2008 USP(G)ET pt. II: counting the days to 2012 primary thread 1

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Z S, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 16:07 (fifteen years ago) link

Shakey and Tracer, that post is more my 'public persona' speaking. As my few Republican acquaintances get more and more shrill, I find the best way to deal with them is basically to offer my commiseration especially as pre-2000, he may have been a 'calculating power-broker' but by the standards of Congress, he wasn't a particularly venal one and he has seriously dropped any pretenses of being bi-partisan, appealing to the center or conducting this campaign with dignity and honor.

Michael White, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 16:08 (fifteen years ago) link

I can accept Michael's point; in 2000 I dismissed McCain as as honorable hothead. At the same time, his "shift" to the right was inevitable – he needed it to get those fundies.

But lachrymose columns mourning the death of Avenging Angel McCain are best left to the likes of Joe Klein.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 16:12 (fifteen years ago) link

Missouri was a slave state. One of the stars on the Confederate flag denotes Missouri.

Something I had to keep reminding the Show-Meers who teased Arkansas while I went to school up there.

Pleasant Plains, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 16:17 (fifteen years ago) link

Obama is tied among young people in Oklahoma, notably not a slave state, which is better than he's doing among young people in the Deep South.

gabbneb, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 16:20 (fifteen years ago) link

the new swing states he's putting into play - Colorado, Virginia, Indiana, etc. - are also states where his performance among young people outpaces his performance in even more solidly blue states

gabbneb, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 16:21 (fifteen years ago) link

just the word "oklahoma" fills me with grinding despair

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 16:22 (fifteen years ago) link

http://www.willrogers.com/new/articles/WRD_2007/Dog_Iron_Days/Wagon-Oologah.jpg

Mr. Que, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 16:23 (fifteen years ago) link

surrey with the friiiiiiiinge on toooooop

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 16:25 (fifteen years ago) link

average age of non-incumbent Dems who have won the Presidency in the last 50 years: 47
Obama's age: 47

gabbneb, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 16:26 (fifteen years ago) link

i'm excluding Gore on 'non-incumbent' and maybe also 'won', but if you include him, it's 49

gabbneb, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 16:27 (fifteen years ago) link

At the same time, his "shift" to the right was inevitable

Was it? I think it was a miscalculation on his part, 'getting out the base', etc., but before he appealed to that base he may not have been getting as much traction, publicly, as he wanted but at least it wasn't dirty tricks, lies, errors of judgment and blatant pandering and 'misspeaking' making most of the news.

Michael White, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 16:30 (fifteen years ago) link

thinking he could win the Repub nomination by appealling to the middle/independents/Democrats was totally fucking delusional so yes - drift to the right was inevitable.

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 16:31 (fifteen years ago) link

why we didn't want Mittmentum (like i said)

gabbneb, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 16:31 (fifteen years ago) link

The Republican party would be nowhere without evangelicals. McCain was either going to win by pandering to them or get killed without them.

Alex in SF, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 16:31 (fifteen years ago) link

Picking Palin was post-nomination is what I meant, Shakey.

Michael White, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 16:32 (fifteen years ago) link

Regardless, I just want every independent/center leaning Repub I know to feel abandoned by his campaign and either demoralized enough to stay home or angry enough to vote elsewhere.

Michael White, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 16:34 (fifteen years ago) link

thinking he could win the presidency by appealling to the middle/independents/Democrats was totally fucking delusional as well.

Alex in SF, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 16:34 (fifteen years ago) link

I think everyone wants that.

Alex in SF, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 16:35 (fifteen years ago) link

Well everyone other than Dr Morbius, maybe.

Alex in SF, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 16:35 (fifteen years ago) link

Michael, McCain has either lied about or misstated his positions routinely for at least the last decade. See each thrilling installment of "An Affair to Remember":

http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh092208.shtml
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh092308.shtml
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh092408.shtml

The issues he flipped on or lied about, or both:

- abortion
- prescription drugs
- his own tax plan
- health care
- school vouchers
- iraq

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 16:39 (fifteen years ago) link

I can sympathize with the softly softly approach necessary with Certain Relatives, though.

