Hilary Duff: Joy for pre-teens, not just Humbert Humbert

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>>some people treat teenpoppers the way old-school crit-dorks treat Dylan-types but seem to not do it for anyone else with the same passion

who?

To be honest, this seemed like a criticism of Kogan more than anyone else, who writes about Ashlee Simpson in the same way he writes about Dylan or the New York Dolls, probing their lyrics and their images/personalities. But it's true, I've often wondered why he focuses on Brie Larsen or Miranda Lambert and doesn't apply the same critical skills to Green Day or LCD Soundsystem, too. Not to say that Green Day or LCD Soundsystem are more deserving, of course. And it's possible he writes about that stuff elsewhere and I just haven't seen it (someone did mention an Of Montreal review he did for PTW).

― jaymc, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:16 (sixteen years ago) link

could we form a blue-ribbon committee and get a report here?

Don't forget graphs and charts. Those are always good for a laugh.

― dabug, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:19 (sixteen years ago) link

I dunno – Frank's book is pretty eclectic. But anyway, why does Scott Fitzgerald write about rich people and debutantes? Why does Greil Marcus write about Sleater Kinney? It's what they KNOW.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:20 (sixteen years ago) link

But everyone knows about indie-rock, Alfred! The whole world knows about indie rock!

― Eppy, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:21 (sixteen years ago) link

"it's what they know"

but it's what they've chosen!

― Tim Ellison, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:23 (sixteen years ago) link

homey i'm not even sure if you can read at this point

(If this was at me, I thought yr point was that happy hardcore etc. was somehow similar to the Duffster in terms of "forced ecstasy.")

when yr over 25 they're all "young ladies" dude

Who's over 25?

― dabug, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:23 (sixteen years ago) link

Yeah, I guess I'm just curious what Frank is getting from teenpop that I'm only getting in small doses. I don't expect him to be passionate about other genres (and I'm really not just talking about indie rock here), just that if he was, then I wouldn't have cause to wonder.

Mike, no offense, but your sarcasm is getting tiresome.

― jaymc, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:28 (sixteen years ago) link

75-80% of the people on this thread

― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:28 (sixteen years ago) link

haha xpost

― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:28 (sixteen years ago) link

i'm over 25! i'm 38. and just try explaining to people why you are traveling 3000 miles to read a paper about wolves and vikings and blood! see, now if it had been about the mall...

― scott seward, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:28 (sixteen years ago) link

OK, funny, because I just listened to "Beat of My Heart" and I kept thinking "this sort of sounds like 'Mr. Brightside' but defanged." The song's not horrible, but I don't hear a whole lot of character in Hilary's voice

where 'defanged' = 'feminised'? 'beat of my heart' is a very airy, light song; it's not about meaning anything, but it does convey a certain endearing...casting around for meaning, all the lines are very solid cliches of determination and resolve - "i'm not gonna drown", "i'm taking a stance", "i'll finish the deal" - but in combination, and because hilary never elaborates on any of them in the slightest, they have this questing feel to them. it's about growing up basically: "maybe if i act on...this thing that i've heard! or maybe that thing, or maybe that thing".

― lex pretend, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:29 (sixteen years ago) link

also i think 'beat of my heart' is totally ecstatic! in that you feel blank as well as blissful on e

― lex pretend, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:31 (sixteen years ago) link

the amount of purposeful obtuseness in this thread is staggering. is it like this on teenpop too?

― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:31 (sixteen years ago) link

haha oh right this is why I don't read ilm anymore.

― Eppy, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:31 (sixteen years ago) link

toodles!

― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:33 (sixteen years ago) link

can I just mention how much I love the subject line this thread has happened underneath.

― Alex in Baltimore, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:34 (sixteen years ago) link

I guess my issue is often that the songs/singers being talked about just sound really feeble to me, no "pop transcendence" or big hooks or much of anything.

if you want proper vocal skillz and are annoyed when limited singers get kudos, go harsh on some indie thread's buzz! at least teenpop singers generally hit notes.

But it's true, I've often wondered why he focuses on Brie Larsen or Miranda Lambert and doesn't apply the same critical skills to Green Day or LCD Soundsystem, too. Not to say that Green Day or LCD Soundsystem are more deserving, of course.

well what are you saying then? why should frank write about green day or lcd soundsystem? (fwiw he's commented on lcds, on poptimists; i think his thoughts can be summed up as "meh")

― lex pretend, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:35 (sixteen years ago) link

the amount of purposeful obtuseness in this thread is staggering

most of it is yours (though not as much as alex in baltimore)

― lex pretend, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:35 (sixteen years ago) link

who's being obtuse? what's a thread?

― dabug, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:36 (sixteen years ago) link

at least teenpop singers generally hit notes. at least teenpop singers generally hit notes. at least teenpop singers generally hit notes. at least teenpop singers generally hit notes. at least teenpop singers generally hit notes. at least teenpop singers generally hit notes. at least teenpop singers generally hit notes. at least teenpop singers generally hit notes. at least teenpop singers generally hit notes.

