And "false accusation" child molestation stories, aside from the occasional weird "repressed memory"/hypnotherapy hoaxes, idk, you just don't hear about them very often.
true. but again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-care_sex-abuse_hysteria
"Inconsistencies" wouldn't really be, well, inconsistent with a young child's experience of molestation, you know?
of course. i guess the question is how certain each of us wants to be to convince ourselves that something happened vs. "i just don't know." i'm in the latter camp.
FWIW i like some of allen's movies, dislike others, have no very strong attachment to him and his films either way.
― ★feminist parties i have attended (amateurist), Monday, 13 January 2014 17:51 (ten years ago) link
to be clear, my 2nd paragraph of last post isn't aimed at you, sd, so much as the general sentiment expressed elsewhere in thread.
― da croupier, Monday, 13 January 2014 17:52 (ten years ago) link
whole lot more cultural capital invested in one of the great filmmakers than in one of the great r&b singers
That...may depend on who you ask?
― Orson Wellies (in orbit), Monday, 13 January 2014 17:53 (ten years ago) link
some dude you said you're not outraged by what he got away with, which is why i just wanted to clarify that you knew what he likely got away with. and when you went on about appreciating his art sans moral clause, i was curious if you actually knew the tone of the golden globes' celebration of his life and work.
yeah i watched the Globes, it was pretty awkward. but i was saying i don't have any problem with other people drawing a line in the sand and saying Woody crossed it for them and they'll dance on his grave and protest every award he gets -- just let anyone who thinks that should let me determine whether that's now where i draw my line.
― some dude, Monday, 13 January 2014 17:54 (ten years ago) link
just LIKE anyone who thinks etc.
― some dude, Monday, 13 January 2014 17:55 (ten years ago) link
so I didn't know that was the premise, but EW
you are misreading the post btw that is not what Manhattan is about. that is something that someone (not a major character) says at a party during the film, while comically failing to defend himself from accusations of misogyny.
― Ayn Rand Akbar (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 13 January 2014 17:56 (ten years ago) link
i mean tbf i was making the pretty pointless argument that it's pointless to argue about this and nobody should be trying to convince anyone else to be on their side, so i can't blame you for assuming i wrote a paragraph that long to stake out an actual position. xp
― some dude, Monday, 13 January 2014 17:57 (ten years ago) link
the Girl Scouts theme thing is pretty clueless, i would agree.
allen apparently wasnt self-conscious at all about putting this fantasy onscreen
no idea how much of the Hemingway character is fantasy, but he'd dated a teen actress named, uh, Stacey a few years earlier.
in which a male party dude says
Played by Michael O'Donoghue, fairly well known at the time for his self-written sicko bits on SNL. He's clearly a parodic figure.
I'm sorry if I used the wrong term Hurting, but I'm not a lawyer -- but I am a misogynist, racist, and pedophile, so close enough.
― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 January 2014 17:57 (ten years ago) link
no one said you were a pedophile
― you are kind, I am (waterface), Monday, 13 January 2014 17:58 (ten years ago) link
i'm just saying that we don't and can't live in a world where any sort of testimony is prima facie evidence of a crime. i'm not saying that's what's going on here, cos i have no idea what's going on here. but we also live in a world where shit like this happens: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-care_sex-abuse_hysteria
― ★feminist parties i have attended (amateurist), Monday, January 13, 2014 12:48 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
the differences between these situations are informative, satanic sex abuse scandals are m/l the epitome of wrongheaded stranger danger fears about childhood abuse, which stands in willful denial that abusers are usually family members or other trusted people who have close seeming good relationships with the children, abusers arent scary monsters theyre usually people who identify with and are very good at connecting with children, they practice psychological manipulation and seduction not torture
― lag∞n, Monday, 13 January 2014 17:59 (ten years ago) link
i was saying i don't have any problem with other people drawing a line in the sand and saying Woody crossed it for them and they'll dance on his grave and protest every award he gets -- just let anyone who thinks that should let me determine whether that's now where i draw my line.
traditionally that's where i stood on these things, but the whole r kelly thing made me realize how easy it is for people who like the work of a repugnant person to go from "yeah he's awful, but i still like this song" to "PRESIDENT KEELLLLLLS!!!!" as they're desensitized to what the person is accused of doing. By saying "i just assume people are awful, doesn't keep me from liking their work," one's actually taking on the responsibility to talk about these people like they're awful. So personally I'm glad for reminders, esp when awful people are being serenaded on tv.
