Mia Farrow's son -- Ronan Seamus Farrow -- really creeps me out!

its quite possible woody is a sexul predator saying conveint things

woody allen and future bride:

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/19ccpyky31b20jpg/ku-xlarge.jpg

strangers at a game

"i was just the guy who dated their mom for a decade, brought new kids into the clan, and then took one kid out. I wasn't, like, a dad."

You can't deny his movies have been basically shit ever since he gave into the dark side.

i'm not sure which if any of the above posts and responding to me but i should just say that I have absolutely no idea who to believe in this situation. IIRC the child who was alleged to have been sexually abused by woody said some things to some people and other things to other people, or to the same people the 2nd or 3rd times. children can be tough witnesses--they are very subject to suggestion either way. and they are often severely uncomfortable in the formal setting of a deposition or courtroom, which could also effect testimony either way. reading the vanity fair article i got the distinct sense that woody was, at least, a creep but it was hard to know what else to believe.

sorry if this isn't sufficiently decisive or whatever.

Mia and her brood of ill-named children def creeps me out. Running a pre-adolescent commune on the Upper East Side.

― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, January 13, 2014 11:06 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i would have thought this too but given how none of the her kids seems to be strongly poorly adjusted and all, at least per vanity fair article, are fiercely loyal to her and their adopted siblings even into adulthood, I revised that feeling.

i dunno this seems a case where jumping to conclusions based on things being "weird" is not going to help you, since everyone involved is very unusual.

You can't deny his movies have been basically shit ever since he gave into the dark side.

manhattan?

i admit it's hard for me to imagine living with mia amongst a bunch of young kids and not feeling, if not exactly like "their father," then at least like a "father figure." i mean, what else would you be?

lag∞n,if you are defining "children" as pre-adolescents I don't see it

also, youre a fucking troll

― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Monday, January 13, 2014 12:01 PM (41 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

your behavior itt is seriously unconscionable youre a fucking misogynistic piece of shit fuck off

― lag∞n, Monday, January 13, 2014 12:02 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

btw sry morbs i dont think youre a piece of shit, you are a misogynist tho

all the curious spin-zone qualities of the farrow clan aside, there's enough in woody allen's life, from making jokes about his teenage first wife's rape on, that celebrations of his work should probably not climax with diane keaton singing the Girl Scouts theme.

Yeah it's possible that Farrow pressured Dylan to make up or exaggerate something, sure, she's kind of fucked up and crazy, w/e, who knows. But once someone comes out and makes a weighty allegation like that, it's pretty hard for me to just be like "Eh, it's just unproven allegations, shrug." I mean just the difficulty of coming out with a story like that makes it something I have to take seriously. And btw Soon-Yi and the frequency of uncomfortable old man/young woman relationships in his films, I can't really shake off the feeling that there's a strong chance it's true.

is that what happened on the golden globes? i didn't watch them. if so, yikes.

xpost

there is a strong easily observable pattern here

that looks shockingly like what we know about the patterns of sexual preditors

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNwPY1rJ_bU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mON8atk0_t4

there is a strong easily observable pattern here

― lag∞n, Monday, January 13, 2014 11:16 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this isn't one of those snarky questions, i promise, but can you lay this out--what you think to be the pattern--clearly here?

i think we should separate the films from the personal behavior btw.

dude dated teenagers in the '50s, '70s and '90s

the films are corroborating evidence too, obvs you wouldnt make a case just on that but they def have something to say about how he sees the world

I think in particular it's the fact that the FILMS (not just the Woody Allen characters) are oblivious to the creepyness of the relationships, e.g. Manhattan

Woody's like the Bret Saberhagen of creeping - odd numbered decades, watch out for your young women

when i first saw manhattan (not too long ago) i was amazed at how the relationship his character had w/the 17 yr old was kind of framed as "yeah she's younger than me, nbd, 17 years old w/e." not "surprised" i guess.

Like you watch Manhattan and the film itself tries to portray the Muriel Hemingway relationship as sweet, and of course Muriel Hemingway's character is so mature and in control for her age, don't you see?

I assume ppl who are reading the 2013 vanity fair article are also reading the older vanity fair article from the early 90s, if not pls do so

if the recent revelations about british media personalities from the 60s and 70s are anything to go by the truth of these situations is usually worse than you think, rather than better

but ... his character is pretty clearly aware of the creepyness of the relationship in Manhattan, he refers to their age difference as an issue all the time

their age difference isnt an issue as much as the absolute age of the high school girl hes dating, he treats it like shes 22 or something

I assume ppl who are reading the 2013 vanity fair article are also reading the older vanity fair article from the early 90s, if not pls do so

― yes, i have seen the documentary (Jon Lewis), Monday, January 13, 2014 12:26 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I just googled this, could not make it through more than a couple paragraphs

I've never said WA isn't creepy. That's not illegal.

A shame to see a troll convict a fellow Obama loyalist on hearsay.

