Mia Farrow's son -- Ronan Seamus Farrow -- really creeps me out!

if Dylan Farrow doesn't want that to be the conversation, you wouldn't know it from the first and last sentences of her letter.

Claiming that because she framed her letter that way means she literally wants you to pick a favorite movie is o_O

Woody Allen/Catholic Church - give 'em a break, they've brought so much good into the world
football coach - fuck you burn in hell Joe Pa

We need a control subject of a baseball coach/player accused to baseline Morbs responses.

C'mon this is crazy.

if Dylan Farrow doesn't want that to be the conversation, you wouldn't know it from the first and last sentences of her letter.

Claiming that because she framed her letter that way means she literally wants you to pick a favorite movie is o_O

― Orson Wellies (in orbit), Sunday, February 2, 2014 12:53 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wait that's what you think i was saying? oookay

i'm really glad her letter is out there, but think it's pretty fuckin gross that the New York Times is wildly profiting off of this.

^ "journalist"

^ "balls"

dude as someone who works/(ed?) in magazine publishing you should know better than most that the NYT is unlikely to be profiting wildly off anything

Jordan its unusual compared to other celebrity/high profile cases. The only other case of a big celeb being accused of molesting his own child that I can think if is John Phillips, and that didnt come to light til after he was dead, so it wasnt a case of the victim trying to destroy the accused's career (which seems to be the goal of Farrow's letter).

a shame they have to profit with things like covering this, war crimes in syria, etc and can't focus on doing something positive for the world like hey man remember the 90s listicles

But this is a real experience that adults can have.

Sure but "all else being equal, this is a thing that can happen to some people" doesn't apply because all else IS NOT EQUAL. It can't be said enough that to take some stance of "neutrality" or "objectivity" is functionally siding against the victim.

Sorry, typing on phone so pasting and responding sloppily.

i'm really glad her letter is out there, but think it's pretty fuckin gross that the New York Times is wildly profiting off of this.

― Whiney G. Weingarten, Sunday, February 2, 2014 12:57 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark

lol

balls, the appropriate response to that post was just a link to this http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/the-secret-life-of-transgender-rocker-tom-gabel-20120531

it has been kinda shocking and horrifying to see here and elsewhere (ie facebook) ppl actually doing the 'why didn't she come forward earlier', ignoring that she did and then proceeding to demonstrate w/ the rest of their tortured arguments exactly why a rape or abuse victim might be hesitant to come forward. and by 'ppl' i mean 'men'. genuinely depressing to see that really the culture just hasn't advanced at all on this front, despite concerted efforts even (eg why snuffie on sesame street isn't a secret friend of big bird's anymore, etc). part of me wonders if this hasn't even been counterproductive in the short term, if it's just a demonstration again to anyone thinking of coming forward that whatever the possibility of some form of justice occurring is it is almost definitely outweighed by the likelihood that significant and powerful portions of the world will seek to attack, smear, and destroy you.

j0rdan, that's a reported story, not an open letter with a seven-sentence warm-up explaining why it exists that would have gotten the exact same attention if it was posted on a personal Tumblr.

dude

you really wanna make the issue here that dylan farrow should have started a tumblr

the idea that any web site "wildly profits" off of any single story is nonsense

not to mention... irrelevant

And before someone twists my words, I must reiterate that I'm obviously SUPER glad it's out there and psyched it's getting this much attention

unless you think the news shouldnt cover... bad things?!

you really wanna make the issue here that dylan farrow should have started a tumblr

― socki (s1ocki), Sunday, February 2, 2014 1:17 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Kristof could have posted it on his Tumblr instead of bringing it to his editors as a "get"

Then Tumblr would have profited off of it then. She should have just set up a press conference in the middle of Times Square.

this conversation is really stupid

yeah

apology accepted

sorry for the detour yall

Sure but "all else being equal, this is a thing that can happen to some people" doesn't apply because all else IS NOT EQUAL. It can't be said enough that to take some stance of "neutrality" or "objectivity" is functionally siding against the victim.

My point about Annie Hall does not depend on "all else being equal". I'll acknowledge that this might not be the best time to discuss it, though.

