Gay Marriage to Alfred: Your Thoughts

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unfortuneately, "civil union" is also stigmatized as "a way for queers to approximate marriage".. So a new term is needed.

dave225 (Dave225), Thursday, 4 November 2004 16:29 (9 years ago) Permalink

Chantel, I don't think you will find anyone supporting the death penalt in muslim nations here. And probably not the death penalty anywhere.

However, I won't allow the Bible to be misinterpreted, twisted and wielded to hateful ends. The arguments will have to come both in the religious world and the secular, because like it or not we live in a christian civilisation.

But Jonathan, why can't a christian gay souple get married in a church which recognises their partnership?

Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 4 November 2004 16:30 (9 years ago) Permalink

As I said, are we just declaring open season on Christianity right now or are we going to start criticising the instant death penalty handed out within Muslim countries for homosexuality? WELL?

This kind of argument really pisses me off. YES THERE ARE THINGS WRONG IN MUSLIM COUNTRIES AS WELL, I know. But rather than talking about something I know nothing about and have no contact with, I would rather talk about something I know about, think is wrong and have a chance of changing.

Steve.n. (sjkirk), Thursday, 4 November 2004 16:30 (9 years ago) Permalink

FWIW, while I should be supportive of it, I think a large amount of the gravity in people standing up for it has made the issue seem like one for the left fringe when it should be a centrist civil rights issue - and thus people get scared of it. And as such, maybe jumping up and down in a country where most people don't want it hinders the cause.

edward o (edwardo), Thursday, 4 November 2004 16:31 (9 years ago) Permalink

But rather than talking about something I know nothing about and have no contact with, I would rather talk about something I know about, think is wrong and have a chance of changing.

i'd rather not be KILLED

Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Thursday, 4 November 2004 16:31 (9 years ago) Permalink

Chantel, um, we're discussing gay marriage and, by extension, Christianity. Do by all means start a thread on why you hate Islam if you're so keen.

Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 4 November 2004 16:31 (9 years ago) Permalink

The only logical way to deal with is to get rid of the legal institution of marriage, but there is no way anyone is going to get away with that. Just imagine the hysterical family values hoo-hah that would result.

RickyT (RickyT), Thursday, 4 November 2004 16:32 (9 years ago) Permalink

one legitimate reason that people worry about a civil union between two people is because it would inevitably lead to demands for a civil union between more than two people. Which, of course, is totally rational.

The government has absolutely no compelling interest to regulate civil matters between consenting adults (other than in areas of fraud, etc.)

don weiner, Thursday, 4 November 2004 16:32 (9 years ago) Permalink

This kind of argument really pisses me off. YES THERE ARE THINGS WRONG IN MUSLIM COUNTRIES AS WELL, I know. But rather than talking about something I know nothing about and have no contact with, I would rather talk about something I know about, think is wrong and have a chance of changing.

Okay, am I the only one who sees a deep irony here? The vast majority of the posters on this thread have been British!

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 4 November 2004 16:32 (9 years ago) Permalink

I apologize in advance for the US-centric viewpoint but our election was just yesterday and I presume was the shitstorm that spurred the topic.

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 4 November 2004 16:34 (9 years ago) Permalink

(I was hoping noone would notice Dan)

But still, you are the spawn of our nation (i.e. you speak English).

Steve.n. (sjkirk), Thursday, 4 November 2004 16:34 (9 years ago) Permalink

(Also we have the same debate going on in the UK)

Steve.n. (sjkirk), Thursday, 4 November 2004 16:34 (9 years ago) Permalink

Hey, we have gay marriage/civil union stuff brewing here as well! And with an established state religion, there are real actual constitutional problems involved. Though I do take your point.

RickyT (RickyT), Thursday, 4 November 2004 16:35 (9 years ago) Permalink

We don't have gay marriage yet either, Dan. (x-posts)

Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 4 November 2004 16:35 (9 years ago) Permalink

Dan Perry - Spawn of England!

adam... (nordicskilla), Thursday, 4 November 2004 16:35 (9 years ago) Permalink

Her Majesty is proud.