Alvy Singer: Lyndon Johnson is a politician, you know the ethics those guys have. It's like a notch underneath child molester.

she should be dating guys with names like Biff and Scooter iirc

xp

A shame to see a troll convict a fellow Obama loyalist on hearsay.

lol you don't know what hearsay means

lol morbs is one of those guys who think people are infringing on his 1st amendment rights when they tell him to stfu

morbs just now

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18mlr43adfwhcjpg/ku-xlarge.jpg

im sorry i dont apply legal standards to my personal opinions like morbs does, then again i have no subpoena powers

that '92 vanity fair story: http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/archive/1992/11/farrow199211

Like you watch Manhattan and the film itself tries to portray the Muriel Hemingway relationship as sweet, and of course Muriel Hemingway's character is so mature and in control for her age, don't you see?

presents her as a fount of wisdom, complete with kicker, as if to say, "Yeah she's 17 but hey nbd she's smart!"

Really gross if your initial reaction when someone claims to have been raped/abused/molested/etc. is skepticism.

with the "little bastard" bit in that '92 vf piece, i wonder how much woody knew about mia and frank "never breaking up"

Really gross if your initial reaction when someone claims to have been raped/abused/molested/etc. is skepticism.

― Murgatroid, Monday, January 13, 2014 12:35 PM (28 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

alfred exactly

i believe that if every time Woody had an inappropriate interaction with a minor, the authorities had been notified and he was testified against, that he'd have gone to jail a long time ago and would not be able to make successful films with famous movie stars today and probably not be getting any lifetime achievement awards. but that didn't happen, and while i'm skeeved out by what he likely got away with, i dunno, it doesn't outrage me that much, to be honest. lots of terrible people will never pay for their worst actions. i don't think appreciating someone's art should have a morals clause, although obviously everyone has a line they draw somewhere. the debates about Woody or R. Kelly or whoever seem to come down to people telling others where they should draw their own lines, and it seems to have as much to do with how they felt about the art to begin with as what their moral compass says.

when i first saw manhattan (not too long ago) i was amazed at how the relationship his character had w/the 17 yr old was kind of framed as "yeah she's younger than me, nbd, 17 years old w/e." not "surprised" i guess.

― christmas candy bar (al leong), Monday, January 13, 2014 12:25 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark

every time i watch Manhattan i get more creeped out by it, the way her character dotes on him and hangs on his every word, all the signifiers of innocence & childhood around her, her sexual voraciousness, its sort of amazing that allen apparently wasnt self-conscious at all about putting this fantasy onscreen

Really gross if your initial reaction when someone claims to have been raped/abused/molested/etc. is skepticism.

― Murgatroid, Monday, January 13, 2014 12:35 PM (28 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah like you dont have to take it as gods truth but just throwing it in the garbage like unsubstantiated bears a striking resemblance to the cultural systems of power that protect abusers everywhere

Tracy: Let's fool around. Let's do it some strange way that you've always wanted to, but nobody would do with you.

very shall we say "interesting"

i don't think appreciating someone's art should have a morals clause, although obviously everyone has a line they draw somewhere. the debates about Woody or R. Kelly or whoever seem to come down to people telling others where they should draw their own lines, and it seems to have as much to do with how they felt about the art to begin with as what their moral compass says.

― some dude, Monday, January 13, 2014 12:38 PM (59 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i basically agree with this tho i think in a lot of cases its not so much a the moral line drawing observed in the blogosphere but a more visceral revulsion toward the person that makes appreciating their art impossible

fwiw i cant think of an artist where i was just like no more but i can totally understand why someone would

some dude, did you read these vf articles or see the golden globes? you can think woody's a terrific director, a veritable role model in his prolific independent work, and still think its gross to have diane keaton express her gratitude for his friendship and support of women on an awards show on a major network through an a capella rendition of a girl scouts song. the problem with the whole "you have to separate the art from the artist" thing is that its only said to defend ignoring ugly shit - no one's telling diane to separate the art from the artist.

every time i watch Manhattan i get more creeped out by it, the way her character dotes on him and hangs on his every word, all the signifiers of innocence & childhood around her, her sexual voraciousness, its sort of amazing that allen apparently wasnt self-conscious at all about putting this fantasy onscreen

― Hungry4Ass,

this is also a movie in which a male party dude says he's going to direct a film from his own script about a guy who screws so great that when he brings a woman to orgasm, she's so fulfilled that she dies, right?

xposts galore

lagoon, remind me of status of those claims (again, I don't mean that as snark, I mean it exactly how it's written). it's been a while since i read the article. my understanding was that the child involved made different statements at different times. and IIRC in that article her statements were all mediated by mia and other of her children. that doesn't make me "skeptical" so much as, "i don't have enough information to have a very stable idea what is going on here." surely testifying about your abuse is an imponderably difficult thing, and the last thing any of us should take lightly. however the rights of the accused, and the fact of false accusations, are also a reality.

separately:

i just feel like the connection between the films and whatever patterns we imagine ourselves seeing in his private life is kind of tenuous and complex.

i mean the relationships in his films are may/december type things and he's hardly the only own to portray them (see also a ton of french auteur cinema, also a ton of melodramas from before the 30s). you could argue that these are sublimated, social-acceptable avatars for his real desires for very young girls but then you'd be entering into a real feedback loop where all the art and the little bits of "reality" we glean from these articles/other coverage just become kind of overdetermined.

I'm kind of at a point where I'm glad I saw certain Woody Allen films and at the same time would be perfectly happy never to watch one again. I can separate his work from his life to an extent, but there's even a certain life approach within the films that I don't really want to inhabit anymore, even aside from the "creepy" stuff. Manhattan is a film I really never want to watch again though.

"false accusations" invoked, MRA seal opened