Sea Devils And Die: GeroniMoffat's Doctor Who In The 2010s

matt smith era by far most popular who era in the us in terms of number of viewers

Clara is totally a real person. The arc of 7b is about the Doctor being wrong and a dick about her. We know about her aspirations and how they're tempered by circumstance and loyalty and caring. We know she's one of the only companions ever to have enough self-belief and independence to not run away in the TARDIS, and insist on her own life and identity. We know she's really great at communicating with children, and see this grow from a background setting, to plot usefulness, to becoming an actual fulfilling career. She stands out from other companions in the way she brazens through scary and challenging situations while plainly totally bricking it inside - the anti-peril-monkey.

The Clara that travels with the Doctor from Bells Of St John is treated like a plot contrivance by The Doctor, due to his encounters with other versions in Asylum and Snowmen. But she's never written or played like this, and Name Of The Doctor shows that he - if his behaviour throughout, esp the lif-stalking at the start of Rings, hadn't already made it clear - was a cock, and not being fair, to do so.

^ x-post

yeah, the Smith/Moffat era is by a long chalk the most popular globally in terms of viewer numbers / DVD sales / merchandise / fan engagement in multiple age groups & platforms & so forth.

I'm not sure the ratings hold up your spod theory though.

smith has kept people watching imo. if the mega-clever twisty plot bizzo keeps on into capaldi it'll be interesting to see where the ratings go.

Why exactly do I need to care about ratings and accessibility to first-time viewers, anyway? Why do these issues annoy people so much? Don't tv shows have marketing departments for these sort of things anyway?

Aside from that I have to admit I find Clara pretty dull. I miss the Arthur Dent-ish perspective that Rory added. All the other companions (except Martha) have had other characters to interact with outside the doctor. Clara always seems a bit motivation-less. The writing doesn't sell her and neither does the performance.

Clara is totally a real person.

yes (and yes to the rest of your post) but she was an enigma first. moffat wheeled out the puzzle before the character.

The Doctor is the one wheeling out the puzzle. We are only ever shown [the "proper"] Clara Oswald on her own terms.

Why exactly do I need to care about ratings and accessibility to first-time viewers, anyway?

high-concept sci-fi arguably killed the show in the '80s, and it could easily happen again. doctor who thrives/survives on its broad appeal—it's not like say the bsg reboot, where people-like-us are all that's needed to bring in a load of cash. if it fails to maintain several million viewers a week and however many squillions in merchandise revenue, the bbc will forcibly reboot it or throw it back on ice.

for all the criticism levelled at rtd, his version of the show exploded thanks largely to his much-maligned (including by me at the time) focus on earth stories and human beings and vaguely soap interactions. it was very, very accessible. yes he occasionally got all timey-wimey and universe-at-stake and so forth, but those periods (a) didn't last long and (b) didn't appear to be bragging the writer's incredible cleverness.

i didn't mention first-time viewers but christ knows how they're getting a grip on all this.

xp moffat is the one wheeling out the puzzle.

oh god please don't let this become a 'YOU ARE' closed loop

The show being rubbish killed it in the eighties.

first-time viewers but christ knows how they're getting a grip on all this.

Suspect the, ahem, brand is strong enough that a lot of first time viewers will be prepared to do a lot of the work themselves.

Based on very limited anecdotal evidence, a lot of kids love all the timey-wimey stuff, and hate the boring love bits and the bits with boring suburban families of companions.

Not a fan of the current set up myself tho, because fuck a young doctor who

a lot of kids love all the timey-wimey stuff, and hate the boring love bits

kids otm

I don't have kids myself but every time I think "is anyone even still following this apart from the hardcore online fandom" my coworkers mention how into it their kids (age 10-14) are and I feel gently reassured

Yeah they're all totally nuts for it at the secondary school my friend teaches at.

What is a hardcore fan exactly? Me and Ms Chuck watch every episode and occasional Pertwees on Netflix, but it's not like we've started a Tumblr blog or anything

My cousins who are in middle school in a Minnesotan exurb shithole also love it.

Part of me thinks that if the kids are all over it then our jaded criticisms are basically irrelevant.

all of our everything are basically irrelevant

my son (who is 7 1/2) is obsessed with it.

Part of me thinks that if the kids are all over it then our jaded criticisms are basically irrelevant.

new board descrip

All your base are basically irrelevant.

kids these days

stupid kids, too dumb to know to hate this kids show

I enjoyed the Christmas special. Maybe not one of the best episodes but that last speech by Smith was great and the few seconds of the new Doctor we got was manic and exciting and fun as anything!

The quick regeneration was a nice touch! Definitely set it apart from the way too sentimental final episode of the 10th.

would also propose we start a new thread for capaldi era and that the thread title include the phrase 'OH MY GOD HE'S OOGLY'

OTM

/I'm not sure the ratings hold up your spod theory though./

smith has kept people watching imo. if the mega-clever twisty plot bizzo keeps on into capaldi it'll be interesting to see where the ratings go.

So. Because you don't like it, the factual evidence that more people have watched it than ever doesn't matter?