Steve.n. (sjkirk), Thursday, 4 November 2004 16:36 (9 years ago) Permalink

Woah, does this mean I can be President AND King???

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 4 November 2004 16:37 (9 years ago) Permalink

Kneel before his er hrm ah er munificence.

Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 4 November 2004 16:38 (9 years ago) Permalink

Well, not King exactly, but you could get married to William and be the nu-duke of Edinburgh.

RickyT (RickyT), Thursday, 4 November 2004 16:39 (9 years ago) Permalink

Anyway, the liberal arguments will win - which is partly why the right are so afraid. We have been moving more and more towards egalitarian societies, ans they know they will lose. Add to that that I have never heard a proper argument against gay marriage and I am certain the egalitarians will win.

Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 4 November 2004 16:40 (9 years ago) Permalink

This should never be an issue. Let whomever wants to marry, marry. If they're crazy enough to want to do it, who am I to stand in their way? Hell, I'll even be flowergirl.

luna (luna.c), Thursday, 4 November 2004 16:40 (9 years ago) Permalink

more like teh nude duke of edinburgh

Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Thursday, 4 November 2004 16:41 (9 years ago) Permalink

'08 is going to be a banner fucking year for me.

It is probably best that I have four years to acclimate myself to the political realm before I turn 35 as right now I want to state all of my issues as satirical initiatives; my current solution to the gay marriage issue would be to pen a bill that banned divorce and heterosexual civil unions.

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 4 November 2004 16:43 (9 years ago) Permalink

As i thought. Trendy and acceptable to attack Christians. Unnacceptable to attack other religions which are actually tolerant and fluffy.

Ridiculous.

Chantel, Thursday, 4 November 2004 16:47 (9 years ago) Permalink

"But Jonathan, why can't a christian gay couple get married in a church which recognises their partnership? "

I have no problem with that. But you can't legislate to force a church to do that. On the other hand, it's the law's business to protect the rights of individuals. Therefore we should separate out what churches do from what the law does, and call the two things by different names.

Jonathan Z. (Joanthan Z.), Thursday, 4 November 2004 16:48 (9 years ago) Permalink

Chantel, Hooked On Phonics might work for you.

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 4 November 2004 16:48 (9 years ago) Permalink

tolerant and fluffy?

Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Thursday, 4 November 2004 16:48 (9 years ago) Permalink

The Passion of the Snuggle Bear.

luna (luna.c), Thursday, 4 November 2004 16:49 (9 years ago) Permalink

The day that the US and Britain become Islamic societies is the day that your objection to this thread makes sense, Chantel, just to spell it out for you.

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 4 November 2004 16:50 (9 years ago) Permalink

BBritain is a Christian country? When did this become official? As in the WHOLE of Britain? All of it Christian too?

Chantel, Thursday, 4 November 2004 16:52 (9 years ago) Permalink

You are a gigantic moron.

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 4 November 2004 16:54 (9 years ago) Permalink

I'm not the moron saying the UK is a Christian country.

Chantel, Thursday, 4 November 2004 16:58 (9 years ago) Permalink

Basic logic would tell you that saying Britain is not an Islamic society does not imply that Britain is a Christian society.

You don't know this because you are a moron.

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 4 November 2004 16:58 (9 years ago) Permalink

attacking fluffy things is definitely unacceptable!!!! leave the furry bunnies alone!

ken c (ken c), Thursday, 4 November 2004 17:01 (9 years ago) Permalink

Uh huh, and so why does my point fail to register with you you brainless tosspot? Why the open attack on only one religion? Have you got an answer or not? Are you just going to sit there and dodge my question like the smug little prick you are?

Chantel, Thursday, 4 November 2004 17:02 (9 years ago) Permalink

The UK is a Christian country! We have a state religion! The Church of England - the Queen is it's head!

X-posts I don't want to force churches to hold gay services - none the less many would and want to, and saying that what happens in a Church is between a man and a woman and what happens outside is a civil union doesn;t help gay Christians.

Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 4 November 2004 17:02 (9 years ago) Permalink

I do not know enough about Islam the religion to comment on how it deals with homosexuality.

I do know enough about the way that homosexuals are treated in Islamic societies to know that what happens to gays in Islamic societies is wrong.

