RPGs are better in 2D. Discuss!

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Well, also I suggested it would be interesting to have agame without explicit save points... the state of your game is always "saved"

― Jonothong Williamsmang (ex machina), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 01:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah, and what happens if you fuck up and cripple your characters? Or find yourself in a part of the game where you're out of your depth/not properly equipped to survive? Plus it gives you no flexibility to go back and explore alternate paths or parts of the game you missed without having to play the entire thing through from the beginning.

Diablo is kiddy shit. No depth!

My point was not that Diablo is deep, but that you were wrong.

― Laura H. (laurah), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 01:31 (eighteen years ago) link

Also you are an RPG rockist!

― Laura H. (laurah), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 01:48 (eighteen years ago) link

I like games where you can't see the dungeon unless you have torches

― Jonothong Williamsmang (ex machina), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 01:52 (eighteen years ago) link

back to Akalabeth with you, then!

― kingfish superman ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 06:57 (eighteen years ago) link

Thanks to the PSP downgrader I was up really late last night playing Dragon Warrior/Quest 1 (which is hardcore with the torches) (and the every-three-second random encounter with fucking slimes). It really was Final Fantasy 3/6 and 7 that fucked up RPGs, wasn't it? Emo cutscene animu.

3D RPGs worth playing that I can't believe I forgot before: CLOUDS OF XEEN and DARKSIDE OF XEEN.

― adam (adam), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 10:38 (eighteen years ago) link

I want a psp for emulation but i don't know if it will outweigh my want of a DS for DSness.

― jeffrey (johnson), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 13:43 (eighteen years ago) link

I think JWillems needs to sit down and crank away at a FIRE EMBLEM for a couple hours or maybe days and then come back with his report on how "constant save" and "death matters" affects game enjoyment.

I thought those ideas sounded cool too until I actually had to deal with them, then I realized they're the anti-fun.

― TOMBOT, Wednesday, 5 October 2005 14:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Honestly, I like insane dungeon crawls more than all this fucking handholding otaku bs.

― Jonothong Williamsmang (ex machina), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 14:12 (eighteen years ago) link

Anyway FMV cutscenes kind of kill any game that uses them, not just RPGs.

Seriously Jon steal a copy of Fire Emblem for the GBA. It's awesome, it's exciting, it's great, then you get fucked and have to start all over from the beginning.

― TOMBOT, Wednesday, 5 October 2005 14:16 (eighteen years ago) link

RPGs for consoles/handhelds should NOT be like coin-op shmups

― TOMBOT, Wednesday, 5 October 2005 14:17 (eighteen years ago) link

I just think there needs to be balance!

― Jonothong Williamsmang (ex machina), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 14:32 (eighteen years ago) link

Fire Emblem is fucking annoying. Dungeon crawls and the ability to screw around and do whatever one wants is a whole lot more fun than super linear epic stories about big eyes and swords and omg Aeris DIES etc.

Is there much love for Arena/Daggerfall/Morrowind here? I like the sandbox mixed with level progression and increases in abilities/power to destroy the shit out of whole towns.

― adam (adam), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 15:10 (eighteen years ago) link

Is there much love for Arena/Daggerfall/Morrowind here?

RPGs in 3D are great, too!

― kingfish superman ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 15:49 (eighteen years ago) link

Laura made the argument (in person) to me that all the secrets in the FF series are what gives it playability and depth. NO.

This is non-integrated tripe for 14 year old boys who love HOW AWESOME shit is. Think about it. Most of the secrets are simply HUGE SPELLS and HUGE WEAPONS.

― Jonothong Williamsmang (ex machina), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 16:15 (eighteen years ago) link

http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000497061899/

they're remaking all the 2D Final Fantasies into 3D for the DS.

― kingfish superman ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 16:20 (eighteen years ago) link

Laura made the argument (in person) to me that all the secrets in the FF series are what gives it playability and depth. NO.

You enjoy taking secondary points that I make and turning them into my entire argument. I think that secrets, multiple paths, etc. give depth and replayability to games, as opposed moving on one linear path from event to event. I enjoy the extra challenge they provide, particularly in games that I love and want to extend as long as possible.

Things are are way more important to me than : game design, storytelling, character development, battle systems, ETC ETC ETC.

― Laura H. (laurah), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 16:33 (eighteen years ago) link

linear vs. non-linear isn't the point. Listen, we are talking about games where you hit buttons to get numbers to increase over long, long periods of time. They're all fucking linear. And the HUGE SPELLS and HUGE WEAPONS are an endpoint of the line put there for addicts to get a little more replay value out of their game after they beat Shaitankopf.

Fire Emblem, FFT, FFTA and even Chrono Trigger, Terranigma, Secret of Mana, etc. would have gotten dropped like they were hot by me if I hadn't had some interest in fighting my way to the next plot point through the storyline. Non-linear dungeon crawls = no sense of purpose or discovery = I'm going to go play outside.

― TOMBOT, Wednesday, 5 October 2005 16:40 (eighteen years ago) link

Most of the secrets are simply HUGE SPELLS and HUGE WEAPONS.

In my opinion, the best secrets are the ones that unlock extra parts of the story and character histories, actually. But the kind of secrets you're talking about are still classic. I, for one, enjoy the challenge of hunting down obscure enemies and killing them for awesome weapons. CONDEMN ME IF YOU MUST.

― Laura H. (laurah), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 16:42 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm going to take away the power adapters for all the video game systems and make you play nethack.

