Mia Farrow's son -- Ronan Seamus Farrow -- really creeps me out!

i don't think we have any way of really knowing how common false allegations are in this types of situations. however, if someone told me something horrible like this happened to them i would believe them, 100%. it would seem monstrous not to and seriously, what could dylan, mia, or ronan possibly gain by continuing to tell this story decades later? i say this as someone who doesn't just like woody allen's movies but loves many of them.

xp to self

It seems wrong to treat 'assuming this person is a liar', and 'assuming this person is telling the truth', as if these assumptions are equally bad. As an observer, I'll stress again.

I would say that even someone who really hates their father is unlikely to make such an accusation falsely. When you think about it, plenty of people hate their father and haven't spoken to them in years but they haven't made such an allegation, not just because it would be immoral to make that allegation falsely but also because it would be a weird and improbable way to react to the situation. Even if they had very bitter feelings towards their father they would still understand the gravity of such an accusation and I think few people could pluck up the nerve to do that when they know they will be scrutinised by many people. So I believe her.

It seems pretty simple to me - the letter and the '92 investigation don't make me want to throw Allen into jail for the rest of his life, but those combined with the Soon-Yi situation are more than enough to make me never want to patronize anything he's involved with.

There have been monsters who made great art while doing worse things, sure - but I have to draw the line somewhere on what I can stomach supporting in the name of well-made art/greatness (and that line cuts out the Polanskis, Allens, Tysons of the world).

But there's an important question here which is what kind of attitude we should have towards rape or child abuse allegations which we have nothing to do with, when we are just observers.

Seriously? In like at least 3 different ways.

Personally I am happy to jettison Allen's work because I've been doing that anyway. His films can be often be very well crafted and funny but I think there is a certain sort of emotional depth in the really great artists that he doesn't quite have for me. I have sometimes enjoyed art by very fucked up people - I must admit that I think some of Polanski's films are truly remarkable. The thing with Allen though is that my knowledge of him as a person kind of confirms what I had felt about certain aspects of his work anyway - his negative portrayals of women, for example.

in orbit, go on?

that doesn't seem like something that desperately needs unpacking, cardamon; you are just saying Hm But Truly Who Are We To Disapprove Of Murder?, it's like one of those heroic Jesus interventions amid a stoning only it's "really can child abuse ever really be ~known~?" how is a lack of actual omnipresent witness status an impediment to policy against abuse?

definitely the most important thing in a case like this is for us to immediately figure out whether we can still feel ok liking woody allen's movies

Obviously allen is a shitty person. Has no bearing on his work afaic.

― How dare you tarnish the reputation of Turturro's yodel (Shakey Mo Collier), Saturday, February 1, 2014 7:33 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

*rocks back and forth, hands over ears*

His shittiness obv has bearing on his work. It's impossible (ime) to read Alice w/out wondering about Lewis Carroll personal life. Similarly here where ppl have pointed out itt some of the films already explicitly make such connections (Manhattan), but I've found myself looking back at Annie Hall in a new light. After all it's hard to go back to seeing his movies as sophisticated, insightful comments on adult male + female relationships after you learn about such dramatic deficiencies in his own ability to conduct age-appropriate relationships (nb maybe it's naive to consider this now instead of earlier but…) - eg Annie Hall where he basically educates + teaches this intellectually immature woman until she's not only his intellectual equal but in fact too grown up for him. Diane Keaton isn't playing a literal child but the resonances can't be ignored. Obv the entire corpus will need to be reevaluated

"we" have no business "figuring out" anything else xxp

http://www.fandor.com/keyframe/daily-who-did-this-to-dylan-farrow

while you watch that '92 60 Mins interview, i'll be lkistening to the James Brown, Woman Beater box.

I still don't understand how a man who married his adopted daughter being a child molester and Mia Farrow somehow brainwashing her child into believing a totally fictional crime happened well into adulthood are being treated as 2 equally likely possibilities

"his adopted daughter"

this thread breaks the record for not knowing what facts are knowable

definitely the most important thing in a case like this is for us to immediately figure out whether we can still feel ok liking woody allen's movies

― socki (s1ocki), Sunday, February 2, 2014 4:26 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Not the most important thing, no. But the reason there is so much discussion of this case in the first place is because he is a famous director whose work has been admired by many people, so whether that can continue after this is of some relevance I think.

q: when will morbs stfu?

this is all just so irrespective of the farrows' actual request - that our celebration of woody allen is done in a manner that suggests we haven't forgotten dylan's accusation. one doesnt have to weigh the odds of his innocence or guilt to do that, and if one likes to think they separate the art from the artist, they presumably don't care to celebrate woody in the first place.

i guess we should all follow morbs' example and not be so judgmental

Joe Paterno

I'm sure no columnists/bloggers will be tasteless enough to paint the fact of his leaving as the TRAGEDY of this disaster, will they?

― Dr Morbois de Bologne (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, November 8, 2011 12:18 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

would not put anything past the shits who run bigtime athletic programs and their enablers.

― Dr Morbois de Bologne (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, November 9, 2011 9:16 AM (2 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Forfeiting the rest of the season seems the only classy thing to do, which is why I can't envision it.

― Dr Morbois de Bologne (Dr Morbius), Thursday, November 10, 2011 10:14 AM (2 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

from a football standpoint the game knida needs to be played

This is where the world needs to not give a fuck about the "football standpoint."