― deej, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:37 (sixteen years ago) link

^^^^^^^^^^^OBTUSE

― deej, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:37 (sixteen years ago) link

i have now realized that everyone of lex's posts can be read as the internet equivalent of "why are you hitting yourself?"

― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:38 (sixteen years ago) link

there isn't a missed note in peter, bjorn and john's "young folks," for what it's worth.

― Tim Ellison, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:38 (sixteen years ago) link

No, actually, I've been making a couple of jokes that people took literally ("who's 25?" = I AM NOT) and I misread something strongo wrote above. Otherwise I think I've been pretty much on point, except for the anarchy bit a while back.

― dabug, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:38 (sixteen years ago) link

Unless that was re: the lex (shoulda clarified cuz you pointed at me).

― dabug, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:39 (sixteen years ago) link

"pointed"

― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:40 (sixteen years ago) link

xp "i would just like to point out that i have been otm on this thread"

― deej, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:40 (sixteen years ago) link

the comment was inspired by this btw

where 'defanged' = 'feminised'?

unless it was a legitimate question, but experience tells me otherwise

― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:40 (sixteen years ago) link

haha

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:41 (sixteen years ago) link

jess has ilm completely rotted your brain over the years or is this the deliberate obtuseness you were referring to right here?

― lex pretend, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:42 (sixteen years ago) link

well, you know, if only all singers were as macho and manly as Brandon Flowers

― Alex in Baltimore, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:42 (sixteen years ago) link

OTM is relative. I just mean I haven't been obtuse in my arguments, tho I feel kinda obtuse now. Isn't ^^^ pointing to the post above? I know not your language.

― dabug, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:42 (sixteen years ago) link

i read 'beat of my heart' as without-a-care, more than anything else. its *high school movie* music, like ruby & the romantics talking in your sleep.

actually, it also reminds me a bit of things like michael mcdonald sweet freedom, but a high school version of it. a sort of naivety, optimism, even ...self-helpy a bit! but not ecstatic, i dont think it does that

and i think it does sound like early killers, theyre highschool/mall movie music too

― 696, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:43 (sixteen years ago) link

Jaymc: if you want to read Frank trying to engage with other stuff (or at least encountering other stuff), we've been playing a game on Poptimists in which people encounter music 'blind' (w/o knowing who it is etc.), and review it. Each player only had to do this with one comp the other players make for them, but Frank's been doing it for all of them, which has been interesting. He definitely seems willing to engage with all kinds of stuff - he focuses on teenpop cos not many others are, I guess, and because that's where he's finding whatever energy he looks for.

This thread seems to have hit the trenches, though.

― Groke, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:44 (sixteen years ago) link

it's certainly rotting my brain today

― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:44 (sixteen years ago) link

I'm under 25. Also - I aced my final. Score!

― Mordechai Shinefield, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:45 (sixteen years ago) link

and, you know, most of my threads pan out like this

http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=41&threadid=2955

so, its good that its discussed at all, right?

― 696, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:46 (sixteen years ago) link

where 'defanged' = 'feminised'?

No, "defanged" in that "Mr. Brightside" has a sense of tension and dynamics that "Beat of My Heart" lacks. Aly and AJ's "Rush" has it, too, for matter. I've only heard the song twice now, though, so this is just first impressions.

― jaymc, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:46 (sixteen years ago) link

this thread has inspired me download the entire hilary duff album. perhaps i will do a real time review.

― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:47 (sixteen years ago) link

which one?

― 696, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:48 (sixteen years ago) link

oh they're all good

― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:48 (sixteen years ago) link

my secret shame is that the real reason i don't like hilary duff because my ex-girlfriend did

― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:49 (sixteen years ago) link

DINGDINGDING part two

― 696, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:51 (sixteen years ago) link

way to play the sympathy card about 500 posts too late!

― David R., Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:51 (sixteen years ago) link

That Poptimists discussion sounds interesting, Tom. I haven't really looked at that group before. And I admit that I'm being somewhat unfair to Frank, who I do see (having read his book) as someone who's constantly probing all kinds of music in search of something that captures his interest. I just don't always understand why he's moved by what he's moved by.

― jaymc, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:51 (sixteen years ago) link

she was a total "poptimist" actually.

― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:52 (sixteen years ago) link

jess, did she look like...this?

http://www.contramano.net/press/images/fluxblog.jpg

― Alex in Baltimore, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:55 (sixteen years ago) link

u_u

― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:56 (sixteen years ago) link

SASSY

― David R., Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:56 (sixteen years ago) link

r.i.p. mathweena perpetua, our loved died too soon

― strongohulkington, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 18:56 (sixteen years ago) link

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