You are still a gigantic, oxygen-stealing idiot.

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 4 November 2004 17:04 (9 years ago) Permalink

Haha, Calum must REAAAAALLY be lonely in Essex today. Not even his blow-up doll girlfriend can give him love.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 4 November 2004 17:04 (9 years ago) Permalink

Let's not play the Calum game, okay? If this is him and he wants to run a whole bunch of personalities, fine. I don't care.

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 4 November 2004 17:06 (9 years ago) Permalink

i don't it's true that he moved to Essex fwiw

Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Thursday, 4 November 2004 17:06 (9 years ago) Permalink

(think)

Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Thursday, 4 November 2004 17:06 (9 years ago) Permalink

the homosexual is the new jew. discuss.

Emilymv (Emilymv), Thursday, 4 November 2004 17:08 (9 years ago) Permalink

I have never heard a proper argument against gay marriage and I am certain the egalitarians will win.

Overcoming emotionalism and irrational fear with argument is admittedly classic, but it's not an automatic win.

Aimless (Aimless), Thursday, 4 November 2004 17:08 (9 years ago) Permalink

Church of England. That's it then. UK is a Christian country. There's not other part of the UK.

chantel, Thursday, 4 November 2004 17:18 (9 years ago) Permalink

are you a moron saying the UK is a Christian country now?

Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Thursday, 4 November 2004 17:19 (9 years ago) Permalink

I think it's a veiled version of his usual scotland =/= england schtick, stevem.

Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 4 November 2004 17:20 (9 years ago) Permalink

the new testament section(the only section with jesus christ in it)
of the bible never mentions jesus christ's sexuality. never once.
he spends time mainly with eleven other men, his friend simon peter is repeatedly referred to in the gospels as 'the one jesus loved' despite him loving everybody anyway, and there are two seperate scenes that i can think of (there might be more) across the four gospels of jesus kissing a man. there is no scene of jesus kissing a woman.

these are the facts.

in case anyone's thinking that i may not know what i'm talking about, i went to 2 roman catholic schools for a combination of 13 years, i was an altar boy from the age of 9 until i was 16, and i read from the bible on the altar until i was 20.

can those in the 'anti' camp please stop quoting 'the bible' in relation to this subject, because it doesn't sound like you've actually read it, and it isn't doing you any favours.

cheers.

piscesboy, Thursday, 4 November 2004 17:45 (9 years ago) Permalink

I'm Scottish, Chantel - I'm well aware there are other parts to the UK. Nevertheless, the Queen is Queen of Scotland too. She is also head of the Church of England.

Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 4 November 2004 17:53 (9 years ago) Permalink

Okay Chantel, we are all scared of those weird terrorist Muslims and afraid they will send Cat Stevens out to get us. Happy now?

Steve.n. (sjkirk), Thursday, 4 November 2004 17:57 (9 years ago) Permalink

The word "marriage" is charged with religious meaning, which is why I think it'd be best to jettison it from a legal opint of view and just talk about civil unions. This is what they've essentially done in France, where gay couples (or straight couples or brothers and sisters or whatever) can sign a PACS (pacte civile de solidarité) which affords most of the rights of marriage.

There's no real reason why the french *have* to give it a different name, though, other than to pander to homophobia. After all, in France, religious marriages are not considered legally valid, and haven't been since the 19th century. So why - considering that all couples who want a religious wedding in France aren't legally married unless they have a civil wedding as well - is there a need to differ between a marriage and a civil pact?

caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 4 November 2004 20:50 (9 years ago) Permalink

Also, no stay in the Fourth Circuit; it's up to SCOTUS to put one in or not pending appeal.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/federal-judges-refuse-to-stay-decision-striking-va-same-sex-marriage-ban/2014/08/13/a695193a-2303-11e4-8593-da634b334390_story.html?hpid=z4

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 13 August 2014 19:19 (1 week ago) Permalink

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 13 August 2014 19:24 (1 week ago) Permalink

This fall on ABC.

You are exactly why people root for the apes (Eric H.), Wednesday, 13 August 2014 20:22 (1 week ago) Permalink


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