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 16:41 (fifteen years ago) link

Tracer, it's not like I've been drinking the Kool-Aid on McCain, it's just that I remember a time when he used to spout off about how 'independent' he was and how he would work with the other side for 'America's best interest'. He's basically not saying that much any more.

Michael White, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 16:51 (fifteen years ago) link

??!?! Um he said that a bunch of times during his convention speech.

Alex in SF, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 16:53 (fifteen years ago) link

I think he still thinks of himself as a crazy rebel too. HESGONNASHAKETHINGSUPS!

Alex in SF, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 16:55 (fifteen years ago) link

man you guys bored huh

TOMBOT, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 16:56 (fifteen years ago) link

"hey california man I dunno about you but maybe you didn't realize john mccain was ALWAYS a dick"

TOMBOT, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 16:57 (fifteen years ago) link

"no, I knew that, but he used to pretend not to be"

"ALWAYS. TOTAL DICK."

TOMBOT, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 16:58 (fifteen years ago) link

And now we're all caught up.

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 16:59 (fifteen years ago) link

IF WASTING TIME ON THE INTERNET IS A FIRING OFFENSE THEN SACK ME NOW

WAIT I DIDN'T MEAN THAT

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 17:00 (fifteen years ago) link

??!?! Um he said that a bunch of times during his convention speech.

So he did but he didn't follow that up with anything but base-rousing rhetoric and he hasn't since.

Michael White, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 17:02 (fifteen years ago) link

During vinyl sifting over the weekend, I found a record called The Voice Of Barry Goldwater which was his 1964 Republican campaign 33 1/3rd. (hey Obama, where's your 2008 campaign vinyl??!) Side A was all pretty much "we must protect ourselves from Communists and Cuba, etc. etc." which is not surprising at all for any campaign in 1964. But Side B? It was a mission statement by Goldwater on how to be "Free Men". He then goes on to list all the things to do fiscally that the Republicans have done the *complete opposite* since Nixon basically, but especially Reagan, Bush I, and of course GWB, down to the events just days ago.

Most of us know Goldwater as the O.G. Libertarian Republican (or back in 1964, a Republican), but the pain of the GWB administration really hurts when I read the liner notes on the Side B part. I plan to take pictures of this record and transcribe the liner notes in a few days. I hope to digitize Side B soon after.

Please send me mail or email saying "POST THE GOLDWATER SHIT". Seriously. This is something I can't sleep on.

Mackro Mackro, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 17:06 (fifteen years ago) link

Goldwater was infamous for penning irritated letters to Republican presidents whenever they failed in their devotion to fiscal conservatism and common sense.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 17:09 (fifteen years ago) link

lol. Amazon has it for sale

I should post a customer review.

Mackro Mackro, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 17:10 (fifteen years ago) link

Dear Mr. President

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 17:15 (fifteen years ago) link

gold color vinyl?!?

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 17:15 (fifteen years ago) link

"This Administration deserves to be trusted because it has kept us safe from terrorist attack since 9/11, has fought and won two wars, has presided over eight years of economic growth, has appointed two stellar justices to the Supreme Court, and has even learned how to do Louisiana’s job of protecting that state from hurricanes. The day will come, and not before long, when Americans will wish that George Bush was still president," - Steven Calabresi, professor of law at the Northwestern University Law School.

deej, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 17:17 (fifteen years ago) link

I saw that on Sully's blog. "The day will come" - lol

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 17:17 (fifteen years ago) link

http://www.flashreport.org/images/Bizarro.jpg

deej, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 17:18 (fifteen years ago) link

