ILM Ballot Polls for 2014 and beyond -- order, timing, "I would have voted if I'd known about it," etc

It's not really the first time we've been over this, tbh - it's come up in reference to other polls with some of the same characters involved, but it played out on other threads and I wouldn't say that a final consensus was reached.

I won't be voting in the albums poll for all the above reasons, but if I'm honest I don't know if I would have anyway - I don't know as many albums as some folks and my ballot would probably be pretty corny/ignorant/naive.

obv compromise is slot all-time poll in the queue and nominations can continue until said time it's due to start.

I don't know as many albums as some folks and my ballot would probably be pretty corny/ignorant/naive.

This has never stopped me.

I'm planning on setting up a dozen socks, then all of us submitting ballots made up solely of Sgt Pepper, Blonde On Blonde, Blue, Nevermind, etc etc

in what way would that alter the results?

Why take the chance?

that's the spirit

i decided not to nom all the Nolans albums in the end, trying to keep it posi in 2014

i apologize if my 2 testy posts yesterday stirred the pot for this maybe kind of unnecessary clusterfuck. truth be told the classic rock poll will probably be sooner than later, i was just annoyed.

don't drive angry

http://www.43rdstateblues.com/images/dont-drive-angry.jpg

please do not add my request to the list thanks.

and some dude - no worries!

I regret airing out my problems with AG on this thread; AG, I apologize. My feelings don't rise to the level of hatred as you characterized them, but the difference is meaningless when I show my ass in public like that.

and some dude - no worries!

― ۩, Friday, February 14, 2014 7:06 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i wasn't apologizing to you, dingus

update: the all-time albums poll has been called off.

but, you have till Monday to vote in the Roxy Music/BF poll if you haven't yet done so.

the official word is that the all-time albums poll has been POSTPONED, not called off altogether as i initially put forward.

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/funny-gifs-want.gif

lol

Herman asked to limit conversation to the alltime poll thread but there's a couple issues raised here that I wanted to respond to:

I am not a major proponent of the all-time albums poll, but I feel like there's an underlying assumption in a lot of the attacks against it that 'all polls are created equal' that I think is at the very least wrong if not a little disingenuous. emil.y is completely correct when she says the queue was specifically put in place for artist ballot polls, which are an entirely different beast than wide-spanning genre polls. The artist polls usually take two weeks--one for voting/campaigning, one for rollout--and the ballots are basically pox thread posts. (In fact, artist polls really are just a giddy update on the whole pox thread template.) Anyways, the narrower field of nominations and the brevity of proceedings is what makes the queue feasible, because it means things are always moving forward. I know that there have been a lot of genre polls waiting their turn, but I mean, for one thing, there were other artist polls going on at the same time, moving the queue forward while the big ones were working through the nominations process and the campaigning process and allowing potential voters to explore the depth and breadth of the genre or record labels. Plus, at the risk of being egregiously presumptuous, my impression is that with polls like the disco poll or the Stax poll or the Motown poll, the pollmasters were people who had been toying with the idea for a poll but had been daunted by the task, whether because of time constraints or because of inexperience + the assumption that running a poll was an impossibly huge undertaking. But I hardly feel like if Tuomas or someone else had been gung ho and wanted to run a disco poll within the next couple months that people really would've been giving the poster that much flack. The truth of the matter is that there is room for two or three bigger polls in a year to run along side the artist poll queue. Like, what if some dude or Johnny Fever or whoever decides next year they want to do a 00s albums/tracks poll? Are they gonna have to wait til 2018 to do it then?

I think that Scik and Herman could have done a couple things differently, like acknowlegded this thread existed, brought up the idea with people here, seen if they could squeeze in, or at least maybe had taken stock of some dude's response and pushed it back a couple of months until the Classic Rock Canon (which is def a wider-spanning genre poll) had finished up (esp. since I know some dude was already a little leery of the content overlap from Herman's 70s rawk/weird poll). But this sort of back-of-the-line, sign-up sheet absolutism strikes me as a bit obtuse and threatens to kill some of the spontaneity that can make polls fun...

Plus, at the risk of being egregiously presumptuous, my impression is that with polls like the disco poll or the Stax poll or the Motown poll, the pollmasters were people who had been toying with the idea for a poll but had been daunted by the task, whether because of time constraints or because of inexperience + the assumption that running a poll was an impossibly huge undertaking

this sentence was supposed to continue on to say:

and that the sign up sheet format helped them to take the plunge by allowing them to just put one's name down to commit to doing it in a year or two's time.

(that is probably kind of presumptuous of me though, apologies)

I'm not that fussed about the albums poll - there's plenty of room for the occasional broad poll to run alongside artist polls imo, and at least the 'of all time' parameter makes sense. I might even vote in it.

But to have it just land, like you're not even aware of what's going on in this thread, seems really weird. In fact, do you even participate in other people's polls, or just your own? In which case, maybe not promote them like they're the only show in town?

