Matthew Barney: C/D?

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Monster Garage = BETTER THAN MATTHEW BARNEY ON ALL LEVELS

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 14 July 2003 06:01 (twenty years ago) link

and more useful! .......or poor, poor, wealthy, handsome, muscular, famous matthew! Such abuse! If I ever get wealthy, handsome, muscular and famous, will they talk about me this way?

django (django), Monday, 14 July 2003 06:07 (twenty years ago) link

see i dont think it is empty at all, i think that it is full to bursting, we just dont have the code, its like putting unleaded regular when the engine requires desiel.

anthony easton (anthony), Monday, 14 July 2003 06:42 (twenty years ago) link

wow, this car metaphor is going places!

django (django), Monday, 14 July 2003 06:45 (twenty years ago) link

well, i don't think it's "empty". it just seems that you have to show up to a Barney film with the missing half. He leaves out things, things usually fundamental to film and art in general, specifically, a point. But like I said before, it's like a frame for a painting. A plush, detailed and elaborate frame (which has it's own merits, sometimes frames a prettier than the piece itself). But the painting has to be supplied by the viewer. And not all viewers feel the desire to make up their own creation to join with it. {The Boredoms once said that they just make noise. It's the listener that makes it music.} As far as an act of communication goes, they aren't always succesful. Unless you know the "code", like Momus apparently does. But then, isn't that something children do? make up wierd little codes for themselves and their friends? It's hard not to feel excluded and nobody likes that.

django (django), Monday, 14 July 2003 06:55 (twenty years ago) link

see i dont see that at all, it is almost the triumph of art for arts sake, and really does everything have to mean someting.

and re:narrative--do you bitch to joyce about those things?

anthony easton (anthony), Monday, 14 July 2003 07:32 (twenty years ago) link

A triumph? I don't know. Of what exactly? Art for art's sake? We've been down that road so many times already! But I think I haven't explained the "meaning" part very well. There's no rule book about this stuff, so no, art doesn't have to have meaning, and I don't expect it to (especially after the last Biennial..Sheesh!), in fact I like the absence of it in his work, precicely because it lets me decide what it's all about. My personal beef with Barney, as if anyone really gives a crap, is the overwehlming attention he gets and the explainations and adoration of critic after critic.It's like fawing over Justin Timberlake while Momus gets the shaft. ..I have to sleep, this fucking thread is killing me.

django (django), Monday, 14 July 2003 07:52 (twenty years ago) link

but the critical reception for barney isnt overwhelminginly positive, even art forum who slavers over everything gave two basically negative reviews. tyler green at modern art notes calls out the hype and comdemns it as fatous, their has been discussion in the new york times about its lack of utility and in the village voice and new yorker about its cost.

it may be resepcted for his unique vision, and balls out ambition-his world creation, but hated for his lack of plot and narrative, for what many assume to be an elabortate wank job.

anthony easton (anthony), Monday, 14 July 2003 14:55 (twenty years ago) link

I think I'd like his ceramics better.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 14 July 2003 15:05 (twenty years ago) link

http://www.poster.net/koons/koons-michael-jackson-and-bubbles-2102301.jpg

Are you sure?

nickn (nickn), Monday, 14 July 2003 16:44 (twenty years ago) link

four weeks pass...
From this week's Voice:

Jump Cuts
by Michael Atkinson
August 13 - 19, 2003

Renaissance man Matthew Barney is such a busy artistic powerhouse these days (Cremaster 3's climactic movement, "The Order," is out this month on DVD), we thought we'd lend him a hand with the scenarios for the next Cremaster "cycle." No, thank you, Mr. Barney!

Cremaster 8

Wearing a bronze jockstrap, an astronaut's helmet, and a coat of mango-peach latex paint, Barney scales Angkor Wat while the Green Bay Packers sit in an empty swimming pool, taking turns to blow up a used-car-lot balloon figure of Uncle Sam through a valve on its crotch. Cambodians slowly fill up the pool with cups of guacamole. By the time Barney finishes his climb and sings "If I Can't Sell It, I'll Keep Sittin' On It," the Packers are immersed.

Cremaster 6

Whoopi Goldberg reads the Magna Carta over the Yankee Stadium PA system, as a boa constrictor slowly slithers around the bases after a remote-control toy car with a real mouse in the driver's seat. In the outfield, 30 naked women play 30 grand pianos wearing cardboard Dalai Lama masks. When the boa makes it home, fireworks erupt, spelling "I LIKE IKE" in the sky.