What I'm really getting at, Tom, is the extent to which the Republican party continues in its current trajectory towards flat-earth evangelicals, culture war Neanderthals, and 'free-trade' ideologues. McCain, at one point posed as an alternative to that, of sorts. 'Liberal' and center-leaning Republicanism is increasingly rare, whihc is dangerous to the country as it is to the party's future, methinks. As a famous Republican once put it, "You can fool all of the people sometimes and some of the people all of the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time." The evangelicals have placed themselves in the way of scientific progress in everything from global warming to stem cell research and have to cling to objectively lowered scholastic standards to make sure their kids aren't seduced by the Devil, the culture warriors are jingoistic, often racist, and will get us into trouble abroad and needless, intolerant strife at home, and anybody from a libertarian to a business type who thinks the Repubs are the free-trade party is smoking some seriously high grade crack considering the cronyism of the party BOTH in Congress and the Administration and the incredible power-hungry nature of the Administration, recently seen in Paulson asking for one of the Republic's largest ever concessions of power to the executive, all in the name of corporate socialism (once known as fascism) in nationalizing debt while keeping profit free - hardly a mainstay of the Chicago School or the Rand-lovers or the usual the-market-is-more-efficient apologists of capitalism.

Michael White, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 17:19 (fifteen years ago) link

'Liberal' and center-leaning Republicanism is increasingly rare

yeah, this was my grandfather. fiscal conservative, small government-type but with a social conscience/deeply held Xtian belief in ministering to the needs of the less fortunate. He's not around anymore, and neither is the Republican party he used to belong to.

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 17:23 (fifteen years ago) link

It's not an *if* regarding the inevitable facelift and/or death of the Republican party in our lifetime. It's when.

It will most likely be a face-lift, and it will have to be more Libertarian leaning for the Republican party to survive. I truly believe McCain wanted this, but he wasn't going to win this year on that idea, apparently. Hence Palin.

The Republicans' most loyal voting block is literally dying off, yet they continue to pander to the old. The problem for the Republicans here is: now the Baby Boomers are the New Old.. and Baby Boomers are seemingly less Republican than their previous generation.

Mackro Mackro, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 17:26 (fifteen years ago) link

Shakey, I always liked debating them, 'cause the center of their political sense was solidly 'conservative' in an anti-utopian, pragmatic way and they tended to eschew hard-ideology.

Michael White, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 17:26 (fifteen years ago) link

and Baby Boomers are seemingly less Republican than their previous generation.

except for this guy:

http://www.kentuckyderby.info/images/dennis-hopper.jpg

akm, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 17:29 (fifteen years ago) link

The country needs a sensible 'liberal' (in the original sense) party for balance but I don't really see it anywhere. The Libertarians are too purist, The Republicans talk a C- talk, but when it come down to it, they just want corporate donations from a corporate class who is as scared of genuinely free-trade as they probably should be and the image of the Democratic party's attatchment to free-speech/civil rights has been marred by much of their going along too easily in the 'War on Terror' and things like H. R. Clinton's co-sponsoring a bill to ban flag-burning.

Michael White, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 17:33 (fifteen years ago) link

My boss put it nicely at the Dem Convention: there are Pat Roberts Republicans, and Pat Robertson Republicans. We can work with the former, not so much the latter.

My Pat Roberts Republican in-laws in MI are voting Obama; their Pat Roberts Republican friends are organizing for Obama in MI.

the missing boy (Euler), Wednesday, 24 September 2008 17:39 (fifteen years ago) link

"why-im-voting-4-obama-790983.JPG"
http://aquabotic.com/uploaded_images/why-im-voting-4-obama-790983.JPG

Kramkoob (Catsupppppppppppppp dude 茄蕃), Wednesday, 24 September 2008 17:40 (fifteen years ago) link

ok i need to know the genesis of that photo

////////YAY\\\\\\\\ (ice crӕm), Wednesday, 24 September 2008 17:42 (fifteen years ago) link

god made it

Mohammed Butt (max), Wednesday, 24 September 2008 17:43 (fifteen years ago) link

My dad is a liberal Republican who has been championing Obama since the primaries; he's been regularly donating money to his campaign since its inception.

i am the small cat (HI DERE), Wednesday, 24 September 2008 17:45 (fifteen years ago) link


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