RFI: UK Immigration Policy

Neither, as such. I work for a big education company that provides a lot of products and services to students, HE institutions, etc.

Mark Harper, the immigration minister responsible for the Go Home racist vans, has resigned after being found to have employed an undocumented cleaner.

Haha! That's priceless.

I'd be interested in that thread, ShariVari! I am an academic in les É tats-Unis but I am heading back to Olde Gaule later this year for another extended stint over there. there's a lot of consolidation of French universities going on right now, and the one at which I'll be ensconced is one of the newest, and largest, of the new fusions.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jun/24/english-language-tests-cheating-results-invalid-overseas-students

3 universities and 57 FE colleges have had their overseas student licences suspended. In theory up to 50,000 people could be deported if still in the UK, though that's unlikely.

Christ. Had heard rumours today and were wondering which Unis they'd turn out to be...

May be more to come...

Immigration minister James Brokenshire

omg

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jul/18/border-police-arrest-cleaner-mark-harper-immigration-isabella-acevedo

Two days after Harper got a new government post.

The lack of compassion shown by border police is pretty disgusting. So is the reappointment of Harper, really.

http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2014/12/02/without-due-process-how-britain-deported-50-000-students

I know that people who had taken TOEIC to support a visa application were given an opportunity to take an alternative test if their application was still being processed.

If the article is correct, it looks like they've identified entire cohorts of test takers as fraudulent and are using that identification to automatically invalidate any visas that were granted prior to the scandal breaking, though. How watertight that identification is, i don't know though. The structure of the cheating would have made it impossible for anyone in the room to have been unaware / complicit in most cases but i'd assume that proving it on a case by case basis for 29k-50k people would be tricky.

*unaware / not complicit*

How watertight that identification is, i don't know though.

Not at all, there won't even be any grounds for suspicion in most cases - this is just a bullshit pretext to game the figures, because who gives a fuck about immigrants getting deported lol

It's relatively easy to identify testing centres that were providing fraudulent exams and also possible to identify who took tests at those centres and when. The way most of the the cheating was organised would have meant that anyone who wasn't paying the premium for a guaranteed pass wouldn't have been allowed in the room. On the balance of probabilities, the bulk of the people they've identified are likely to have cheated but that's a fair way from proving it beyond a reasonable doubt.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/foreign-students-could-be-sent-home-before-applying-for-work-visas-to-cut-immigration-9938145.html

Looks like nuisance value rather than anything else - foreign graduates would have to go abroad to submit applications for UK work visas rather than being able to do it while in the UK. I think many have to do so already though. The interesting bit is buried:

Mrs May is also pressing for the power to be able to penalise colleges and universities that would have low success rates in ensuring the departure of foreign graduates and to deprive them of their right to sponsor overseas students, the source added.

So not only would universities be responsible for monitoring the whereabouts of their students while they are studying, they would be responsible for ensuring that they left the country after they graduated.

There's more coming before the election. Expect the sector to be up in arms.

Sigh

Remarkable stroke of luck that the Saville report and the name of the British ISIS dude were both released on the same morning as the immigration statistics.

And the government's response is to...further restrict the rules around student visas.

I was a bit "eh was Seville an immigrant" for a sec there tbh

(xp) ... and blame the EU (though the biggest increase in immigration was in non-EU nationals) and the Lib Dems (get used to this line, you'll be hearing it a lot).

Was it luck?

re becoming a UK citizen:

One referee should be a person of any nationality who has professional standing, eg minister of religion, civil servant, or a member of a professional body e.g. accountant or solicitor (who is not representing you with this application).

WTF is this bullshit. What if you don't personally know any so-called "professional" people?

Thought this was going to be a bump about Nigel Farage wanting to do away with anti-discrimination laws...

my dentist counter-signed my passport application.

here's a list of suggestions:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/british-citizenship/british-passport-application-who-can-countersign-t53718.html

what about this section:

they have known the applicant personally for more than 3 years; • they are willing to give full details of their knowledge of the applicant;

seems like a dentist might have issues with this.

I would guess that virtually everyone will know at least one of a doctor, teacher, dentist or pharmacist on a purely professional basis but that's very different from knowing them personally for more than three years, if only because GPs and teachers move around so much.

(And I'm guessing this is written for people who have been legally resident in the country for a while, I may be wrong)

Well exactly. Even if you've been in the country for 11 years that doesn't mean you're friends with doctors and dentists! Is this just another way of keeping out working class people or something?

public librarians are happy to sign these kind of things, by and large

public librarians are happy to lie on official forms that they have known someone personally for 3 years? Fair enough, but you'd think the £5000 fine would put them off.

This isn't for a passport application btw, it is for a citizenship application, hence being on the UK immigration thread.

ah sorry, advice rescinded then

the dentist was really my only hope - i was registered at a doctor's surgery but would see a different doctor every time i went. whereas i had seen the same dentist at least once every 6 months for 8 years so...

the 'personally' thing depends on what you mean by 'personally'. i was a person to him, not just a name, not an unknown person asking for his signature. he had my address on file, i'd paid bills... and i'm sure he'd've refused if he didn't feel he could vouch for me.

yah can see how this would be tough. Last time I had to re-apply for my airport airside pass I thought I'd never get it because they needed a friend who wasn't a relative to assert that you were of good character and that they had known you for over 2 years. I don't have any actual friends so got a co-worker (who I never see socially) to vouch for me. They were a bit iffy about accepting this tbh. If I had to produce a professional that I'd known for 3 years I would have zero chance, as I don't know or have contact with any.

Also idly wondering what percentage of non-EU immigrants would know a religious leader well. Disproportionate to the rest of the country I'd imagine?

