Sea Devils And Die: GeroniMoffat's Doctor Who In The 2010s

I can see why they won't let them go though, they're the only new monsters who have really gained iconic status.

It's their own fault for nerfing them, though.

Oh come on, I just watched the xmas ep after having read all the complaining and criticism in advance.

I loved it! And I was pretty lukewarm about most of Series 7. I felt like Smith-as-old-man was almost a sort of payoff for enduring the more obnoxiously manic bits that have increasingly dominated the characterization.

I don't get the hate! Oh well...

re: the doctor's grave - it's possible that a future incarnation of him died on Trenzalore anyway? iirc River Song wasn't supposed to be there at all (she's still in the Library) - the doctor or someone else put her gravestone there to hide the secret entrance to his tomb.

Funny given all the doubts about him when he was first cast but I'm going to miss Matt Smith so much. Didn't matter how rubbish the stories were - he always found a way to make them work somehow.

oh whoops someone else already explained abt river song's grave upthread - that's what i get for skimming and posting first, and reading properly later. :/

the one smart-arse bit i liked was "WITH YOUR RULES!" - comparing the Daleks to the canon-preservation-society of fans (with their insistence on regeneration count) that had forced the plot-gymnastics

― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan)

Britain's Obtusest Shepherd OTM. That, and the inversion of the old 'immortal' character stays young and watches mortal 'love' grow old thing.

[also hello Sic, I said the other night I'd say hello when I bumped into you on here]

Yeah I liked the mortality aspect too. Smith's Doctor lived for at least 600 years as far as I can tell, which represents a pretty good innings considering he was only 900 years old at the start of the Tennant era.

Noticed a shift in the last couple of seasons between the companion who travels with the Doctor at all times and the companion who pops in and out of the Tardis in between their normal life. Amy and Rory did this in the last season or two as well.

They're probably going to need to bump up the Tardis crew a bit in the Capaldi era, I'm not sure that young girl travels with scary bug-eyed old guy is quite going to cut it with today's audience but another person or two in there would balance it a bit.

Some companions who aren't Clara ftw.

can we get a moratorium on the weeping bloody angels jfc they were cool ONE TIME

THIS THIS BLOODY THIS

Eh, I'm excited for the first time in a few years - hoping the change in Doctor and the wrapping up of all the byzantine plot threads points towards a major change of tack for next season.

if moffat's full of anything it's surprises. not holding my breath though.

"Some companions who aren't Clara ftw."

I really like her now.

I think the actress has been doing a game job with a bunch of very variable scripts. She doesn't have Amy's charisma.

lol Amy had charisma?

Yeah I knew someone would say that. I think she did.

amy had red hair

amy had legs and red hair

amy had legs and red hair

OTM.

Especially the past tense. T______T

but I do think she had a lot of charisma, she was the most likable nu-era companion aside from donna, to me. I mean I guess you can say she was just pouty and legs and hair but I think she had depth.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/f193a28c131fdcffffd401e398e46668/tumblr_mydrooQl2s1qg3q94o1_1280.jpg

such legs

Nobody has ever mistaken my red hair for charisma. I must be doing it wrong.

I didn't really care for this, though I can't get too angry about it either. Wacky naked Doctor hijinks put me in a slightly grumpy mood not improved by a tour of all the loose ends of the last 3 series joined together in a slightly unconvincing manner.

Some nice moments though and will miss Smith despite being quite tired of Moffat writing for Smith. Hoping Capaldi's non-Smith/Tennant-ishness will force things in a new direction but we'll see.

Hoping Capaldi's non-Smith/Tennant-ishness will force things in a new direction but we'll see.

https://24.media.tumblr.com/131ff7c99aab5a56f094d94348fb38ee/tumblr_mygtx4ttyC1sn0j3jo2_500.png

;_;

OMG HES NOT OOGLY

I really enjoyed that -- the writing has been underwhelming on Smith's run but I do appreciate just how weird it's been. There were lots of shows in the template of RTD's Doctor Who run (e.g. Buffy) but there's really been nothing like Moffatt's twisty three seasons (even if only about 30-50% of it actually worked). Smith certainly leaves with a lot of untapped potential, something you couldn't have said about Tennant.

Aside for that I want to thank sic for his relentless (perhaps too relentless) positivity on this thread, and always look forward to hearing his take.

once amy stopped pouting she developed thanks to stories like 'the girl who waited'. i was not a fan and don't miss her, but she definitely improved as a character towards the end (rory's growth also helped that along imo).

the problem i have with clara is that she never got to be a real person before she became an enigma. rose, martha, donna, amy and rory were all normal people in the sequence of the show before they became warriors/gods of all time/etc, but clara was introduced as a supertemporal puzzle for the show to solve. at first i thought she had more potential than martha and amy combined (i just about fell out of my chair with joy in that first dalek/soufflé episode), but now i can't help seeing her as moffat's manifestation of his own incredible smugness.

one of the things i thought really hurt 'the time of the doctor' (and 'the day of the doctor') was the almost complete lack of standard, simple, human characters through which the viewer can relate, but i've already gone on about that like six times, so i'll just add this: right now i don't have a single non-sci-fi-spod friend who enjoys doctor who any more. obv there's nothing wrong with being a sci-fi spod (some of my best friends are sci-fi spods) but once the show loses everyone else it'll have a hell of a time trying to win them back.