Cremaster 7

Strapped together with bungee cords, Barney and a proboscis monkey run through a shopping mall as members of the Bolshoi Ballet and the cast of Mummenschanz battle each other with paintball guns. Barney is dressed as Elizabeth II; the monkey is completely shaved. In Sears, they meet Udo Kier, who's trimming dwarf juniper trees with a toenail cutter. Together the trio make it to the parking lot, board a circus elephant, and ride into the sunset.

amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 17:53 (twenty years ago) link

7 sounds awesome!

geeta, Wednesday, 13 August 2003 18:06 (twenty years ago) link

I love how he lists them out of numerical order, just like the other ones.

amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 13 August 2003 18:09 (twenty years ago) link

two months pass...
so is anyone planning on seeing them at the other cinema in the next couple of weeks? and anyone else who's seen them - are they as good as this claims:

http://film.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/Critic_Review/Guardian_Film_of_the_week/0,4267,1064264,00.html

?

toby (tsg20), Monday, 20 October 2003 12:48 (twenty years ago) link

Cremaster 5 is pretty poor i think - its simply too beautiful to be interesting and doesnt really seem to have any ideas.

Cremaster 3 is good AND bad the order section in the guggenheim is magnificent and there are some genuinely disgusting and shocking images which are quite jolting. as tracer said though its slightly let down by the beauty of the images themselves they seem too gorgeous to be anything other than superficial - the chrysler section (the bulk of the film) goes on far too long.

Cremaster 2 i thought was the strongest - he gets the balance just about right - the gary gilmore murder sequence at the garage and the honey/cum fucking are good - really engaging, as are the salt flats sequences. its let down by the weakness of the relationship of these sections to the Harri Houdini/ Norman Mailer bits - the ending woth Mailer's speech pretty much ruins everything that has gone before it though.

Haven't seen 1 or 4 but i intend to. Overall they are extremely patchy but definatley worth checking out simply because they offer something you will never see the likes of at the movies. Except 5 which is like a bad Peter greenaway film.

The one thing i think that lets the cycle down overall is that the narrative is TOO STRONG. Seriously.

jed (jed_e_3), Monday, 20 October 2003 14:22 (twenty years ago) link

toby i think "it's more interesting than David Blaine" is a weak summation, and false to boot

jed u R being high

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 20 October 2003 15:52 (twenty years ago) link

high? eh?

jed (jed_e_3), Monday, 20 October 2003 15:54 (twenty years ago) link

Cremaster 5 is pretty poor i think - its simply too beautiful to be interesting and doesnt really seem to have any ideas.

but that one was my favorite! maybe even for the reasons you didn't like it. i was even very moved by it.

1 & 4 are ugly boring crap. fuck them and their ideas.

ryan (ryan), Monday, 20 October 2003 15:55 (twenty years ago) link

ideas? narrative?

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 20 October 2003 15:56 (twenty years ago) link

:)

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 20 October 2003 17:26 (twenty years ago) link

I recently saw C3, and I agree with a lot of what you're saying, Tracer. Personally, I don't have much of a problem with a lack of narrative or with "shaggy dog" stories. I'm a big fan of strangeness for the sake of strangeness; this has had me in stitches for a good week or so. I guess what gets me about Barney is the lack of joy in his strangeness. Sure, what's going on is weird, but it's Serious. It doesn't risk chaos, I think; it's too carefully orchestrated. This is probably why I liked the final part of C3 the most. That was where the film finally bubbled over into the absurd. I felt like I was allowed to laugh and engage with it much more than with the rest of the film.

Prude (Prude), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 17:29 (twenty years ago) link

cool - that is the only thing i've ever read that's made me want to see (part of) a Matthew Barney film

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 21 October 2003 17:39 (twenty years ago) link

a few exhibits at the venice biennale had really obvious barney influence (one could almost say they were slavish imitations, but that seems to give barney too much credit) ... weird slick white plasticine objects and deformities etc. they were among the most boring exhibits there.

amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 22 October 2003 14:27 (twenty years ago) link

three months pass...
Finally saw Cremaster 3's The Order DVD yesterday. It was interesting, though I'm not sure how much I actually liked it. My initial reaction: Macho Jocky Artfag Mousetrap. Then, watched a bit of the commentary and learned of the rites and mythologies of the Masonic Teen Scene influences and thought that maybe he was tapping into that for a reason. Then I decided that maybe he just tapped into that because it was obviously a great source for lots of crazy fucked up bizarre shit that he could play out. I sorta liked it. But having seen none of the others yet (or the entire C3 for that matter)...