― da croupier, Monday, 13 January 2014 18:00 (ten years ago) link
i guess i'm playing devil's advocate here a bit. i admit i read that vanity fair article and was sickened by some of what was recounted. and it is hard for me to imagine why this little girl would have come forward and made these accusations to anyone if something awful hadn't happened. but around that event is such a thicket of issues that i guess I decided to "officially" not have an opinion, even if my reflex reaction to allen is now mostly one of disgust.
― ★feminist parties i have attended (amateurist), Monday, 13 January 2014 18:02 (ten years ago) link
also lagoon that's a good point.
― ★feminist parties i have attended (amateurist), Monday, 13 January 2014 18:03 (ten years ago) link
we've come a long way from thread title
or maybe not
yeah...when there's some public miscarriage of justice and someone who very likely did something terrible walks free, there's this sense, whether real or imagined, that the court of public opinion now matters, and we're all now jurors. so, it matters more if you want Woody Allen or George Zimmerman thrown in prison now that he wasn't, at least theoretically. it's difficult to quantify.
― some dude, Monday, 13 January 2014 18:05 (ten years ago) link
it still blows my mind that there is someone who is either Woody Allen's son or Frank Sinatra's son and nobody seems totally sure. that's fucking crazy.
lol yeah
― lag∞n, Monday, 13 January 2014 18:06 (ten years ago) link
"Hi, I'm Arnold Nixon...or Presley. one of those."
― some dude, Monday, 13 January 2014 18:06 (ten years ago) link
liv tyler thought warren zevon was her dad until she was like 12
― lag∞n, Monday, 13 January 2014 18:07 (ten years ago) link
nah todd rundgren
― da croupier, Monday, 13 January 2014 18:08 (ten years ago) link
oh right
― lag∞n, Monday, 13 January 2014 18:08 (ten years ago) link
it does creep me out that mia and ronan seem to use that ambiguity to further tease/get back at allen.
"yeah, well while i was married to you i was fucking frank sinatra. your son isn't even your son!"
but again, not my family.
― ★feminist parties i have attended (amateurist), Monday, 13 January 2014 18:08 (ten years ago) link
i knew zevon didnt seem quite there
― lag∞n, Monday, January 13, 2014 12:07 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
todd rundgren's son thought warren zevon was his dad, liv tyler thought todd rundgren was his dad, and steven tyler stared into the eyes of a cow and saw god
― ★feminist parties i have attended (amateurist), Monday, 13 January 2014 18:10 (ten years ago) link
HER dad
nothing about Farrow also being less then a great person would detract from the story -- in fact the women who marry child molesters are often not such great people
― signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Monday, 13 January 2014 18:10 (ten years ago) link
Luke Skywalker thought a young Jedi named Darth Vader betrayed and murdered his fathe!
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 January 2014 18:10 (ten years ago) link
― signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Monday, January 13, 2014 12:10 PM (4 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i don't think anyone implied that ronan and mia's tweets (or generally odd behavior) had any bearing on whatever happened or didn't happen years ago.
― ★feminist parties i have attended (amateurist), Monday, 13 January 2014 18:12 (ten years ago) link
i didn't know any of this tyler/zevon/rundgren stuff. it's turning me into william f. buckley.