― Jonothong Williamsmang (ex machina), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 16:46 (eighteen years ago) link

The thing that pisses me off more than ANYTHING about typical squaresoft fare (not Enix so much!) is that you almost ALWAYS have several points in the game where you have to walk in circles getting in ultra-repetitive fights (dungeon crawl! non-linear!) to rustle up higher stats and pay for better gear because some miniboss fight down the hall or across the river is completely unwinnable without numbers significantly higher than the numbers you had against the LAST miniboss. I WOULD RATHER BE IN A PROJECT MEETING. OH MY FUCKING GOD.

― TOMBOT, Wednesday, 5 October 2005 16:47 (eighteen years ago) link

And don't get me wrong, I loved FF3 and FF7 wasn't even that horrible, but to speak of character development with these games is insane.

Also, that spell in FF7 that takes 3 minutes and shows half the solar system = DUD

― Jonothong Williamsmang (ex machina), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 16:47 (eighteen years ago) link

Tom, and most of the combat in square games is awful. Like there's really no challenge to 99% of the battles.

― Jonothong Williamsmang (ex machina), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 16:48 (eighteen years ago) link

That is why Kingdom of Loathing is better than any Square RPG for PS1/2.

― Jonothong Williamsmang (ex machina), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 16:49 (eighteen years ago) link

how is secret of evermore, while you're all here?

― cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 16:49 (eighteen years ago) link

Got caught up with We Heart Katamari, and haven't gotten to it! Soon.

And don't get me wrong, I loved FF3 and FF7 wasn't even that horrible, but to speak of character development with these games is insane.

You told me you thought FF3 was "OK" and nothing more, when I was raving about it. And did you really care so little about the characters that you weren't affected by Kefka killing General Leo?

― Laura H. (laurah), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 17:19 (eighteen years ago) link

"Characters"

― Jonothong Williamsmang (ex machina), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 17:43 (eighteen years ago) link

I think what she's saying is that you can quit trying not to be gay now Mr. Willems

― TOMBOT, Wednesday, 5 October 2005 17:53 (eighteen years ago) link

Guess who was REALLY EXCITED to see a bit torrent copy of the crappy final fantasy CGI movie?

― Jonothong Williamsmang (ex machina), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 18:04 (eighteen years ago) link

Adolf Hitler!

― TOMBOT, Wednesday, 5 October 2005 18:15 (eighteen years ago) link

geli traudl!

― cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 18:21 (eighteen years ago) link

Robert Byrd?
Trent Lott?

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 18:41 (eighteen years ago) link

Aunt Jemima!

― TOMBOT, Wednesday, 5 October 2005 18:42 (eighteen years ago) link

Momus drinking a Moolatte

― Jonothong Williamsmang (ex machina), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 19:01 (eighteen years ago) link

Beverly D'Angelo!

― melton mowbray (adr), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 19:09 (eighteen years ago) link

The founder of Kill Whitey?

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 19:18 (eighteen years ago) link

I am just heading further into irredeemable asshole territory but I would totally play an Ultima clone that lets you be Stokely Carmichael with a giant katana

― TOMBOT, Wednesday, 5 October 2005 19:36 (eighteen years ago) link

OMG

― The Ghost of You Are Fucking Brilliant (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 19:38 (eighteen years ago) link

http://www.marxists.org/history/usa/workers/black-panthers/pics/carmichael.jpg http://www.knifesite.com/fullsize/UC1258.jpg

― The Ghost of Two Great Tastes... (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 19:39 (eighteen years ago) link

don't forget
http://www.artofeurope.com/scott/b-runner.jpg

― TOMBOT, Wednesday, 5 October 2005 19:50 (eighteen years ago) link

Guess who was REALLY EXCITED to see a bit torrent copy of the crappy final fantasy CGI movie?

You can antagonize me when I get home, you know. I live 8 feet away from you.

And yes, I am excited about Advent Children.

― Laura H. (laurah), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 19:54 (eighteen years ago) link

that reminds me. i wonder how long before anime shows stop excising all the yaoi stuff that will be broadcast in america

― kingfish superman ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 20:03 (eighteen years ago) link

How long before adult swim appropriates yaoi ironically?

― Jonothong Williamsmang (ex machina), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 20:04 (eighteen years ago) link

is this rori

― Bob Loblaw (Adrian Langston), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 20:11 (eighteen years ago) link

How long before adult swim appropriates yaoi ironically?

name a show where that'd work. Aqua Teen? Home Movies?

― kingfish superman ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 20:14 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't think anything on Adult Swim is good or funny.

― Jonothong Williamsmang (ex machina), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 20:15 (eighteen years ago) link

Aqua Teen yaoi????????

Excuse me, I think my eyes need to commit hari kari.

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 20:23 (eighteen years ago) link

Debuting this fall on Adult Swim!

― The Ghost of Images Off Is Your Friend Here (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 20:32 (eighteen years ago) link

secret of evermore is a straight classic cozen.

― rio natsume, Wednesday, 5 October 2005 20:32 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't think anything on Adult Swim is good or funny.

well, not anyMORE. Home Movies was great, but that's not running anymore...

― kingfish superman ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 5 October 2005 20:44 (eighteen years ago) link

Skipping 82 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

WHOAAAAA!!!!!!

― JW (ex machina), Thursday, 18 May 2006 17:51 (eighteen years ago) link

What era of Star Trek?

― Laurah (laurah), Saturday, 20 May 2006 12:22 (seventeen years ago) link

i saw the panzer game!! it looked pretty good... although i only saw screenshots and they didn't look in-game.

fire emblem for gc is kind of a weird proposition for me, for some reason these games work much better in my head as portable things.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Saturday, 20 May 2006 15:16 (seventeen years ago) link

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