I'll have to get to it over time.

andrew m. (andrewmorgan), Saturday, 31 January 2004 00:27 (twenty years ago) link

the order is the dumbest part of any of the films, I can't figure out why he put this out on dvd and nothing else. don't judge cremaster by this section!

anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Saturday, 31 January 2004 00:32 (twenty years ago) link

yeah it is just stupid to release this on its own although i actually love this section most of C3.

jed_ (jed), Saturday, 31 January 2004 01:17 (twenty years ago) link

Commenting on Cremaster from only seeing The Order = commenting on a movie from seeing the trailer.

dean! (deangulberry), Saturday, 31 January 2004 01:29 (twenty years ago) link

Right on. But I was only commenting on The Order.

andrew m. (andrewmorgan), Saturday, 31 January 2004 21:51 (twenty years ago) link

Yeah, not you specifically. Just in general. Many people tend to base their opinions on Cremaster solely from watching the Order (since it is most easily accessible) and it's kind of pointless ... but yes, artfag ... etc.

dean! (deangulberry), Saturday, 31 January 2004 22:30 (twenty years ago) link

four months pass...
ive just come from 4/5th of it...and im not sure what i think. i feel abused and isolated...i took this abstract seires of notes in the theatre, and i am working thru...the fifth one (the mormon one, the gary gilmore one) was the one that killed me the most, and im worried that i am projecting my own shit...cause this film is more of an open text then almost anything else

notes directly:

bagpipe music in the isle of man one is all scratchy and noisy
i really like the colour of testicles
centuar with shorn horns, ron perlman in hellboy,
escape thru tunnels, vas deferens/wombs
all this fucking lubricant
isle of man makes me reconsider girl on a motorcycle-!
swimming thru pearls, like fish roe
cod peices
doves (jacobian doves !?)
couteiers in crimson and orange--twins ?
ribbons all over the place
the lights like ovaries, the angels bless the house
opera=high code for low emotion
pink slit betwixt black leather
drums on empty stage
stuffed/inflatable
pools of water
lillies ribbons
4(goat,excess, servents, centaurs)
dancers,doves,mistresses)
baubled pairs
climbs the bean stock
black leather bodice
hand peice of two glass spheres connected by gold
two pennies
love on stage as an assumed 3rd audience, this does not
orchestra as audeince
like a whistler painting
underwater, baptism/drowning
min black on a black horse, are they dying together
winter field, black trees
emph. on footwear
naked under his cloak, white bone futursitc goves and manacles
langourus cuts
tragic, almost camp, so over time (does it realize this?)
germanic (remake of wagner)
horse rides alone (western)
dives off bridge in mantacels naked (houdini and the water sequences in 4, the centuar dives beneath the floor, handcuffed or weighted)
swelling strings
greygreen river much like the forrest (intercessional ?)
strange biomechincals (pool, shoe, robotic vaginas and anuses, unrelated or pseudorelated to ursla andress)
broad silent acting more kabuki then gish
18th centuy polychrome itaalian clupture of angelic kids
4 mermaids live under roe
full size, with fetal faces
marie attonies, wating to rise to coutiers
saphhic
barney comes in, as neptune, with red tulip feet, walks into the water, the attendants come and tie ribbons to genderless gentila, and then doves take the ribbons and fly it to the celling, pulling out (cremaster) his cock
majorettes/busby berkley one idea taken too far
sex--bees over whelming
houdini
salt flats
norman mailer (who wrote about gilmore, and gilmore is in this one)
rythimic
sacred/secert rituals in rooms shaped like honeycombs (lds deseret)
rock and roll (slayer--inside joke--cf blood revenge(ww) lds (think laban)
Brahma Bulls
rock and roll as GGs first break w. the church
Desert
wax phallus
everything overwhelmed w. bees (work, efficency but also groupthink)
matthew barney and his ego
does everything have subliminal meanings ?
(dino gas)
two cars connected by honeycomb (replacement, intercessary again, conduit)
slc tabernacle, w. 12 men--scale model
petrojelly everywhere (in the flapdown wind visor)
old fashioned american gothics (the gilmore murder/the architechture of slc)
12 apostles, 12 tribes, 12 riders, 12 flags, latter 12 bison
american/canuck flags
rodeo (angola + gary on the bull, bull dies as gary rides, sacfricial)
circle of salt,
4 beehive sentinals
cops on mounts in atheltic patterns
2nd half about drones and queens,
mounties, lakes, rocky mtns, banff springs

