Sea Devils And Die: GeroniMoffat's Doctor Who In The 2010s

I think the actress has been doing a game job with a bunch of very variable scripts. She doesn't have Amy's charisma.

lol Amy had charisma?

Yeah I knew someone would say that. I think she did.

amy had red hair

amy had legs and red hair

amy had legs and red hair

OTM.

Especially the past tense. T______T

but I do think she had a lot of charisma, she was the most likable nu-era companion aside from donna, to me. I mean I guess you can say she was just pouty and legs and hair but I think she had depth.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/f193a28c131fdcffffd401e398e46668/tumblr_mydrooQl2s1qg3q94o1_1280.jpg

such legs

Nobody has ever mistaken my red hair for charisma. I must be doing it wrong.

I didn't really care for this, though I can't get too angry about it either. Wacky naked Doctor hijinks put me in a slightly grumpy mood not improved by a tour of all the loose ends of the last 3 series joined together in a slightly unconvincing manner.

Some nice moments though and will miss Smith despite being quite tired of Moffat writing for Smith. Hoping Capaldi's non-Smith/Tennant-ishness will force things in a new direction but we'll see.

Hoping Capaldi's non-Smith/Tennant-ishness will force things in a new direction but we'll see.

https://24.media.tumblr.com/131ff7c99aab5a56f094d94348fb38ee/tumblr_mygtx4ttyC1sn0j3jo2_500.png

;_;

OMG HES NOT OOGLY

I really enjoyed that -- the writing has been underwhelming on Smith's run but I do appreciate just how weird it's been. There were lots of shows in the template of RTD's Doctor Who run (e.g. Buffy) but there's really been nothing like Moffatt's twisty three seasons (even if only about 30-50% of it actually worked). Smith certainly leaves with a lot of untapped potential, something you couldn't have said about Tennant.

Aside for that I want to thank sic for his relentless (perhaps too relentless) positivity on this thread, and always look forward to hearing his take.

once amy stopped pouting she developed thanks to stories like 'the girl who waited'. i was not a fan and don't miss her, but she definitely improved as a character towards the end (rory's growth also helped that along imo).

the problem i have with clara is that she never got to be a real person before she became an enigma. rose, martha, donna, amy and rory were all normal people in the sequence of the show before they became warriors/gods of all time/etc, but clara was introduced as a supertemporal puzzle for the show to solve. at first i thought she had more potential than martha and amy combined (i just about fell out of my chair with joy in that first dalek/soufflé episode), but now i can't help seeing her as moffat's manifestation of his own incredible smugness.

one of the things i thought really hurt 'the time of the doctor' (and 'the day of the doctor') was the almost complete lack of standard, simple, human characters through which the viewer can relate, but i've already gone on about that like six times, so i'll just add this: right now i don't have a single non-sci-fi-spod friend who enjoys doctor who any more. obv there's nothing wrong with being a sci-fi spod (some of my best friends are sci-fi spods) but once the show loses everyone else it'll have a hell of a time trying to win them back.

We're all spods now.

I'm not sure the ratings hold up your spod theory though.

matt smith era by far most popular who era in the us in terms of number of viewers

Clara is totally a real person. The arc of 7b is about the Doctor being wrong and a dick about her. We know about her aspirations and how they're tempered by circumstance and loyalty and caring. We know she's one of the only companions ever to have enough self-belief and independence to not run away in the TARDIS, and insist on her own life and identity. We know she's really great at communicating with children, and see this grow from a background setting, to plot usefulness, to becoming an actual fulfilling career. She stands out from other companions in the way she brazens through scary and challenging situations while plainly totally bricking it inside - the anti-peril-monkey.

The Clara that travels with the Doctor from Bells Of St John is treated like a plot contrivance by The Doctor, due to his encounters with other versions in Asylum and Snowmen. But she's never written or played like this, and Name Of The Doctor shows that he - if his behaviour throughout, esp the lif-stalking at the start of Rings, hadn't already made it clear - was a cock, and not being fair, to do so.

^ x-post

yeah, the Smith/Moffat era is by a long chalk the most popular globally in terms of viewer numbers / DVD sales / merchandise / fan engagement in multiple age groups & platforms & so forth.

I'm not sure the ratings hold up your spod theory though.

smith has kept people watching imo. if the mega-clever twisty plot bizzo keeps on into capaldi it'll be interesting to see where the ratings go.

Why exactly do I need to care about ratings and accessibility to first-time viewers, anyway? Why do these issues annoy people so much? Don't tv shows have marketing departments for these sort of things anyway?

