"And ultimately everything that happens from here on out (whether they get back together or he goes to jail or his career is damaged beyond repair) rests on what she does and says now, which is why we're speculating on her actions and not his."
Except it doesn't. His career can still recover even if she doesn't get back together with him or forgive him publically or whatever. Fans tolerate the most awful shit.
― Alex in SF, Thursday, 5 March 2009 22:40 (fifteen years ago) link
yeah, Dan, i believe that that's likely part of the reason why ne-yo said what he did, but it still strikes me as an irresponsible statement vis-a-vis domestic violence.
You'll have no disagreement from me on that.
― Wes HI DEREson (HI DERE), Thursday, 5 March 2009 22:41 (fifteen years ago) link
i hope jay-z has a hit out on him soon.
― straight up, you're payin' jacks just to hear me phase (M@tt He1ges0n), Thursday, 5 March 2009 22:41 (fifteen years ago) link
Not to get into the debate of comparing the crimes of the two, but R Kelly has certainly escaped the taint of some pretty indefensible shit with his career intact.
― ban everyone imho (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 5 March 2009 22:43 (fifteen years ago) link
maybe, Alex (although I kinda doubt it). but the chance of CB ever having a hit again (or, say, not going to jail) would be 100x greater if Rihanna is back with him and publicly forgives him, etc.
― let "free dom" ring (some dude), Thursday, 5 March 2009 22:44 (fifteen years ago) link
R. Kelly, in his utterly mediocre defense, at least had the advantage of being with willing partners (even though he should still be in jail).
― Wes HI DEREson (HI DERE), Thursday, 5 March 2009 22:44 (fifteen years ago) link
Uh did you read the thing above? I think her forgiving him is going to hurt her. It's not really going to help him.
― Alex in SF, Thursday, 5 March 2009 22:45 (fifteen years ago) link
the nature of CB's image and fanbase has at least much to do with why the R. Kelly comparison has no practical applications as the nature of the crime
― let "free dom" ring (some dude), Thursday, 5 March 2009 22:46 (fifteen years ago) link
Yeah, I agree with that, too.
― Wes HI DEREson (HI DERE), Thursday, 5 March 2009 22:46 (fifteen years ago) link
i think it can hurt her AND help him but it's all kind of hard to predict
Okay, thats why I added my disclaimer beforehand, he was just the first high-profile R&B star I pulled out that was accused of some pretty repugnant shit and escaped with a mostly intact career.
(xpost)
― ban everyone imho (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 5 March 2009 22:47 (fifteen years ago) link
True. I would just say that as a general rule domestic abuse is not a career ender. It might be in Brown's case though. Obv the fact that the victim is at least as famous as he is makes it somewhat different than oh lets say James Brown or whomever.
― Alex in SF, Thursday, 5 March 2009 22:49 (fifteen years ago) link
That is an xp.
I wouldn't say R. Kelly's career is "mostly intact"; to my (admittedly limited) knowledge, his sales have decreased dramatically since the allegations, turning him back into a niche act rather than a crossover (although lol I wonder how much of that was because after 1000 installments of "Trapped in the Closet", people started going "wau okay, he is seriously ill and we shouldn't encourage this").
I have no evidence to back this argument up so I won't be investing in defending it; it's an impression I've formed that is likely incorrect.
― Wes HI DEREson (HI DERE), Thursday, 5 March 2009 22:50 (fifteen years ago) link
yeah dan's otm - after the trial wrapped his career has been nill, and it's not like the label buried him
― wow heaven is cool (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 5 March 2009 22:51 (fifteen years ago) link
R. Kelly definitely went a little down in album sales and is more an R&B star than a pop star but he still has had such an insane run of hits since then (particularly 03-05 at the height of the controversy) that you can't really say it slowed him down. I think the quiet around his career lately has less to do with the trial than the fact that "Hairbraider" was no "Ignition."
