NBA, finalist or winner, is the only medal on a cover I trust.
― i have the new brutal HOOS if you want it (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 13 February 2014 09:21 (ten years ago) link
Surprised to hear the Pulitzer love. I've found their fiction winners to generally be pretty bad, but they are fairly reliable for Non-Fiction.
― justfanoe (Greg Fanoe), Thursday, 13 February 2014 11:36 (ten years ago) link
My favorite novel of the last 10 years was a Man Booker winner: The Line of Beauty.
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn)
That is a good book. There've been a number of other good Booker winners too. But more than any other prize it seems to award the middlebrow and unambitious.
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Thursday, 13 February 2014 12:56 (ten years ago) link
― i have the new brutal HOOS if you want it (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, February 13, 2014 9:21 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― usic and luriqs by Stephen Sonnedheim (wins), Thursday, 13 February 2014 13:12 (ten years ago) link
Also I was beaten to the gass punch for once
― usic and luriqs by Stephen Sonnedheim (wins), Thursday, 13 February 2014 13:14 (ten years ago) link
The Booker winners might be the worst, idk, but I'm pretty sure I've found more enjoyable books by looking at their nominees/finalists than any of the others.
― festival culture (Jordan), Thursday, 13 February 2014 14:37 (ten years ago) link
Translations of prose fiction will get the substance (plot, characters, setting) right, and usually pick up a fair amount of a writer's style, but literature at a high level suffers when the finer nuances of prose style are lost, and I guarantee you that the majority of translations will lose some of that nuance. This becomes apparent if you read three different translations of almost any classic novel. At the end of the exercise you know you've read three versions of the same story, but not the same story three times.
this is a different thread, but I could not disagree with your more except insofar as you're not getting "the same thing." with a good translation, you're getting something just as good; there isn't any such thing as a single translation, since translation is its own art, so you can get several competing translations that are just as good. but the idea of the original having some mystic intangible quality that can't be expressed through translation is a silly one imo.
― joe perry has been dead for years (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 13 February 2014 14:45 (ten years ago) link
Every author's prose has its own style and rhythm, undoubtedly the translation is not exactly the same as the original because languages, cultures, etc. are different. But that doesn't mean that they cannot be just as good as the original.
Translated poetry is a different thing. That's always a bit touch and go, especially if the author uses a lot of wordplay or rhyming. And there are several foreign language poets who have won the Nobel.
― justfanoe (Greg Fanoe), Thursday, 13 February 2014 15:51 (ten years ago) link
Some great Booker winners: Schindler's Ark, The Remains of the Day, The Ghost Road, Last Orders, Disgrace, The Line of Beauty, The Gathering, Wolf Hall, Bring Up the Bodies. Shortlists are often strong too. Very few really dud years.
― What is wrong with songs? Absolutely nothing. Songs are great. (DL), Thursday, 13 February 2014 16:51 (ten years ago) link
hugo is only as valuable as it is because so much sf is trash
― flopson, Thursday, 13 February 2014 17:35 (ten years ago) link
unlike "literary fiction"
― i want to say one word to you, just one word:buzzfeed (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 13 February 2014 17:38 (ten years ago) link
i might vote newbery. nothing but the truth ruled so hard. altho i guess that just got an "honor".
― i want to say one word to you, just one word:buzzfeed (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 13 February 2014 17:39 (ten years ago) link
think gravity's rainbow specifically being denied the pulitzer says more about it than it winning the national book award
balls otm
― i want to say one word to you, just one word:buzzfeed (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 13 February 2014 17:40 (ten years ago) link
Yeah that's one of my favourite facts
― Punch Drake, Love (wins), Thursday, 13 February 2014 17:56 (ten years ago) link
hugo is only as valuable as it is because so much sf is trash― flopson, Thursday, February 13, 2014 12:35 PM (27 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalinkunlike "literary fiction"― i want to say one word to you, just one word:buzzfeed (difficult listening hour), Thursday, February 13, 2014 12:38 PM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― flopson, Thursday, February 13, 2014 12:35 PM (27 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― i want to say one word to you, just one word:buzzfeed (difficult listening hour), Thursday, February 13, 2014 12:38 PM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
http://www.sfsignal.com/mt-static/images/Theodore_Sturgeon.gifhi dere
― The Crescent City of Kador (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 13 February 2014 18:04 (ten years ago) link
Yeah, every time someone asks me why my dream-job is to study Gravity's Rainbow full time, I will tell that story about the Pullitzer, and people understand.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 13 February 2014 18:31 (ten years ago) link
I'm reading it for the first time atm, it's exactly what I wanted it to be :-)
― Punch Drake, Love (wins), Thursday, 13 February 2014 18:45 (ten years ago) link
Oh that should prob have been one of these for Louis :D
― i want to say one word to you, just one word:buzzfeed (difficult listening hour), Thursday, February 13, 2014 12:38 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
there's a lot more sf out there than literary fiction though
― flopson, Thursday, 13 February 2014 19:44 (ten years ago) link
guys let's not have that tired old argument here. I recommend you look for an m. john harrison blog post called "on both yr houses."