― Dr Morbois de Bologne (Dr Morbius), Thursday, November 10, 2011 2:47 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

DennisThePerrin#
The Angel of Death wore antiseptic gloves to collect Joe Paterno.

― Dr Morbois de Bologne (Dr Morbius), Sunday, January 22, 2012 1:04 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I like this piece, though it's probably preaching to the everyone-but-Morbs choir: http://thenewinquiry.com/blogs/zunguzungu/woody-allens-good-name/

Annie Hall where he basically educates + teaches this intellectually immature woman until she's not only his intellectual equal but in fact too grown up for him. Diane Keaton isn't playing a literal child but the resonances can't be ignored.

But this is a real experience that adults can have. It's a long way from pedophilia imo. (I'm not commenting on the allegations here but on the 'need to re-evaluate' this film in light of them.)

This is not like the Paterno case. Or the McMartin case. It is pretty unusual.

I have only seen Scoop and Curse of the Jade Scorpion. Which one of these does Annie Hall most resemble?

definitely the most important thing in a case like this is for us to immediately figure out whether we can still feel ok liking woody allen's movies

― socki (s1ocki), Sunday, February 2, 2014 11:26 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

if Dylan Farrow doesn't want that to be the conversation, you wouldn't know it from the first and last sentences of her letter.

yeah i am also reluctant to view general complaints about his depiction of women as of a piece with the allegation that he is a monstrous abuser of children. the former discussion is worth having, but i just think it's a different thing. xp

It is pretty unusual.

― How dare you tarnish the reputation of Turturro's yodel (Shakey Mo Collier), Sunday, February 2, 2014 12:38 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark

a man molesting his (adoptive) daughter is not that unusual

if Dylan Farrow doesn't want that to be the conversation, you wouldn't know it from the first and last sentences of her letter.

Claiming that because she framed her letter that way means she literally wants you to pick a favorite movie is o_O

Woody Allen/Catholic Church - give 'em a break, they've brought so much good into the world
football coach - fuck you burn in hell Joe Pa

We need a control subject of a baseball coach/player accused to baseline Morbs responses.

C'mon this is crazy.

if Dylan Farrow doesn't want that to be the conversation, you wouldn't know it from the first and last sentences of her letter.

Claiming that because she framed her letter that way means she literally wants you to pick a favorite movie is o_O

― Orson Wellies (in orbit), Sunday, February 2, 2014 12:53 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wait that's what you think i was saying? oookay

i'm really glad her letter is out there, but think it's pretty fuckin gross that the New York Times is wildly profiting off of this.

^ "journalist"

^ "balls"

dude as someone who works/(ed?) in magazine publishing you should know better than most that the NYT is unlikely to be profiting wildly off anything

Jordan its unusual compared to other celebrity/high profile cases. The only other case of a big celeb being accused of molesting his own child that I can think if is John Phillips, and that didnt come to light til after he was dead, so it wasnt a case of the victim trying to destroy the accused's career (which seems to be the goal of Farrow's letter).

a shame they have to profit with things like covering this, war crimes in syria, etc and can't focus on doing something positive for the world like hey man remember the 90s listicles

But this is a real experience that adults can have.

Sure but "all else being equal, this is a thing that can happen to some people" doesn't apply because all else IS NOT EQUAL. It can't be said enough that to take some stance of "neutrality" or "objectivity" is functionally siding against the victim.

Sorry, typing on phone so pasting and responding sloppily.

i'm really glad her letter is out there, but think it's pretty fuckin gross that the New York Times is wildly profiting off of this.

― Whiney G. Weingarten, Sunday, February 2, 2014 12:57 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark

lol

balls, the appropriate response to that post was just a link to this http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/the-secret-life-of-transgender-rocker-tom-gabel-20120531

it has been kinda shocking and horrifying to see here and elsewhere (ie facebook) ppl actually doing the 'why didn't she come forward earlier', ignoring that she did and then proceeding to demonstrate w/ the rest of their tortured arguments exactly why a rape or abuse victim might be hesitant to come forward. and by 'ppl' i mean 'men'. genuinely depressing to see that really the culture just hasn't advanced at all on this front, despite concerted efforts even (eg why snuffie on sesame street isn't a secret friend of big bird's anymore, etc). part of me wonders if this hasn't even been counterproductive in the short term, if it's just a demonstration again to anyone thinking of coming forward that whatever the possibility of some form of justice occurring is it is almost definitely outweighed by the likelihood that significant and powerful portions of the world will seek to attack, smear, and destroy you.

j0rdan, that's a reported story, not an open letter with a seven-sentence warm-up explaining why it exists that would have gotten the exact same attention if it was posted on a personal Tumblr.

dude

you really wanna make the issue here that dylan farrow should have started a tumblr

the idea that any web site "wildly profits" off of any single story is nonsense

not to mention... irrelevant

And before someone twists my words, I must reiterate that I'm obviously SUPER glad it's out there and psyched it's getting this much attention

unless you think the news shouldnt cover... bad things?!

you really wanna make the issue here that dylan farrow should have started a tumblr

― socki (s1ocki), Sunday, February 2, 2014 1:17 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Kristof could have posted it on his Tumblr instead of bringing it to his editors as a "get"

Then Tumblr would have profited off of it then. She should have just set up a press conference in the middle of Times Square.