Mystery Science Theater 3000: C/D, S/D.

No worries. I'm probably the only MSTie that doesn't have any use for Rifftrax.

part of yr charm

Nah, I'm with you, Eric!

I have never heard RiffTrax.

The one for "Cool As Ice" is a riot.

I wonder if my lesser interest in RiffTrax has partly to do with it existing in the full-on Internet era (though I boned up on MST through Usenet of course). MST really was digging up forgotten blunders and making something of them, whereas, even if Rifftrax had tried to go for obscure movies, they wouldn't be by the time they got to them. Everybody knows everything, there are no secret junk movies now, and of course discovering the 'secret' was part of the appeal of MST even at the level of knowing that the show existed and was worth watching. Plus the internet made everybody a snarky talk-back critic, and very few people were very good at it.

There's just something crasser and more obvious about the whole procedure now, and I'm not sure it can be salvaged except through a return to its basic form: watching bad movies with a group of friends or quality strangers. There was a group of people in Columbus that organized something like this for years with a backyard, a projector and a sheet (the "Hillbilly Drive-In") and the times that I went it was great, great fun. Watching other people do it - and do it well - is still very appealing to me in MST3k reruns but I haven't seen any other form where it worked.

the Rifftrax concept seems odd, in that not all the movies they make fun are bad. Why Wrath of Khan? or Starship Troopers? or Jaws? (not to mention Casablanca and the Wizard of Oz)

The main draw behind Rifftrax is that it's riffing big budget mainstream movies, quality of the movie nothing to do w the quality of the riff. Also they are only doing the riffs as stand-alone audio files, which changes things entirely, so better to riff movies that everyone already owns on DVD if only for syncing purposes.

quality of the movie nothing to do w the quality of the riff.

I guess I'd have to watch some of these to be convinced of this point

surely starship troopers is a film immune to mockery

It is worth trying out Rifftrax on something like Indiana Jones & The Crystal Skull, where Mike cannot hide his disdain for everything about the movie.
Also their Twilight riff is A+.

It's a different beast to MST3K, and not for everyone. But I have gotten a kick out of quite a few of them, and I always go to the theater 'live' events when I can.

For instance, the Lord of the Rings movie got lots of acclaim, plenty of Oscar nods, etc. and yet, it is full of really silly stuff. Plus w the big budget CGI and all the serious faced EPIC drama stuff, it practically cries for someone to take the piss out of it. It makes it so much more fun, too!

otm

I went to the riff of The Night of The Living Dead not really sure how well it would work, and even Mike said beforehand 'I'll be honest, I love this movie'...but holy shit I had no idea how much time is spent during the first half of the movie just hammering pieces of wood. It was fun to see it from a different angle than my normal fangirl reverence

Well this will keep you busy

http://www.wired.com/2014/04/mst3k-oral-history/

Further to which:

http://io9.com/joel-hodgson-wants-to-resurrect-mystery-science-theater-1566056299

Never thought I would have a new favorite ep but I just saw Future War for the first time this week, and it might edge out Space Mutiny.

"FUTURE WAX!"

Haha yes. And the callback to Werewolf nearly made me spit my drink.

You people are all nuts.

"Flag on the moon. How did it get there?"

i thought the whole reason mst3k hadn't been resurrected was right issues with jim mallon? anyway given that rifftrax (and that other thing hodgson does I can't remember the name of as well) exists i'm not sure how integral puppet shadowrama really is to the whole thing.

with rifftrax my only complaint is that some of the jokes, which feel natural when they're coming from a naive fictional character like crow or servo, instead feel hokey or strained when coming from one of the guys. they tried to recapture some of the puppet-feeling with disembaudio, like in the riff for "the room" where he kept doing bits while the sex scenes were happening, but it wasn't very successful.

BTW they updated the Wired story with even more stuff!

http://www.wired.com/2014/04/mystery-science-theater-3000/

Also they are only doing the riffs as stand-alone audio files, which changes things entirely,

Oh man that is a dealbreaker. I always thought having silhouettes in the frame was a necessary for the show even though they're just dumb silhouettes or whatever. Just like what reddening is saying how it imparted puppet feeling.

Anyway I am hell of nostalgic for this show it is so classic. They used to record it a few miles from my house in Hopkins. I watched it as a little kid and it changed my life and made me a bigger nerd for which I am actually thankful. But I'll be damned if I can remember any jokes now except for stuff from the Gamara movies. Those are forever my favorites.

It'd be rad if they resurrected the show I'd totes watch.

anyway given that rifftrax (and that other thing hodgson does I can't remember the name of as well) exists i'm not sure how integral puppet shadowrama really is to the whole thing.

Cinematic Titantic no longer exists (final show at end of 2013.) Maybe that has something to do with the timing of this.

he kept doing bits while the sex scenes were happening, but it wasn't very successful

I mentioned this on the The Room thread, but jesus, those parts of the riff were awful

Set XXX (ooer missus) out tomorrow:

The Black Scorpion
Outlaw (Of Gor)
The Projected Man
It Lives By Night

Next set at the end of the year:

203- JUNGLE GODDESS with short: THE PHANTOM CREEPS PT 1
510- THE PAINTED HILLS with short: BODY CARE AND GROOMING
912- THE SCREAMING SKULL with short: ROBOT RUMPUS
1012- SQUIRM with short: A CASE OF SPRING FEVER

CABOT!

