we're going to get fired. Someone's going to fire us." [Laughter] Not you.

Vedder: Someone higher up. [Laughter]

Tucker: But what was going on in the world was so awful that I can't imagine performing in front of all those people and not saying something. And I couldn't imagine you not doing it, either. And you did it every night to people who were so angry. It just has to come up, because you are relating to these people honestly.

Vedder: I was particularly energized by the solidarity. It wouldn't have been the same without all you guys up there, and to be able to hold your hand and stand together, it was like, "smile it. I'll take the bullet. This is important." So Sleater-Kinney will be on tour before Pearl Jam is, and you'll be facing a country that failed to do its civic duty to educate itself and vote properly in this last election. Do you hold it against a certain state, like Ohio, before you even get there?

Tucker: I think the people who come to see us are the ones who are like, "Man, this country is fucked." There's not gonna be a lot of Republicans coming to see Sleater-Kinney. Maybe a few, and they might write on the Internet, "We're so annoyed that you're so vocal about these things. But we still like your music."

Brownstein: At a Sleater-Kinney show, there's a slightly more homogenous political atmosphere. Which, in some ways, is frustrating. At a Pearl Jam show, there is that danger of playing and talking in front of people who have different views than you. That really drove the writing on this record. It's scary to get bigger, but there's something exciting about realizing that maybe your music is transcending something and you're not just preaching to the converted. If you say something pro- or anti- a certain politican, you might be met with resistance. Resistance isn't necessarily a bad thing for art. In some ways, it fuels it.

Tucker: That's what's so great about Pearl Jam: You actually have the possibility of asking someone to think in a different way than they might. That's what rock 'n' roll used to be. People would do things that were crazy and would upset people.

to be fair lots of us male critics wrote dumb or garbled shit about SK, including me.

this is precisely my problem -- its about this oddly specific moment when it felt like saying anything at all was forbidden, and flags were hanging out of every window and nobody could question.

well yeah but as responses go, compare e.g. phil ochs "i'm going to say it now."

"And I know that you were younger once 'cause you sure are older now / And when I've got something to say, sir, I'm gonna say it now."

that's how it's done.

Finishing it up here.

sent!

sent!

sent!

Hey Some Dude: Check your inbox. Pollster got a question.

sent also

some dude's ballot nothing but pearl jam songs corin sang backup on at a show once

Carrie playing arpeggios in an attempt to mimic "Yellow Ledbetter" at #11 with a bullet.

ughhhhhhhhh i'm still cramming my "songs that could go on my ballot" list

clearly i remember
pickin on some dude

at home makin ballots
all pearl jam songs
w/ 'black' on top
ranked it number one

i voted for 2 songs that get counted together, apparently. so i threw in more Hot Rock.

Instead of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_K7k-zIgSo

From the comments:

I was at that concert, but I didn't get to see Sleater Kinney because my friends were getting wasted in the parking lot.

Sent in my very bizarre ballot. My great shame as a S-K fan is that I never grabbed a $10 Call the Doctor LP during my heyday with the band and have only just now started to dig into what I think most people consider one of their top couple records. Can't wait for results - thanks again to C. Grisso!

In One More Hour, I close this poll...

Have had The Day I Went Away in my head all day, maybe should've found room for it, oh well

I can't check stuff right away, so if anybody needs til midnight Portlandia time (2 hours from now), polls will remain open til then.

sweet. I got totally preoccupied with something else and forgot this until about 3 minutes ago.

Polls are closed. Words, guitar, milkshakes'n'honey to come.

Alright, I've got the sidepolls finished, and am now getting started on breaking the master tracks spreadsheet down into a ranked list. I'm not sure how long that list will be. I'll get a new thread going once I've got that settled.

Thanks again to everyone that voted! It's been exciting to see the ballots come in, as from the outset it's been a pretty tight race, and--to mix metaphors--by the end it became quite the figurative shoot-out.

woo

Have the main poll rankings worked out. We will have a Top 50. Stand by for results thread launch with the sidepolls.

yesssss

RAH.

If for no other reason, I'm anxious to see what the title pun will be!

"I'm The Queen of Rock and POLL!!!!!!"_ILM Artist Poll #51_SLEATER-KINNEY_ RESULTS THREAD