Big Star

I haven't seen the doc yet but there may be some kind of sense to that as the early 90s Big Star revival was mostly inspired by British bands dropping the band's name in interviews.

― Position Position, Saturday, January 11, 2014 5:58 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

sure, but... who gives a fuck?

Suppose it makes a change from Thurston Moore and Henry Rollins

also am impressed with the effeminate quality of alex chilton's voice. tav falco has something of that, too.

A lot of times IME that's just how some southern men talk. It sometimes codes as effeminate or "gay" but it's just a particular combination of dialect and lilt that I've heard IRL from a lot of men from Tennessee, the Carolinas, and Georgia.

My uncle has the same accent. You can especially tell when he says something like "well I don't know."

Carolinas for sure. I used to find it really distracting in certain men because it had a way of increasing their appeal by roughly 1/3 even when they were not particularly appealing people.

i.e. Lindsey Graham

wait that's a different accent than the one i'm talking about

It's still that kinda sing-songy, rounded and somewhat feminine way of speaking.

No, not the same one, but along those lines.

Somehow this discussion is reminding me of this story Arthur Alexander: Classic or Dud/S & D?

sure, but... who gives a fuck?

ok, but without these talking head dudes the documentary probably doesn't come to be made - their interest and where they took the stuff they found in big star records is kinda part of the story. I actually agree with you, for the most part when one of them comes on I'm like "eh, you're probably just gonna say how much you like the music, not super-interesting" but at the same time, the people who got their minds blown by big star and who made music informed by their take on big star seem like part of the story to me that should somehow be included...to me it's more like, the interviewer should make those dudes dig a little deeper when they're talking

Otm. I'd rather those dudes weren't there or had something more interesting to say but it's kind of the price of entry and if it is kept to a minimum I can live with it.

in the Rob Jovanovic bk on Big Star, p much chris bell's happiest time is when he's hanging out in london w/ glyn johns etc. at some point somebody says, "never underestimate the influence of the beatles on chris bell" - so that musical dialogue with britain is inscribed into big star's music right from the start, and is worth including in a documentary abt them, and showing that it is a living dialogue, even when the ppl engaged in the conversation aren't always esp inspiring

well, i'd say tf guy comes across as far more engaged and engaging than cheap trick were, despite my general higher regard for the works of cheap trick.

i.e. Lindsey Graham

― pplains, Saturday, January 11, 2014 10:57 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wait that's a different accent than the one i'm talking about

― mambo jumbo (La Lechera), Saturday, January 11, 2014 10:58 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

also, lindsey graham is gay.

His sister doesn't want to talk about it either.

Chilton's lyrics swing between awesome and awful, huh

I realised the other day I am kind of burned out on Big Star. Maybe because there are only three albums? but that's not the case with the VU (I never play Loaded really).

The doc is a bit long but overall pretty good I think. The Posies weren't really even interviewed, which was weird. The lack of performance video, especially from the reunion years is odd, too.

Seems like the reason Chris' sexuality was downplayed was because it wasn't essential to the story. His spiritual life was something I didn't know about.

but who decides what's essential?

In Space wasn't even mentioned in passing, was it? That struck me as a little odd, but I know few who have heard it, and fewer who defend it.

aero otm, the post-dissolution noisemakers kinda made Big Star.

i really wanted to like the film but was pretty let down. i wasn'ta big fan of the Jovanovic book either, but even though it was poorly written it at least tried to go into depth on lots of things, like their drunken/drugged up adventures around memphis, or the influence of Lesa and Holliday Aldredge on Third. the film shallowly covers many things when it could have dug into just a handful of things and had much richer material.

there's this one part about 2/3 of the way through when some guy says(paraphrasing)

"Lesa Aldredge. Yeah, she was a huge influence on Third. Her influence on that record cannot be overstated. She was Alex's muse."

that's the only line in the doc that talks about her. her influence cannot be overstated...but it can definitely be understated! i mean, she and her sister were dating alex and jody at the time, and that's part of why the band and the record were sort of known as Sister Lovers at the time! anyway, it just seemed like there were a lot of things like that which could have warranted much more time, but instead just got a casual reference in the doc.

part of my problem with it, though, is that i'm starting to really dislike documentaries of this entire style. what is the point of the film? to introduce more people to big star? it starts to feel like a promo, especially when the rock stars of the late 80s and early 90s appear to make sure that viewers understand that important, well respected musicians like big star a lot. i dunno. there are tons of docs like this, and i always feel like at the end there should be a website where i can just donate money to the band and buy their t-shirts or something.

(that last bit is getting away from the music/band, so it's probably of zero interest on this thread. and of course i know nothing at all about film, so my opinion on that is pretty much worthless too. but it seems like there's a final cut pro "90 minute documentary" template that people use to make documentaries and it all seems so cookie cutter. i saw The Thin Blue Line a few months ago for the first time, and i'm probably being grossly unfair in thinking of that and a music documentary in the same general category and expecting similar levels of craftsmanship)

it's the same guy making them i think -- he's doing (did?) one about grant hart too. he lacks curiosity, i think that's the problem.