― The Crescent City of Kador (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 13 February 2014 19:56 (ten years ago) link
I get the sense that the Hugo, Nebula, and Edgars are respected by fans of the genre but I don't know enough about them to comment one way or the other.
― justfanoe (Greg Fanoe), Thursday, 13 February 2014 19:57 (ten years ago) link
there are plenty of awful nobel winners. hugo is the only one that has influenced any reading decision i've made as an adult but that's largely cuz i'm no sf buff
yeah, this. hugo has been a good guide to worthwhile SF for me.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 13 February 2014 20:01 (ten years ago) link
a bit hard to fairly judge these as an adult but all the caldecott winners i've read have been good:
http://www.ala.org/alsc/awardsgrants/bookmedia/caldecottmedal/caldecottwinners/caldecottmedal
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 13 February 2014 20:03 (ten years ago) link
Would like to take this opportunity to recommend the Edgar-winning The Confession by Domenic Stansberry.
― The Crescent City of Kador (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 13 February 2014 20:03 (ten years ago) link
James: just skimmed that blogpost, it seemed to namedrop a lot of british people & i'm not sure what the relevance is. i was saying that hugo is the only one i have ever used as an indicator of quality at a second hand bookshop, because there is a lot of sf and a lot of it is trashy/tossed off. literary fiction i p much only check out based on recommendations/reviews
― flopson, Thursday, 13 February 2014 20:06 (ten years ago) link
Relevance is, at this point sf and literary fiction are both genres so that, in line with Sturgeon's law, a lot of stuff is going to be bad in both of them. Finding out what the good stuff is in each and agreeing with other people about it is another matter.
― The Crescent City of Kador (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 13 February 2014 20:11 (ten years ago) link
All true, but with literary fiction it's easier for me to find reliable reviews, descriptions, recommendations, etc. that I trust so I don't need to resort to lists. For sci-fi I just don't have the same resources.
― justfanoe (Greg Fanoe), Thursday, 13 February 2014 20:17 (ten years ago) link
Really? I find too many people like kind of run-of-the-mill stuff that's got the "literary" imprimatur and I have been burned and bored one too many times. Back to original question, I guess the Nobel in literature is kind of notorious for having a bad batting average with respect to posterity. With some of the other awards, I wouldn't read something or not read something just because it won, but I might go over the list to see whether something caught my attention for some other reason, or to be reminded of old favorites that perhaps need to be revisited. Speaking of which, here is article about National Book Award upset in 1962: http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/books/2012/11/_1962_national_book_awards_scandal_the_story_behind_the_moviegoer.html
― The Crescent City of Kador (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 13 February 2014 20:21 (ten years ago) link
i remember that article. it's really kind of mindblowing how many great books were up for the award in '62.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 13 February 2014 20:25 (ten years ago) link
The penultimate paragraph of that article is perfectly apropos for this thread
So if what happened in 1962 reminds us of the worst of what a literary fete can entail—infighting, a cliquish grievance made into national news—we should remember it also demonstrates the best. What are prizes for, in the end? Sure, the culture machine needs them, publicity departments and the gaggle of blogs, but does literature? The glitzy rah-rah of the awards dinner, the indignation suffered on the losers’ behalf: None of it factors into the progression of tradition. What the Booker, Pulitzer, and National Book Awards pretend to accomplish—identifying which works of poetry and prose are superior—takes generations to work out, and we can all name authors, the Julia Peterkins and Conrad Richters, who are known today only for being forgotten, who claimed one medal or many in their lifetime but whose work no longer resonates. Rescuing an overlooked but deserving title—that’s the most these awards can do, and Percy, though he had gotten a late start, would never have to worry about securing a publisher or a readership again.
― The Crescent City of Kador (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 13 February 2014 20:28 (ten years ago) link
Is The Moviegoer regarded now as being bad? or significantly worse than Catch-22? I haven't read either. Surely, the Moviegoer has more kudos than The Edge of Sadness by Edwin O'Connor which won the pullitzer the same year?
of those mentioned in the article Revolutionary Road is the one which has gained critical ground and readers (even before the film) and i loathed that book. I like Salinger's Zooey a whole lot though.
― i lost my shoes on acid (jed_), Thursday, 13 February 2014 20:47 (ten years ago) link
I didn't warm to The Moviegoer but that's a taste thing. It's clearly an impressive, original piece of work that's still in print and appears on lists of the best American novels and it's no embarrassment as a winner.
― What is wrong with songs? Absolutely nothing. Songs are great. (DL), Thursday, 13 February 2014 20:49 (ten years ago) link
No, the poit about The Moviegoer is that it is the exception, the book that won the award that not only deserved it but kind of needed to win, maybe over other deserving candidates, in order for it and the author to get a readership, sort of an optimal outcome.