"generating traffic" is the new "wildly profiting"

btw milo z, I'm all for defrocking and shooting pedophile priests into space. but keep on hating.

all the 'well mia is just as or more guilty than woody' stuff is bizarre here also, the 'we can't trust the motivations of a woman who adopts children and actually gets angry when she finds out her common law husband is having an affair w/ their daughter via amateur porn' stuff but we can trust the motivations of a man who grooms a child to be his lover and agreed to see a therapist over an 'incident' involving his then 7 yr old daughter (mia says it involved molestation, woody denied it but didn't clarify what the 'incident' was then)(i mean there's tons of totally normal reasons a man might need to agree to seek therapy over an incident involving him and his 7 yr old daughter)(maybe she pronounced vincent van gogh 'like an arab'). i can agree that mia's decisions might be poor or i would've done it differently (and i can pretend w/ certainty that i would've) but the major choices she made here - 1) making woody agree to seek therapy instead of immediately calling the cops 2) not allowing the da to bring charges cuz she wanted to protect her child 3) permitting a clip to be shown and then regretting it - seem to fall more in the 'humans are fallible' category than 'humans are monsters'.

woody denied it but didn't clarify what the 'incident' was then

He told 60 Minutes there was no incident, but then you knew that from the Fandor link i posted, Sherlock.

a man who grooms a child to be his lover

what did this grooming consist of? was it like Gigi?

some of Mia's other decisions also covered in the '92 CBS interview, unless WA fabricated the valentine with the needles and kitchen knife stuck into the family photo.

o right he just agreed 'yeah i guess my relationship w/ my 7 yr old daughter does warrant therapy. it's totally healthy though, no reason to be concerned.'

ran across this quote last night, from 2011 - and aside from the "be careful what you wish for" ironic quality, it's startling how glib and reductive he is about what happened. admittedly it was in response to an awful question, but you'd never guess the guy was talking about a situation that led to him having no access to his children after being accused of having molested one.

http://ca.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idCATRE75L1OV20110622?pageNumber=3&virtualBrandChannel=0

Q. Still, critics like this film. Do you think America is ready to forgive you for your past scandals?

A: "What was the scandal? I fell in love with this girl, married her. We have been married for almost 15 years now.

"There was no scandal, but people refer to it all the time as a scandal and I kind of like that in way because when I go I would like to say I had one real juicy scandal in my life."

Obv the entire corpus will need to be reevaluated

― Mordy , Sunday, February 2, 2014 10:33 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm i think

the profound selfishness of the woody character that runs through all his movies has to seem just a little bit less funny, now, right? how can you not know what you now know

like i said before, manhattan already creeped me out, and now...

very few of the protagonists from Annie Hall on seemed meant to be wholly, or even mostly, admirable

These accusations have been out for twenty years, no reason for anyone to work themselves into a panic over reassessing his oeuvre. And that'd be a silly concern even if the claims were new.

but let's talk about Ronan, and how cannily he's promoting his MSNBC show.

Like if anything take it as an excuse to NOT spend time thinking about his movies

the character(s) meant to be funny. i'm not really gonna be laughing for a while.

i don't see why we shouldn't be talking about his work, it's the only way i know the man. the only reason we know as much as we do is because he and the mother involved were both public figures and artists.

working out your exact calculus of how sure you are of the horror of what he did vs how deeply you are still moved by what he made is basically pointless, sure. even tho i suppose that's what i'm doing.

but let's talk about Ronan, and how cannily he's promoting his MSNBC show.

― images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Sunday, February 2, 2014 1:11 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ok, how cannily is ronan promoting his msnbc show? really seems like a key thing to be thinking about.

ive been following this closely enough and i had no idea he even had an msnbc show, but please go ahead and find some novel ways to cast blame on the accusers here

i'm saying no matter what the truth is, the tweeting/jokes thing on his part is not in the best of taste, nor a display of compassion toward his sister.

You really weren't saying that. At all. You may have been thinking it, but that statement bears literally no relation to what you said.

oh NOW your moral judgment kicks in

Binge reading feminist legal scholar Aya Gruber at the moment because of this. There are many more positions than two here, and I am not gonna argue the point with you all, but would suggest some of you read her as well.

Bottom line is that the anti-rape culture position of "believe the victim first and more" isn't solely a position of righteousness if you are willing to think about lynchings in the American South within living memory, and it isn't the only alternative to shaming and calling the accuser a liar and believing wholeheartedly in the innocence of the accused.