We're all spods now.

I'm not sure the ratings hold up your spod theory though.

matt smith era by far most popular who era in the us in terms of number of viewers

Clara is totally a real person. The arc of 7b is about the Doctor being wrong and a dick about her. We know about her aspirations and how they're tempered by circumstance and loyalty and caring. We know she's one of the only companions ever to have enough self-belief and independence to not run away in the TARDIS, and insist on her own life and identity. We know she's really great at communicating with children, and see this grow from a background setting, to plot usefulness, to becoming an actual fulfilling career. She stands out from other companions in the way she brazens through scary and challenging situations while plainly totally bricking it inside - the anti-peril-monkey.

The Clara that travels with the Doctor from Bells Of St John is treated like a plot contrivance by The Doctor, due to his encounters with other versions in Asylum and Snowmen. But she's never written or played like this, and Name Of The Doctor shows that he - if his behaviour throughout, esp the lif-stalking at the start of Rings, hadn't already made it clear - was a cock, and not being fair, to do so.

^ x-post

yeah, the Smith/Moffat era is by a long chalk the most popular globally in terms of viewer numbers / DVD sales / merchandise / fan engagement in multiple age groups & platforms & so forth.

I'm not sure the ratings hold up your spod theory though.

smith has kept people watching imo. if the mega-clever twisty plot bizzo keeps on into capaldi it'll be interesting to see where the ratings go.

Why exactly do I need to care about ratings and accessibility to first-time viewers, anyway? Why do these issues annoy people so much? Don't tv shows have marketing departments for these sort of things anyway?

Aside from that I have to admit I find Clara pretty dull. I miss the Arthur Dent-ish perspective that Rory added. All the other companions (except Martha) have had other characters to interact with outside the doctor. Clara always seems a bit motivation-less. The writing doesn't sell her and neither does the performance.

Clara is totally a real person.

yes (and yes to the rest of your post) but she was an enigma first. moffat wheeled out the puzzle before the character.

The Doctor is the one wheeling out the puzzle. We are only ever shown [the "proper"] Clara Oswald on her own terms.

Why exactly do I need to care about ratings and accessibility to first-time viewers, anyway?

high-concept sci-fi arguably killed the show in the '80s, and it could easily happen again. doctor who thrives/survives on its broad appeal—it's not like say the bsg reboot, where people-like-us are all that's needed to bring in a load of cash. if it fails to maintain several million viewers a week and however many squillions in merchandise revenue, the bbc will forcibly reboot it or throw it back on ice.

for all the criticism levelled at rtd, his version of the show exploded thanks largely to his much-maligned (including by me at the time) focus on earth stories and human beings and vaguely soap interactions. it was very, very accessible. yes he occasionally got all timey-wimey and universe-at-stake and so forth, but those periods (a) didn't last long and (b) didn't appear to be bragging the writer's incredible cleverness.

i didn't mention first-time viewers but christ knows how they're getting a grip on all this.

xp moffat is the one wheeling out the puzzle.

oh god please don't let this become a 'YOU ARE' closed loop

The show being rubbish killed it in the eighties.

first-time viewers but christ knows how they're getting a grip on all this.

Suspect the, ahem, brand is strong enough that a lot of first time viewers will be prepared to do a lot of the work themselves.

Based on very limited anecdotal evidence, a lot of kids love all the timey-wimey stuff, and hate the boring love bits and the bits with boring suburban families of companions.

Not a fan of the current set up myself tho, because fuck a young doctor who

a lot of kids love all the timey-wimey stuff, and hate the boring love bits

kids otm

I don't have kids myself but every time I think "is anyone even still following this apart from the hardcore online fandom" my coworkers mention how into it their kids (age 10-14) are and I feel gently reassured

Yeah they're all totally nuts for it at the secondary school my friend teaches at.

What is a hardcore fan exactly? Me and Ms Chuck watch every episode and occasional Pertwees on Netflix, but it's not like we've started a Tumblr blog or anything

My cousins who are in middle school in a Minnesotan exurb shithole also love it.

Part of me thinks that if the kids are all over it then our jaded criticisms are basically irrelevant.

all of our everything are basically irrelevant

my son (who is 7 1/2) is obsessed with it.

Part of me thinks that if the kids are all over it then our jaded criticisms are basically irrelevant.

new board descrip

All your base are basically irrelevant.