surreal in its most litearal sense

anthony, Sunday, 20 June 2004 06:26 (nineteen years ago) link

best poem ever

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Sunday, 20 June 2004 13:18 (nineteen years ago) link

three months pass...
has anyone seen the new cadillac ads that clearly rip off the car scenes from Cremaster 3? The cars drive into a lush building lobby, do a synchronized dance, and then a new cadillace comes tearing in and they all back off. Maybe Barney directed this but I doubt it. Can he sue them?

kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 2 October 2004 18:09 (nineteen years ago) link

i noticed that too! how weird. i almost figured it was coincidence rather than a rip off.

ryan (ryan), Saturday, 2 October 2004 18:43 (nineteen years ago) link

i saw lots of maddin and barney in skycaptains

anthony, Saturday, 2 October 2004 19:55 (nineteen years ago) link

i welcome this mainstreaming of Barney's aesthetic. next thing you know commercials will feature oozing globs of viscous fluid.

ryan (ryan), Saturday, 2 October 2004 20:46 (nineteen years ago) link

one year passes...
yeah i might go see that.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Sunday, 26 March 2006 20:50 (eighteen years ago) link

It looks like a big budget student film, but still... yeah I might go see it too.

josh in sf (stfu kthx), Sunday, 26 March 2006 20:54 (eighteen years ago) link

is this coming out in theaters or on dvd?

Jena (JenaP), Sunday, 26 March 2006 21:10 (eighteen years ago) link

theaters/museums, he'll never put this stuff on dvd if he can help it, I don't think.

I'm a little bothered by how very DV it looks; wasn't cremaster 3 shot on film?

kyle (akmonday), Sunday, 26 March 2006 21:18 (eighteen years ago) link

i think it was actually shot on an organic laminate constructed of his own intestines

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Sunday, 26 March 2006 21:23 (eighteen years ago) link

do you like him now? you def. didn't at the beginning of this thread

kyle (akmonday), Sunday, 26 March 2006 21:29 (eighteen years ago) link

i like him even less, if that's possible

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Sunday, 26 March 2006 21:30 (eighteen years ago) link

he's just so joyless - how can movies composed entirely of oblique, luxurious symbolism be so numbingly dreary?

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Sunday, 26 March 2006 21:35 (eighteen years ago) link

sometimes i feel like matthew barney is the bizarro baz luhrmann

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Sunday, 26 March 2006 21:36 (eighteen years ago) link

With hindsight on Cremaster I too like him even less than I did at the time. OTM about the dreariness. Also, I'm put off by his dependence on grandiosity and big-budget spectacle.

Not surprisingly, the Village Voice spoof Cremasters cited above sound much more fun to watch than Barney's.

Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Sunday, 26 March 2006 21:39 (eighteen years ago) link

cremaster 1 is pretty funny

kyle (akmonday), Sunday, 26 March 2006 21:44 (eighteen years ago) link

i like his shtick, in limited doses. i think i liked the installation at the guggenheim more than the movies, because it an immersion in his look and style, which i like, without having to sit still through the action (or lack thereof).

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Sunday, 26 March 2006 22:00 (eighteen years ago) link

it was an immersion, i mean

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Sunday, 26 March 2006 22:00 (eighteen years ago) link

looks awesome, despite bjork's participation

account settings (account), Sunday, 26 March 2006 22:05 (eighteen years ago) link

6.5 hours?!? no thanks

the late great, Wednesday, 29 April 2015 23:53 (eight years ago) link

three years pass...

saw this exhibit tday, p cool - https://artgallery.yale.edu/exhibitions/exhibition/matthew-barney-redoubt

johnny crunch, Monday, 4 March 2019 01:33 (five years ago) link


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