The irony is we're only doing this so we can get out of this shithole country, but not have a load of hassle if we decide we want to move back at some point.

the 'personally' thing depends on what you mean by 'personally'. i was a person to him, not just a name, not an unknown person asking for his signature. he had my address on file, i'd paid bills... and i'm sure he'd've refused if he didn't feel he could vouch for me.

― koogs, Thursday, March 12, 2015 2:03 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is what I meant by my librarian suggestion- if you've been a member of a public library for a number of years then that is probably good enough for most purposes, though citizenship applications might be tougher/more rigorous. In any case a librarian in a public library would be likely to help you find out exactly what the criterion implies. Or maybe go to the CAB.

Poo, you should have webmail.

Cheers Aldo, I replied on FB

Just wanted to mention how much I enjoyed receiving an email from "the bowels are not what they seem" to my Colonel Poo email account.

You need to do this to buy premiums bonds as well see days, it's a massive pain in the neck.

At least an American won't have to do a language test on top of everything else.

Do you really? I was about to buy some premium bonds, luckily my friends are middler-classier than me.

I had to provide a certified copy of my passport (signed by a community member of good standing) as proof of ID and a bank statement as proof of address but i might just have been unlucky. Idk if they select a certain proportion to scrutinise or if they do it to everyone.

I bought some for my godson as a christening present a few years back and the only thing that annoyed me was that I had to get my mum to do it as being grandparent is acceptable to buy a present on behalf of a child and being an aunt isn't.

I was lucky with the 'professional people' thing because at the time I applied I had been working at the same small company for a few years and could get the CEO/director to vouch for me. But I imagine a lot of people struggle with it, as if anyone needs more crap to worry about on top of the money they have to conjure for the whole process. The paperwork etc from my arrival in the UK to my full citizenship cost over 3000 pounds, which is just an insane amount of money, even if it is spread over a few years.

http://i.imgur.com/EYu5Tzo.png

Worth remembering that he was "convicted" without having been arrested, put on trial or given any kind of formal sentence.

he should come to the uk and perform a crime (the more spurious the better) here, so he has to stay for longer to be put on trial, lol

Landlords could face up to five years in jail for letting properties to undocumented migrants - or failing to check whether the people they let to have the legal right to remain in the country.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/aug/03/illegal-immigrants-face-eviction-without-court-order-under-plans-to-discourage-migrants

The degree to which the government has farmed enforcement out to non-professionals is often underestimated. Landlords must act as immigration officials or face jail, universities have to or face financial ruin, lorry drivers are automatically responsible for anyone caught in their vehicles, etc. Trucking companies have been fined nearly £7m this year, iirc, for failing to secure their lorries against stowaways.

This might be the most incoherent policy yet:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33750709

Labour and the Conservatives both pledged that anyone in a public-facing role in the state sector must have an appropriate level of English and could lose their jobs if they failed to meet that benchmark but i think this is the first time the actual benchmark has been identified. They have chose proficiency in English equivalent to "GCSE grace C". This is odd for a number of reasons.

There are lots of different ways to measure English proficiency for speakers of other languages and GCSEs aren't really one of them. They are designed with native speakers in mind and might reflect core competencies but don't assess them in a formal way. They are not ESOL tests. The guide used for visas in the UK and by every other ministry i can think of across Europe (Polish Civil Service, Greek Civil Service, Italian Ministry of Education, etc) is the Common European Framework of Reference.

I'll skip the technical details but the upshot is that to work in any customer-facing role, you'd need a level of English broadly comparable to the requirements for Highly Skilled migrant visas and most MBA courses and higher than the entry point for almost every undergraduate degree in the country. Given that 39% of British people fail to get a C grade in GCSE English, i'm not sure what is expected.

The most absurd element of all is that the initial documents seem to suggest it will be up to managers to determine how to check the English levels of their staff.

that's before you take into account that in a couple of years GCSE grading is going to change to an "interesting" new 9-1 scheme

http://www.aqa.org.uk/supporting-education/policy/gcse-and-a-level-changes/structure-of-new-gcses/explaining-new-gcse-grades-transcript

i'm not even gonna get into the serious issues with English and Maths teaching at post-16 because professional discretion but let's just say in brief there are nowhere near enough teachers to meet demand from the government for continuing study for pupils who haven't achieved GCSE passes at school

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-cameron-says-migrant-families-could-be-broken-up-and-mothers-deported-if-they-fail-new-english-a6818631.html

The government has just announced some kind of fund targeted at helping Muslim women learn English on nat sec grounds, which would not have been necessary has they not bulldozed the existing funds for migrants looking to improve their language skills. Presumably if you are not a Muslim woman, you are still out of luck.

As ever, there's no detail on the level of English required, or the process. To get a spouse visa / further leave to remain, you already need to be able to pass an English test at the A1 level, the reference to toughening up the system and to demonstrating your level of English is "improving" suggests it'll be another test at a higher level.

The plans to deport anyone not earning £35,000 after five years continue to roll on:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-urged-to-rethink-new-35000-earnings-threshold-for-non-eu-migrants-as-teachers-face-a6814841.html

was on radio4 this morning. interviewer pointed out that it was same government (albeit in coalition) that removed the funding in the first place.

Great, thanks. Feel more at ease we're looking in the right place now.

Good luck.

UK asylum refusal decision: 'Your strong attachment to your Islamic faith is inconsistent with your claim to use lesbian dating sites ...'

https://twitter.com/Paul_Dillane/status/763326753595133954

The treatment of LGBT asylum applicants is one of the great, under-reported scandals.

awful