― let "free dom" ring (some dude), Thursday, 5 March 2009 22:54 (fifteen years ago) link
Double Up sold 1.4 million copies and debuted at number one, boy I'd love to have a "nil career" like that.
― ban everyone imho (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 5 March 2009 22:54 (fifteen years ago) link
the trial Jordan was referring to was June of last year
― let "free dom" ring (some dude), Thursday, 5 March 2009 22:55 (fifteen years ago) link
My mistake, I thought Double Up was out after the trial. But really, the court of public opinion weighed in long before his trial ever actually happened.
Anyway, way too long spent on a tossed off comparison.
― ban everyone imho (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 5 March 2009 22:56 (fifteen years ago) link
While R. Kelly has a career (sex crimes don't hurt your rep as much when you're a self-professed sex fiend), it sure put the kibosh on that Celine Dion crossover shit, U Saved Me or no.
while this is true, even then I can't see him getting away with much more than a chorus on a rap hit, i.e. Ja Rule's "Thug Lovin' (feat. Bobby Brown)." All that "ooh girl i wuv you forever and ever" shit is out the window.
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 March 2009 22:57 (fifteen years ago) link
everyone vote for CHRIS BROWN for the Nickelodeon Kids' CHoice Awards for "Favorite Male Singer"!!!!
http://www.nick.com/kids-choice-awards/vote.jhtml?categoryVote=10
― autogoblin (surfboard dudes get wiped out, totally), Thursday, 5 March 2009 22:59 (fifteen years ago) link
i don't know, it'll be interesting to see what the public memory span is on this
― Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Thursday, 5 March 2009 22:59 (fifteen years ago) link
I mean yeah R. Kelly can still have a Top 20 hit with Young Jeezy if he wants, but the dude used to be able to get on shit like the Space Jam soundtrack.
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 March 2009 23:00 (fifteen years ago) link
Will the 2008 Fave Male Singer have "Exclusive" ownership over the category again in '09?
― autogoblin (surfboard dudes get wiped out, totally), Thursday, 5 March 2009 23:01 (fifteen years ago) link
I think it is pretty safe to say that Chris Brown will not have the same career he has now when this is "over".
― Alex in SF, Thursday, 5 March 2009 23:02 (fifteen years ago) link
also chris brown and rihanna are robots as far as we know personality-wise - they weren't talk show staples before this shit. It's a lot easier for a guy to say "hey i put my thing somewhere i shouldn't have" than "hey i shouldn't have brutalized my famous girlfriend" and it's not like he's got that Hugh Grant charm in the first place. No reason to assume he was destined for icon status anyway.
― da croupier, Thursday, 5 March 2009 23:04 (fifteen years ago) link
chris brown always seemed kinda boring anyway IMO.
― straight up, you're payin' jacks just to hear me phase (M@tt He1ges0n), Thursday, 5 March 2009 23:05 (fifteen years ago) link
rhianna is way way better
― straight up, you're payin' jacks just to hear me phase (M@tt He1ges0n), Thursday, 5 March 2009 23:06 (fifteen years ago) link
yeah I thought he was a cardboard cutout until I saw him on the VMAs last year (I think?)...that whole solo dance routine thing he did was completely mind blowing. like next mj level
― autogoblin (surfboard dudes get wiped out, totally), Thursday, 5 March 2009 23:07 (fifteen years ago) link
hmmm never saw that will youtube.
the only thing i've seen of his multiple times is that one david banner song that was "okay"
― straight up, you're payin' jacks just to hear me phase (M@tt He1ges0n), Thursday, 5 March 2009 23:10 (fifteen years ago) link
um turns out it was actually a CB AND Rihanna performance.
― autogoblin (surfboard dudes get wiped out, totally), Thursday, 5 March 2009 23:11 (fifteen years ago) link
maybe I'm thinking of something else. i don't know.