Well now I'm walking back that last post because it is massive overstatement caused by beers. The core sentiment still stands, though.

uh huh

kept ppl watching is wrong there - far far more ppl are watching now than the tennant era.

Clara is a total babe and just otm 100% my type I can't really judge objectively whether or not her story is any good. I enjoy it and it seems to make as much sense as anything in Who universe.

Have to admit I was kind of WTF about the crack in the universe re-appearing but then realized who cares this is how Dr Who rolls.

I don't know why I want to make a distinction between the way Who rolls now and the way it rolled before, but I do. What's funny is that late-Smith Who is probably closer to the classics than anything else in nu-Who.

So basically, my instincts are probably wrong.

http://www.tom-baker.co.uk/assets_cm/files/Image/tom_jazz.jpg

"All this year, in between all this Whooha, I have been nourished by my daily walks in the wood with our dog Poppy and our quirky little Burmese cat called Jazz who loves walks as much as Poppy even when the weather is bad. However, if it rains she leaps from ground level onto my shoulders for a ride so she doesn’t have to get her feet wet and curls around my neck to avoid the mud and puddles. To pass the time on bleak mornings I recite a few favourite passages from Shakespeare! Sometimes Jazz peers into my mouth as I spout speeches from Richard the third."

Clara is a total babe and just otm 100% my type I can't really judge objectively whether or not her story is any good. I enjoy it and it seems to make as much sense as anything in Who universe.

You have the courage I lack to express this very sentiment. I thank you, sir.

Have to admit I was kind of WTF about the crack in the universe re-appearing but then realized who cares this is how Dr Who rolls.

Zactly. It was Moff's version of RTD having Tennant fly past all his companions, but Moff decided to go with his Rogue's Gallery (Angels, crack, Silence, plus throwing in the Cybermen and Daleks because Doctor Who) and sowed them all throughout the episode.

I pretty much loved this btw; it's like the 3rd Doctor's exile to Earth and collaboration with UNIT, only by choice and condensed into one episode and a hell of a lot longer

So there's basically zero indication of what happened in between the Doctor appearing on Trenzalore for the first time and Clara jumping into the time vortex or whatever and the start of the 50th Anniversary episode?

No: the Doctor takes her back home and goes on adventures, she takes her travels with him as fulfilling her wanderlust and translates her skills with children into training as a schoolteacher and getting a London-based proper job.

there do seem to be kind of weird gaps that I wasn't expecting between name day and time but whatever.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/1/27/1390848781372/Peter-Capaldi-as-the-Doct-001.jpg

The Pertwee callback is incredible

badass

the doctor tailor otm

no sonic

Since they now have older dude in the role, do you think they'll tone down the romantic tease between the Doctor and companions? (This was already reduced during Smith's tenure, compared to all the soap opera Tennant went through.) If they keep casting young women as companions, any romance plot is bound to look a bit creepy. I wouldn't mind seeing an older, more self-assured person in the role for change, though... Donna was by far my favourite nu-Who companion, I loved her take-no-shit attitude, as compared to the worshippy relation some of the others have had with the Doctor.

ditko fingers!

haha, otm

I've never watched old Dr. Who, so I was kinda wondering, has it ever been explained why the Doctor changes like he does between regenerations? Is there some reason he goes from old geezer to young dude and back to old geezer again, or is it totally random?

Did I hear that Capaldi was actually the oldest actor to play the Doctor so far, apart possibly from Tom Baker though not sure if that was what he was playing in that cameo. Though Hurt must presumably be a couple of years older surely? & I'm not sure how old Hartnell was, mid 50s?

I had a couple of reservations with the look, hair would be better longer and Dr Marten shoes are a bit clunky. But going back to the semi Edwardian look that seems to have been present with every doctor apart from Eccleston is good. I think Smith was even heading back in that direction in the last series when he got the longer coat.

As to what determines the age of the regeneration, is that down to the whim of whoever is running the production at the time of the change? Speculation was pretty wide on the last couple. He was even speculated to come back black or female. They have been pretty good choices up to now, though not used to their best in some cases. I'd still like to see Andy Serkis as a doctor think he'd be good

As to what determines the age of the regeneration, is that down to the whim of whoever is running the production at the time of the change?

Hartnell was a couple of centuries old, Troughton was 600-odd, Baker/Davison/Baker all gave their age in the 700s. Smith has given his age as expanding from 900-odd to 1200-odd, plus another few centuries in the last episode, but it's also been fairly openly said that he's both lying and can't remember. The Eighth had several centuries of adventures in the BBC line alone, let alone comics and audio.

As for casting decisions, yes they're all made on whim, and not on the skills of the actor involved.

Well yeah, obviously the real-life explanation are the whims of the producers, but what I meant, has there ever been in an in-universe explanation for why the Doctor's age (not the actual age, obviously, but the age he appears to be) and other attributes change between regenerations?

(xpost)

Not really a fan of the DMs either, or the trousers, but the top half is cool.

Probably time for a new thread I'd say.