― goole, Monday, 13 January 2014 18:13 (ten years ago) link
hadn't heard the zevon/rundgren bit, but yeah bebe buell's daughter could be forgiven for not being sure what rock royalty line she was in
― da croupier, Monday, 13 January 2014 18:14 (ten years ago) link
i made up the zevon/rundgren bit. it's amusing to think of this sort of rock-star-rid roundelay where rundgren raises tyler's kid, zevon raises rundgren's kid, phil lynott raises zevon's kid, etc.
― ★feminist parties i have attended (amateurist), Monday, 13 January 2014 18:15 (ten years ago) link
hey don't leave out Elvis Costello from that equation
xp
― Ayn Rand Akbar (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 13 January 2014 18:16 (ten years ago) link
rock-star-Kid
― ★feminist parties i have attended (amateurist), Monday, 13 January 2014 18:16 (ten years ago) link
ew having sex with Elvis Costello
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 January 2014 18:16 (ten years ago) link
oh lol whoops
it doesn't help that i don't really like 70s rock that much
― goole, Monday, 13 January 2014 18:17 (ten years ago) link
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, January 13, 2014 12:16 PM (11 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i bet he's real clever in bed
― ★feminist parties i have attended (amateurist), Monday, 13 January 2014 18:18 (ten years ago) link
his aim is true
― Mordy , Monday, 13 January 2014 18:20 (ten years ago) link
punch the cock
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 January 2014 18:22 (ten years ago) link
Don't put on Ray Charles for your sex music.
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Monday, 13 January 2014 18:25 (ten years ago) link
I assume ppl who are reading the 2013 vanity fair article are also reading the older vanity fair article from the early 90s, if not pls do so
In 2004, Orth wrote an article about Jackson serving alcohol to a 13 year old Japanese boy named Richard Matsuura in 1998 based on the stories of Myung Ho Lee, Jackson's former business advisor. NBC News' Mike Taibbi contacted Matsuura who said the story was completely false. Vanity Fair has since deleted all references to Matsuura from their website despite Orth's initial refusal to retract the story.
― sleepingsignal, Monday, 13 January 2014 18:26 (ten years ago) link
that's some weaksauce doubtcasting if you look at it in context of her whole journalistic career
― signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Monday, 13 January 2014 18:35 (ten years ago) link
someone lied to her ergo everyone lied to her case closed
― lag∞n, Monday, 13 January 2014 18:49 (ten years ago) link
i guess i'm playing devil's advocate here a bit. i admit i read that vanity fair article and was sickened by some of what was recounted. and it is hard for me to imagine why this little girl would have come forward and made these accusations to anyone if something awful hadn't happened.
the fact that she's still haunted by it as an adult pretty much puts the lid on any idea that this was about 'mia wanting to get back at woody' or whatever, imo.
the 1992 VF story (which i don't recommend reading actually if you're having a nice day and don't want it ruined) also casts the soon-yi thing in a much creepier light than it's generally depicted these days.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 13 January 2014 21:46 (ten years ago) link
holy shit @ that 1992 story. like with the r. kelly situation, i didn't have any real awareness of how grotesque his reported behavior actually was.
― reddening, Tuesday, 14 January 2014 00:14 (ten years ago) link
heres the sequel from last year http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2013/11/mia-farrow-frank-sinatra-ronan-farrow
― Hungry4Ass, Tuesday, 14 January 2014 00:24 (ten years ago) link
link?
― ★feminist parties i have attended (amateurist), Tuesday, 14 January 2014 00:25 (ten years ago) link
xpost
heres the 92 one http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/archive/1992/11/farrow199211
― Hungry4Ass, Tuesday, 14 January 2014 00:28 (ten years ago) link
this vanity fair article is truly horrific
― Mordy , Tuesday, 14 January 2014 00:45 (ten years ago) link
its sure is, allen's hangers-on and his fame surely quashed all these accusations of allen and farrow's daughter, dylan
― everyday sheeple (Michael B), Tuesday, 14 January 2014 01:07 (ten years ago) link