― autogoblin (surfboard dudes get wiped out, totally), Thursday, 5 March 2009 23:12 (fifteen years ago) link
you're thinking of the performance from the vmas in vegas
― wow heaven is cool (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 5 March 2009 23:13 (fifteen years ago) link
I love the "Wall to Wall" remix with Jada
― autogoblin (surfboard dudes get wiped out, totally), Thursday, 5 March 2009 23:15 (fifteen years ago) link
OH MY LORD.
― ilxor, Thursday, 5 March 2009 23:23 (fifteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF, Thursday, March 5, 2009 5:40 PM (1 hour ago)
okay, but sponsors and (hopefully) radio stations and labels may not. sure, suits jumped right into shit like jay-z vs nas beef b/c there wasnt really a bad guy...but if rihanna, one of the biggest pop stars in the world, (again, hopefully) takes a position like "fuck this guy, he brutally beat and near killed me," how can u see anyone monetarily, publically backing CB?
sorry if this had been addressed already havent read all posts
― the thick man from the late "imp!" clusterfucks (k3vin k.), Friday, 6 March 2009 00:19 (fifteen years ago) link
Radio stations and record labels follow the money. If there is money to be made off Chris Brown, reformed, repentant, born-again, whatever, radio will play him and record labels will release his music.
― Alex in SF, Friday, 6 March 2009 00:22 (fifteen years ago) link
It may take a year or two (or more or even more than that if he goes to jail) but Chris Brown is a very nice looking guy with a small modicum of talent. It is not beyond impossible to believe that he could reinvent/repackage himself to a forgiving public.
― Alex in SF, Friday, 6 March 2009 00:25 (fifteen years ago) link
yeah pop music world is plenty happy to accomodate child molestors, rapists, murderers, wife beaters, etc. get real
― One of the Most High Profile Comedy Directors of the 90s (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 6 March 2009 00:29 (fifteen years ago) link
This is appalling, and I'm more horrified at myself than anyone, but I'm pretty sure that I could be part of that forgiving public if he released the right single.
― Plaxico (I know, right?), Friday, 6 March 2009 00:32 (fifteen years ago) link
I certainly own records by convicted murderers, rapists, wife beaters and child molestors (note: I'm not proud of this fact, just saying is all.)
― Alex in SF, Friday, 6 March 2009 00:35 (fifteen years ago) link
yeah yeah sorry I meant k3vin should "get real"
cuz yeah I certainly own records by all those types too and I bet pretty much every music fan does
― One of the Most High Profile Comedy Directors of the 90s (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 6 March 2009 00:43 (fifteen years ago) link
this is all wrong that by rihanna forgiving him means he has a chance at regaining public approval. wtf? he should be in jail. shouldn't be a matter for conjecture; he beat the shit out of her. why should he be allowed to drop a dope-ass tune? give it to someone else.
― or something, Friday, 6 March 2009 00:45 (fifteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF, Thursday, March 5, 2009 6:25 PM (20 minutes ago) Bookmark
i think this is otm
― wow heaven is cool (J0rdan S.), Friday, 6 March 2009 00:46 (fifteen years ago) link
I had never even heard of him prior to this beatdown thing and this has been such a media feeding-frenzy that of COURSE he is gonna have a comeback. Don't you guys pay any attention at all to how media narratives work? It goes - rise to stardom>>triumph>>fall from grace>>redemption/comeback
― One of the Most High Profile Comedy Directors of the 90s (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 6 March 2009 00:49 (fifteen years ago) link
lol u old shakey
― wow heaven is cool (J0rdan S.), Friday, 6 March 2009 00:50 (fifteen years ago) link
jk but dude is one of THE massive pop stars of this decade
good argument itt but we really need a voice of reason here
― wow heaven is cool (J0rdan S.), Friday, 6 March 2009 01:16 (fifteen years ago) link
this is how I talk^
― Plaxico (I know, right?), Friday, 6 March 2009 01:22 (fifteen years ago) link