I know you were joking about fake ballots n stuff but it wasn't helpful considering previous nastiness we have got in voting forms. It doesn't take much encouragement for some.

i think you're being a bit precious there dude. i don't think joking about being a dick has any influence on whether somebody feels like being a dick.

it also occurred to me in a way that the poll format here is a little self-defeating? why not start a thread where people laud 10 or 12 of their personal favourite albums, if this is about introducing others to new stuff? that way you mightn't have the overwhelmingly long listing process wherein nobody's really gonna be able to process all that stuff for months. just thinking out loud.

so has the Classic Rock Canon poll started?

no

LET THERE BE ROCK

may launch the noms thread on monday, if life and deadlines don't get in the way.

it also occurred to me in a way that the poll format here is a little self-defeating? why not start a thread where people laud 10 or 12 of their personal favourite albums

People hate list threads way more than polls. At least big polls bring (mostly) all the community together. Just look at the amount of people who nominated/still are. Who have never taken part in any of my polls before and many whom have probably not taken part in this thread either.

And IF all time poll is forced to get in the 3 year queue does that mean the half decade poll has to as well? No one has answered that yet.

nobody's "forcing" anybody to do anything, man. the community is establishing the etiquette for this stuff and you can follow it or not, as long as you understand that when you don't, people have opinions.

half decade poll would probably just come at the end of the half-decade just like year-end polls get done at the end of the year, usually the 'timely' stuff like that (or RIP polls for artists who just passed away) takes precedent.

so basically an all-time poll doesn't fit into this thread either then.

voting opens the day after Judgement Day

of course we'll already have God's top 100 by then

lol

Is he bigger than the Beatles though? His son wasn't apparently.

*Beatles disqualified for being bigger than my son

Icon that doesn't display on my cheap phone, I gotta say, I'd be more sympathetic to your poll position (ha) if it weren't for the tone you've struck on this thread, and moreso in the other thread, which can very easily be read as ''gosh, sorry all you lovely people who want to do this poll, but a bunch of meanies and don't want you to have that fun, so I'll be the bigger person and take my toys and go home so that the death panel can decide all our fates. Happy Nominating!'' It reads as this mutant form of passive aggression where somehow the community at large becomes responsible for your choice to not engage with the queue process.

Bringing in end-of-decade/EOY posts is a red herring - those kinds of things have always had precedence in the queue because they only make sense at certain times. It's not remotely clear why ''an all-time poll doesn't fit into this thread'' unless you believe the end of time (EOT) is nigh and that this is therefore the only appropriate time for this poll.

I put Classic Rock in the queue maybe two years ago, I think, and passed it on to some dude a year and a half ago when I started back to school. You could have put ''all albums'' in back then and we wouldn't be having any discussion at all, but what I get from you is the sense that the queue doesn't apply to you and that the polls it organizes don't interest you. If that's the case, just say that and spare us the disingenuous ''poor little ol' me'' posts.

The funny thing is that the queue system has actually given us more and better polls! As noted upthread, people are inspired to sign up partly by the cushion that it's a ways away - and are motivated to stick with the idea in a way that they might not have been before the system. It unquestionably has downsides, for example I think it puts on pressure to have a pretty fast rollout of results, which I think is tough both on poll-runners and readers. But it's so much better than a free for all. If you don't agree, please stake out an alternative.

and look at the tone in the reply when I did ask for something to be put in the queue..

lists w/ explanations &c. infinitely preferable to polls

obviously there's room for both & its good to hear from ppl who feel happier voting in polls & get a senae of the lay of ilxland, but the all-time poll is so byzantine it feels like an absurdist critique of ilx poll culture

yep

"so byzantine" is a fair criticism. but just from scanning the spreadsheet of nominations, i've already preliminarily explored, and added to my itunes "wish list," half-a-dozen albums. that type of discovery is all i'm hoping for through this exercise.

LJ's idea of a v restricted ballot appealed to me tho. Wld enjoy seeing ilxors making a case for ten favs or something in any format

A shame he would need to wait 3 years then

Anyway Im bored of arguing about this so no more on this from me. Polls already off anyway. Classic rock poll is starting soon so invest your energies in that instead of arguing over rules and other shit.

someone w/ coding skills cld create a permanent, fluid ilx top 100/500/1k albums which users cld submit/edit ballots towards to give you an ever-changing manifestation of ilx's collective tastes, tho it wld lack the declarative finality of a roll-out & wld be trickier to feel proprietorial about

this is a good idea ^^^^^^^^^, with something to allow those who've already voted to swap albums in-and-out, but not cast multiple votes.

Yeah that actually feels like an interesting idea

ILX's very own RYM account.

there's this magazine called sight & sound, right, and every 10 years they do a list of the best films OF ALL TIME, it's silly and useful and interesting and pointless and whatever, but they manage to do it despite such an exercise being impossibly "byzantine". Although I'm sure every time it almost gets derailed by some critics going "but we're already doing a feature on the top 10 italian horror movies this year wtf".

Anyway I don't see why this couldn't be something like that, it would be crazy and fun and I'd enjoy reading lists of people's favourite records ever and why they love them. I wouldn't be devastated if it didn't happen, but I hope it does and it does seem like a different kind of thing to the narrower-focus polls. That is my important opinion.