― The Crescent City of Kador (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 13 February 2014 20:53 (ten years ago) link
Sure, I was just answering jed's question. It needed it more then Heller or Salinger for sure. Not sure what Revolutionary Road was selling.
― What is wrong with songs? Absolutely nothing. Songs are great. (DL), Thursday, 13 February 2014 20:55 (ten years ago) link
Sure, I was responding to his post as well, not yours. Usually I put "xpost" but this one time I decided to leave it off because somebody once gave me grief for overdoing that. I guess I will go back to my old ways.
― The Crescent City of Kador (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 13 February 2014 21:00 (ten years ago) link
Ha ha. Sorry.
― What is wrong with songs? Absolutely nothing. Songs are great. (DL), Thursday, 13 February 2014 21:02 (ten years ago) link
For what it's worth, I think the Nobel's bad batting average is overstated. And most of the criticisms are like "look at all these old winners I've never heard of" instead of "look at all these old winners I read and thought were bad". I've often found when I've gone back and explored the obscure winners, their books have been good (e.g. Fall of the King By Johannes Jensen, Aniara by Harry Martinson, Giosue Carducci's poetry)
― justfanoe (Greg Fanoe), Thursday, 13 February 2014 22:00 (ten years ago) link
I like the moviegoer although its not my favourite Percy
― Punch Drake, Love (wins), Thursday, 13 February 2014 22:55 (ten years ago) link
Really? I would assume then that it was The Last Gentleman, or maybe the linguistics book Signposts ? Signposts in a Strange Land? but this being the board it is, maybe it is one of the others.
― The Crescent City of Kador (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 13 February 2014 23:01 (ten years ago) link
Probably the Nobel, but only for the last few decades.
― ornamental cabbage (James Morrison), Friday, 14 February 2014 02:33 (ten years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.
― System, Friday, 21 February 2014 00:01 (ten years ago) link
DOWN WITH THIS SORT OF THING
― xyzzzz__, Friday, 21 February 2014 00:28 (ten years ago) link
CAREFUL NOW
― i lost my shoes on acid (jed_), Friday, 21 February 2014 01:00 (ten years ago) link
Are y'all really gonna put fucking Neil Gaiman over Faulkner, Beckett and Morrison?
― glover, Friday, 21 February 2014 21:12 (ten years ago) link
The future is uncertain
― In Walked Sho-Bud (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 21 February 2014 21:22 (ten years ago) link
that's not really the point, though.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 21 February 2014 21:38 (ten years ago) link
Damn I didn't know that American Gods won the Hugo and Nebula. Well that certainly gives me the final push to not vote for them.
― justfanoe (Greg Fanoe), Friday, 21 February 2014 22:06 (ten years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.
― System, Saturday, 22 February 2014 00:01 (ten years ago) link
Poor nebula
― ruth rendell writing as (askance johnson), Saturday, 22 February 2014 00:18 (ten years ago) link
sf wuz robbed. again
― In Walked Sho-Bud (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 22 February 2014 01:38 (ten years ago) link
http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18dxero3iaewdjpg/original.jpg
― In Walked Sho-Bud (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 22 February 2014 01:53 (ten years ago) link
shameful
― glover, Saturday, 22 February 2014 02:06 (ten years ago) link
coteries writers of minimum distinction
― In Walked Sho-Bud (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 22 February 2014 03:18 (ten years ago) link
s
― In Walked Sho-Bud (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 22 February 2014 03:19 (ten years ago) link
I need to read The Moviegoer again, I didn't get anything out of it years ago but so many people I trust proclaim its wonders.
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Saturday, 22 February 2014 04:26 (ten years ago) link
Misread that as "Procrustean wonders."
― In Walked Sho-Bud (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 22 February 2014 04:36 (ten years ago) link
I guess I kind of get the Hugo vote but I'm shocked to see Pulitzer beat out NBA!
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Sunday, 23 February 2014 15:43 (ten years ago) link
Yeah, that's just wrong. Gravity's Rainbow. End of discussion.
― Frederik B, Sunday, 23 February 2014 16:08 (ten years ago) link
Glad I voted for NBA
― In Walked Sho-Bud (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 23 February 2014 18:31 (ten years ago) link
Pulitzer getting so high seems to make no sense, as looking over the past 20 or so years of winners the only relevant ones I see are Gilead and The Road (far from the best McCarthy anyways). But, the list of winners is actually really solid through the late 80's.
― justfanoe (Greg Fanoe), Sunday, 23 February 2014 19:43 (ten years ago) link
Lol difficult listening hour. I read Nothing But the Truth when I was in eighth grade, and it has continued to influence how I encounter the media even now. It should be required reading for all middle schoolers imo.
Otherwise hoos/wins otm. Voted NBA.
― Drugs A. Money, Sunday, 23 February 2014 20:17 (ten years ago) link