The template for me -- in terms of the style/editing, lopsided focus, length, being made by not-necessarily-filmmakers, and crowdsourciness -- for better or worse is the MC5 doc.

i have watched lots and lots and lots of documentaries and these are definitely weak sauce in terms of meaningful/substantive content or style imo

however, i would like to praise this movie's visual presence, at least the golden images of 70s men playing music that i like
that part i really enjoyed tbh!

i really wanted to like the film but was pretty let down. i wasn'ta big fan of the Jovanovic book either
What about the 33 1/3 book?

Favorite part was the graphic where they added the Argent logo right next to the logos of Stax, Volt and Enterprise- because Al Bell loved Star Trek! OK, which they didn't tell us either but

xpost
forgot about that one, it's on Radio City, right? i'd love to read it, especially as i recently picked up a used copy (a 1986 german repress) so it's on constant rotation right now

i do wish they had talked to/about more women but that doesn't seem to ever be the case, not even the ones "whose influence cannot be overstated"

Yes, Radio City.

There is more information about Alex's relationship with Lesa in the recent Oxford American Tennessee Music Issue.

33 1/3 book is wayyyyy better than the jovanovic book. not perfect, but way more in tune with the music and written well for the most part.

I went to the City Winery tribute to Big Star a few years ago in NYC, which was pretty damn cool for the most part. It was a really weird setup, cause it was general admission, so we just walked in and a hostess led us to an area and was like "where do you want to sit". There were seats at a table right up front in the center, so we suggested "there" would be OK, and they just let us sit there, even though the room was almost full! Turns out we were sitting with Lesa Aldredge and her son. I had no idea, but then all the sudden this woman (who was very nice though loopy) got up and got on stage to sing. Very weird night, but cool all around. Oddly enough the son worked a block away from where I lived at a sandwich shop. NYC is completely bizarre for these kinds of things.

Only have dipped into the 33 1/3 book as of yet, but so far I'd agree with tyler. Story about how John King got started -with the founder of FedEx!- in radio and heard The Beatles before anyone else because he had received promos of the Vee Jay releases is some great stuff.

NYC is completely bizarre for these kinds of things
A corollary is what a friend of mine once said: "in New York if you meet somebody with a famous last name, they ARE related to that person you think they are."

that's cool about Lesa, grandavis! She seems like an interesting part of the whole story. you can hear her late 70s EP over here: http://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/post/72775470034/lesa-aldridge-barbarian-women-in-rock-ep-we
it actually uses the big star backing track for "til the end of the day"

Guys, if you didn't like this doc that much, you should at least continue on the Memphis vibe and watch Respect Yourself: The Stax Records Story.

yeah need to watch that -- is it out on DVD yet? I actually just picked up Robert Gordon's new Stax book (also called Respect Yourself) from the library, but haven't started it yet. looks good though, gordon certainly is the man for the job.

Hah yeah it was really cool/strange. Gonna check out that Aldredge record. She was pretty damn endearing during the tribute. Kept wondering if the kid was A. Chilton's son, is there a possibility?

I got the DVD of that at least five years ago. Have the Robert Gordon book too, haven't it read it yet. Feel like Rob Bowman's Soulsville, USA is already the definitive book, which Gordon himself kind of acknowledges.

Stax doc is aces, and a lot more informative about their business clusterfucks than I expected it would be.

The only thing they left out of that doc was Al Jackson's horrific death.

a truly great music doc is the Cannibal Corpse one from a couple years back, but for the most part, if the band's canonical, it feels like there is for sure a template on what people want to see - and I'm assuming this has to do with how, for it to be successful, you have to be speaking to people who don't generally give a shit about music. like, people enjoy music on whatever level, but people who're already music-obsessed would prefer something that really digs deep -- whereas for general audiences, I think there's already a large barrier in place, and it's been decided that this "the incredible true story of how this came to be and what it meant to people down the line" is the template for getting around that barrier. to venture beyond that would be risky, and to take risks you need the assurance that you're not going to be throwing a lot of money down the toilet.

agree -- making documentaries is not free and takes a lot of time. it's going to have to appeal to a more mainstream audience or risk being that movie that only some people have barely heard of rather than streaming on netflix for the world to see

therefore i am obliged to mention this, which should be streaming somewhere along with the other 3 in the series at some point shortly (but not on netflix)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtSYQAtK6RY

i wish more music docs would just show loosely edited archival footage, maybe some voiceovers or something, and let us come to our own conclusions about it. like For All Mankind but instead of space, it's music.

Yeah, like The Kids Are Alright.

i saw the documentary on a boat during ATP new york, and what i remember most is how great it was to hear the music on a nice big loud sound system. it was a great-sounding documentary.

The same day I watched this I watched the Patty Schemel doc Hits So Hard, which wasn't really well put together from a cinematic point of view, but leaves few stones left unturned.

i wish more music docs would just show loosely edited archival footage, maybe some voiceovers or something, and let us come to our own conclusions about it

I totally agree w this but unfortunately this just isn't possible for the vast majority of pre-internet music, simply because most bands were not that well-documented on film during their existence

i know, it's just what i wish -- that there were a super fan weirdo in the audience with a camera who 30 years later is like "hey anyone want to see these tapes?" for every band i like