Yeah Outlaw is one of my all time favorites. The whole clutch of movies in the latter half of the fifth season after Mike took over is actually a great run.

Should also note that with the release of Black Scorpion the first season now has a complete release on DVD in full, counting two from the Rhino years. I guess with Jungle Goddess they're going to try and fill in the holes in season 2 -- dare I say it, MAYBE the Godzillas -- but they're still missing Rocketship X-M, one of the all time greats and the debut episode of both TV's Frank and Kevin Murphy as Servo.

Yeah, I'd say nearly everything from season 5.5 and 6 stands up with the best the show ever achieved.

And I say that as a still die-hard Joel stan.

Yeah I wonder if a lot of the latter day hate is less predicated on the Joel/Mike split in the end than it is Trace/Bill.

Trace/Bill is what keeps me from exploring the last few seasons - it's just jarring - but Mike hate stems from immediate post-Joel reactions on Usenet etc. I love the 5-7 Mike episodes now, and it's been kinda great to get to discover them. We're working on Sword and the Dragon which has my new favorite OTM riff from Mike himself: "This legend could have used some punching up." Also: the Coleman Francis trilogy, Zombie Nightmare, Incredible Melting Man, Escape 2000... just amazing. The only thing I really miss is the invention exchanges - without them, the effort to come up with that many good host segments starts to show. There are still some great ones, they're just spread a little thinner.

i'm far less inclined to watch the mike hosting bits than the joel ones, but the movies themselves remain top quality through the syfy years imo

gotta check if i still have my vhs dub of Squirm/Case Of Spring Fever

http://www.soundboard.com/sb/coily_sound_bytes

NO SPRIIINGS

fkn hate that guy

"You'll be the first to die!"

I keep being surprised at how many 2nd half season 5/season 6 episodes have yet to get the proper release treatment. Girls Town is so giddily great -- Mamie Van Doren, Paul Anka, Mel Torme, Elinor Donohue, the Platters, general insanity!

We tried to watch Girls Town and were really really turned off by the attempted rape that opens the movie. My girlfriend ended up writing a post about it on an MST3k Facebook group that she frequents - got a pretty mixed reaction. She wasn't condemning the Brains, just questioning their judgment, and/or looking for a somewhat stronger reaction from Mike and the Bots, like they sometimes give to indicate they're really condemning a choice by the filmmakers, not just mocking the badness with which it was made. Anyway, we ditched it for, I think, Rocketship X-M in the end.

Yes, but ... at no point in the movie is Chip's death really taken as any sort of major tragedy or miscarriage of fate/justice. The happy ending comes when both sisters are scot free and Mel Torme gets roughed up by some nuns.

Not invalidating anyone's take; just wondering if there aren't better targets.

Usually they're very attuned to icky subtexts, "ew"-ing their way through the pervasive misogyny of The Brain That Wouldn't Die, for instance.

It was kind of a triggering thing, I dunno. It kinda happens and they just sort of riff on like usual. For me, I'd have appreciated something in the vein of what they do in other scenes, a chorus of "Boos," some "Nobody wants to see this," I dunno. My girlfriend I think really would have just rather they picked a different movie. For both of us it was also a reminder that this episode was made twenty years ago - as long as the time between the early MST3k seasons and some of the movies they riffed!

Ehh, I shouldn't have said "triggering." Just super uncomfortable, touching on very bad memories, etc. But it could be for someone else, I think.

Right, the episode was 20 years ago, and the movie was 60 years ago.

Right......... just saying that the reaction from M&tB is dated in its own way. Like, I would expect literate, sharp, savvy comics in 2014 to 'catch' this scene in a different way today. Even in 1994 it would have been nice, and not out of character based on other episodes of the show where they do call this kind of thing out and make clear that they don't see it as of the same zinging order as "oh isn't this badly plotted" or "oh isn't this quaint."

I fully admit to having no real memory of that sequence. The version I had taped off of cable lopped off the first 20 minutes or so, and I never did see the rest until much later.

IIRC they aren't just simply GOOFING during that bit -- there are definitely a few grumbles from Tom and cheering Elinor's character on and all. That said, it's a good take that I'd never thought of before. (Reminds me of a viewing back in 1993/94 where a bunch of us were watching Eegah!.)

just re-watched the scene (which is longer than i remembered at a minute and a half). the jokes are pretty glib ("oh that kennedy compound," "a weasel ripped my dress -RZZZZ!"), but when the guy falls mike notes "oh look, a moral" - they're pretty glib about the dude's death too. i totally get the scene being a real sour note for the viewer based on their own experiences, but the sequence is pretty OTT in the first place and while they could have underlined a "that is not cool!" stance the way they'd tend to for scenes involving slapping, it'd be a stretch to suggest they leave open the possibility they DO think it's cool.

there's also a "hit him harder!"

if the scene didn't quickly move from "dude ripping dress" to "dude falling down ravine" - if it seemed like the director was actually trying to titillate - i bet they would have spoken up