Aside from that I have to admit I find Clara pretty dull. I miss the Arthur Dent-ish perspective that Rory added. All the other companions (except Martha) have had other characters to interact with outside the doctor. Clara always seems a bit motivation-less. The writing doesn't sell her and neither does the performance.

Clara is totally a real person.

yes (and yes to the rest of your post) but she was an enigma first. moffat wheeled out the puzzle before the character.

The Doctor is the one wheeling out the puzzle. We are only ever shown [the "proper"] Clara Oswald on her own terms.

Why exactly do I need to care about ratings and accessibility to first-time viewers, anyway?

high-concept sci-fi arguably killed the show in the '80s, and it could easily happen again. doctor who thrives/survives on its broad appeal—it's not like say the bsg reboot, where people-like-us are all that's needed to bring in a load of cash. if it fails to maintain several million viewers a week and however many squillions in merchandise revenue, the bbc will forcibly reboot it or throw it back on ice.

for all the criticism levelled at rtd, his version of the show exploded thanks largely to his much-maligned (including by me at the time) focus on earth stories and human beings and vaguely soap interactions. it was very, very accessible. yes he occasionally got all timey-wimey and universe-at-stake and so forth, but those periods (a) didn't last long and (b) didn't appear to be bragging the writer's incredible cleverness.

i didn't mention first-time viewers but christ knows how they're getting a grip on all this.

xp moffat is the one wheeling out the puzzle.

oh god please don't let this become a 'YOU ARE' closed loop

The show being rubbish killed it in the eighties.

first-time viewers but christ knows how they're getting a grip on all this.

Suspect the, ahem, brand is strong enough that a lot of first time viewers will be prepared to do a lot of the work themselves.

Based on very limited anecdotal evidence, a lot of kids love all the timey-wimey stuff, and hate the boring love bits and the bits with boring suburban families of companions.

Not a fan of the current set up myself tho, because fuck a young doctor who

a lot of kids love all the timey-wimey stuff, and hate the boring love bits

kids otm

I don't have kids myself but every time I think "is anyone even still following this apart from the hardcore online fandom" my coworkers mention how into it their kids (age 10-14) are and I feel gently reassured

Yeah they're all totally nuts for it at the secondary school my friend teaches at.

What is a hardcore fan exactly? Me and Ms Chuck watch every episode and occasional Pertwees on Netflix, but it's not like we've started a Tumblr blog or anything

My cousins who are in middle school in a Minnesotan exurb shithole also love it.

Part of me thinks that if the kids are all over it then our jaded criticisms are basically irrelevant.

all of our everything are basically irrelevant

my son (who is 7 1/2) is obsessed with it.

Part of me thinks that if the kids are all over it then our jaded criticisms are basically irrelevant.

new board descrip

All your base are basically irrelevant.

kids these days

stupid kids, too dumb to know to hate this kids show

I enjoyed the Christmas special. Maybe not one of the best episodes but that last speech by Smith was great and the few seconds of the new Doctor we got was manic and exciting and fun as anything!

The quick regeneration was a nice touch! Definitely set it apart from the way too sentimental final episode of the 10th.

would also propose we start a new thread for capaldi era and that the thread title include the phrase 'OH MY GOD HE'S OOGLY'

OTM

/I'm not sure the ratings hold up your spod theory though./

smith has kept people watching imo. if the mega-clever twisty plot bizzo keeps on into capaldi it'll be interesting to see where the ratings go.

So. Because you don't like it, the factual evidence that more people have watched it than ever doesn't matter?

Well now I'm walking back that last post because it is massive overstatement caused by beers. The core sentiment still stands, though.

uh huh

kept ppl watching is wrong there - far far more ppl are watching now than the tennant era.

Clara is a total babe and just otm 100% my type I can't really judge objectively whether or not her story is any good. I enjoy it and it seems to make as much sense as anything in Who universe.

Have to admit I was kind of WTF about the crack in the universe re-appearing but then realized who cares this is how Dr Who rolls.

I don't know why I want to make a distinction between the way Who rolls now and the way it rolled before, but I do. What's funny is that late-Smith Who is probably closer to the classics than anything else in nu-Who.

So basically, my instincts are probably wrong.

http://www.tom-baker.co.uk/assets_cm/files/Image/tom_jazz.jpg

"All this year, in between all this Whooha, I have been nourished by my daily walks in the wood with our dog Poppy and our quirky little Burmese cat called Jazz who loves walks as much as Poppy even when the weather is bad. However, if it rains she leaps from ground level onto my shoulders for a ride so she doesn’t have to get her feet wet and curls around my neck to avoid the mud and puddles. To pass the time on bleak mornings I recite a few favourite passages from Shakespeare! Sometimes Jazz peers into my mouth as I spout speeches from Richard the third."