Also even if so, I think the line pretty clearly comes off in context as her being sly, not "I literally think you may have drugged me"
― signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 18:28 (ten years ago) link
this is my favorite christmas song. is the ella/louis version for sure the best version ever or are there others that are possibly better?
― Mordy , Tuesday, 24 December 2013 18:28 (ten years ago) link
also, this is not one of those threads where matt p is killing it, unfortunately
like "what's in this drink" is a pretty normal thing to want to know mickey or not!
― sad banta (wins), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 18:28 (ten years ago) link
(how have you never heard this song? i'm a jew and i've heard this song a million times in my life?)
― Mordy , Tuesday, 24 December 2013 18:29 (ten years ago) link
totally ignorant of this song, thanks for the background info balls. it sounds like it's kind of a camp thing? xp
― From the Album No Baby for You! (Matt P), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 18:30 (ten years ago) link
My best friend in hs would always say of creepy guys, "he seems like the kind of guy that would slip you a mickey." Was actually thinking about this last night – when did my mind transition from thinking of date rape drugs as "slipping you a mickey" to "getting roofied"? I decided it was definitely this century.
xp to Hurting
― even the beatles had a coinstar machine in their living room (Crabbits), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 18:30 (ten years ago) link
uhh i guess i should listen to it. my bad
― From the Album No Baby for You! (Matt P), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 18:31 (ten years ago) link
i just don't get how it's possible to get ignorant of this song. have u ever heard that obscure jingle bells tune? another pretty popular one.
― Mordy , Tuesday, 24 December 2013 18:31 (ten years ago) link
It's kind of weird that Loesser and his wife sang this at the end of their Christmas party to signify that the guests should start getting ready to leave.
― Le passé, non seulement n'est pas fugace, il reste sur place (Michael White), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 18:32 (ten years ago) link
haha I still basically mainly know this from the tom jones versh
― sad banta (wins), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 18:32 (ten years ago) link
idk, maybe i have, but i can't stop hearing "winter song" by don armando's second avenue rumba band in its place.
― From the Album No Baby for You! (Matt P), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 18:33 (ten years ago) link
xp plying a woman with mystery cocktail of unknown strength in order to manipulate her into sleeping with you doesn't strike you as a bit
― sad banta (wins), Tuesday, December 24, 2013 1:27 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I feel like all this use of words like "manipulate" assumes that a woman in this situation couldn't possibly WANT a man to be a little bit persistent, and given the nature of her "refusals" in that song I think that seems pretty clear. I mean I get that guys often see "she wants me to be persistent" when it isn't there, and I'm all for playing things on the safe side when it comes to that, but you guys do realize that there is such a thing, a common one even, as a woman wanting to play the game of having a guy convince her, right? I understand that that kind of thinking sometimes does indeed lead to date rape, but at the same time I feel like we're getting to the point of denying that that kind of dynamic could and often does exist in a consensual situation.
― signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 18:35 (ten years ago) link
would love to hear an "antioch rules" version of this.
― how's life, Tuesday, 24 December 2013 18:37 (ten years ago) link
Jeez, it's not a rape song, it's a foreplay song.
http://persephonemagazine.com/2010/12/listening-while-feminist-in-defense-of-baby-its-cold-outside/
― kate78, Tuesday, 24 December 2013 18:45 (ten years ago) link
Thanks, kate
― Le passé, non seulement n'est pas fugace, il reste sur place (Michael White), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 18:51 (ten years ago) link
yes, thank you
― signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 18:52 (ten years ago) link
seems like the same superficial lyric-reading seen with the "blurred lines" controversy is characteristic of the opposition to this song. to me at least it seems like "say, what's in that drink?" (probably the most eyebrow-raising line here) isn't an accusation of drugging but rather a metaphor for the guy's charm. which it must be said, isn't all that strong, because it doesn't seem like in the end she explicitly stays. but if trying to get a girl to change her mind about sleeping with you is rapey then i think we're all in trouble
the most troubling part might be the persistence of the guy, but you know, it's a song -- it has to last a few minutes.
like "blurred lines", someone with certain experiences is well within her/his rights to interpret the song less forgivingly, but it's another thing i think to make assumptions about the writer's intentions
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 24 December 2013 18:52 (ten years ago) link
this song is a target commercial for zoey deschanel to sell sweatersChoir's 'cold outside' is much better, is not a holiday song, and is mopey, not rapey, and stiv bators version is good, toohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8uTMVyhPmE
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 24 December 2013 18:55 (ten years ago) link
lol at ppl insisting 'it's not a holiday song, it's a winter song', like you routinely hear this and 'jingle bells' and 'winter wonderland' in february. this shit ain't schubert.
― balls, Tuesday, 24 December 2013 18:58 (ten years ago) link
Oh noes, I am a Cis-Het dude being made to think about rape for the whole sixth time in my life, DEAR GOD MAKE IT STOP. Why don't they ever shut up.― The Manics: Very Welsh, Much Working Class, So cialist (Branwell Bell), Tuesday, December 24, 2013 5:47 PM (1 hour ago)
― The Manics: Very Welsh, Much Working Class, So cialist (Branwell Bell), Tuesday, December 24, 2013 5:47 PM (1 hour ago)
you should try pairing this with your "i suppose now you guys will make this thread turn into a clusterfuck" schtick for full effect pro tip
― Wendy Carlos Williams (jjjusten), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 18:59 (ten years ago) link
Anyway, "Santa Baby" is far more ethically grating.
― tbd (Eazy), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 19:00 (ten years ago) link
^^^
― Le passé, non seulement n'est pas fugace, il reste sur place (Michael White), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 19:00 (ten years ago) link
lol balls
― signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 19:01 (ten years ago) link
this song is a target commercial for zoey deschanel to sell sweaters
this song existed before zooey deschanel or target
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 19:02 (ten years ago) link
witch doctor wasn't originally an alvin and the chipmunks song, but that's what it is now.
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 24 December 2013 19:18 (ten years ago) link
rob delaney @robdelaney 2h
Until it was outlawed in 1986, the “Baby It’s Cold Outside” defense was successfully used in cases involving countless atrocities.
― rip van wanko, Tuesday, 24 December 2013 19:20 (ten years ago) link
The drink is the excuse. The drink is the shield someone gets to hold up in front of them to protect from criticism. And it’s not just used in these sort of romantic situations. I’ve heard it in many investigation type scenes where the stoolpigeon character is giving up bits of information they’re supposed to be protecting, in screwball comedies where someone is making a fool of themselves, and, yes, in romantic movies where someone is experiencing feelings they are not supposed to have.
I understand the usage that's being described, but I can't think of any examples off the top of my head. Was it actually all that common in old movies?
― jmm, Tuesday, 24 December 2013 19:21 (ten years ago) link
idk that I would call this song a "carol"
― Mmm yes hello (crüt), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 19:22 (ten years ago) link
nb i don't actually know what carol means
― Mmm yes hello (crüt), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 19:23 (ten years ago) link
i don't remember it in any old movies but i vaguely remember it as a trope in old sitcoms that nick + nite played in the 90s.
― Mordy , Tuesday, 24 December 2013 19:37 (ten years ago) link
"Oh my, I guess the champagne bubbles must be going to my head"
― signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 19:37 (ten years ago) link
"The answer is no."
― rhyme heals all goons (m bison), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 19:38 (ten years ago) link
it's not hard for me to read the woman's lines as ways to get the persistent man to back off without being impolite. the "what will my family/neighbors think" is an appeal for him to protect her honor and his own. i think it's possible to interpret this as "i like you and dont want to offend you, but i really do want to leave tonight." for that and other reasons i have a pretty unforgiving interpretation of this song.
― rhyme heals all goons (m bison), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 19:42 (ten years ago) link
so why does she sing "baby it's cold outside" in harmony with him at the end?
― signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 19:46 (ten years ago) link
male songwriter wants his happy ending
― rhyme heals all goons (m bison), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 19:46 (ten years ago) link
also:“I ought to say no, no, no sir, well, at least I’m gonna say that I tried.”
― signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 19:47 (ten years ago) link
― rhyme heals all goons (m bison), Tuesday, December 24, 2013 2:46 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
oh come on, if you're just going to trump everything with "well a man wrote it so that's the way the man wants it" then there's no point in close-reading the song at all
― signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 19:48 (ten years ago) link
that's when she realizes how cold and cruel the world is xxxp
― Mmm yes hello (crüt), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 19:48 (ten years ago) link
im not saying she's not conflicted, im just not swayed by the "she's playing it coy" line of defense. he's not listening to her at all, so its not even really a back and forth; its two concurrent monologues.
― rhyme heals all goons (m bison), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 19:48 (ten years ago) link
that's the narrative the songwriter is pushing tho! due to currents socials mores she will resist but she really wants to stay with you, dont take no for answer, etc. she will come around eventually if u tell her how horny she makes you.
― rhyme heals all goons (m bison), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 19:50 (ten years ago) link
quintessential ilx thread, kudos everyone
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 24 December 2013 19:51 (ten years ago) link
But he's not taking that next step into actually doing something coercive. Like what is actually wrong with him continuing to plead with her? I feel like you're giving the woman in the song way too little credit.
― signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 19:52 (ten years ago) link
like the last part before she joins him for ~harmony~ is, guess i'll have a smoke, can i borrow your coat? I'm audi 5. during which he's like u could die also i will have blue balls quit holding out BABY ITS COLLLLLLLD OUUUUUUTSIIIIIIE
― rhyme heals all goons (m bison), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 19:53 (ten years ago) link
if someone believes all male-female sexual relationships inevitably are tainted by a quantity of coercion than there's no reason this song would be different + certainly a member of the ruling patriarchy would try to downplay anything that might make explicit said coercion. in that sense this song is much more problematic as it not only attempts to normalize male-female sexuality but normalize a particularly brazen manifestation of it - the coercive alcohol-aided seduction of the female object. in the end her own objections are utterly obliterated as she joins in harmony w/ the male's initial reading of the text - that she really should stay bc it's cold outside.
― Mordy , Tuesday, 24 December 2013 19:53 (ten years ago) link
if it's supposed to be totally consensual the writer does a rly shitty job of establishing that is all im saying
― rhyme heals all goons (m bison), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 19:54 (ten years ago) link
in what context can any piece of culture ever successfully resist the complete + total annihilating vision of the patriarchy? i guess we can locate some pockets of resistance but probably not playing over the soundsystem of department stores over the shopping holiday season. perfect opportunity to drill the values + mores of rape culture into consumer sheep brains.
― Mordy , Tuesday, 24 December 2013 19:56 (ten years ago) link
A+
― signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 19:57 (ten years ago) link
otoh the female is not even given voice to question that "the night time is the right time to rock the night away" -- her consent is beyond assumed
― signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 19:58 (ten years ago) link
the fuck yall talking about
― rhyme heals all goons (m bison), Tuesday, 24 December 2013 19:59 (ten years ago) link