Bill Evans: Classic or Dud?

I just remembered back in college when I talked shit about how Bill Evans was unswinging to a jazzbo friend, he was like "Nah, that's not the point. You gotta listen to Bill Evans alone in your room with the lights off." OTM.

― i wish i had a skateboard i could skate away on (Hurting 2),

I think that sense of space is why some players especially Miles Davis liked to play with Bill Evans. He stayed the heck out of the way when we they were soloing but the minimal comp he would be doing would often be quite fitting. It gave the ensemble a bit of air to their sound and not so dense. It's dropping out chord parts then playing the extensions up an octave is part of it.

I think that's actually a good explanation for why Miles stuck with Herbie so long - he combined Evans-style chord voicings and spare comping with an ability to swing much harder (fwiw Evans' comping isn't very spare when he's soloing himself, for whatever reason. Sometimes it borders on cluttered imo).

Feel bad saying it, but while I like Paul Motian fine on the Bill Evans records I don't really in lots of other contexts.

nah I pretty much agree. The only exception I can think of is when he plays with Paul Bley.

Yes! That trio session with Philly Joe and PC is definitely an overlooked one in the larger scope of Bill Evans.

I like to play Living Time for the people that think Bill is predictable and safe.

amazing performance, love youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcMWov0_TAE&feature=youtu.be&t=3m35s

Wow.

Somehow after all these years I only just recently heard Gary's Theme for the first time, wow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ybTybmIo8w

i gotta get more late period evans

I posted 'Mornin' Glory' on another thread yesterday and it reminded me I don't have the Tokyo Concert from '73 digitized. So, I'm remedying that right now. Fans of the Gomez/Morell band should definitely get into it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXEMBJ9Tcx0

It's probably in my top five favorite Bill Evans records. Right up there with Sunday at the Village Vanguard and Moonbeams.

Apparently, this was out for Record Store Day. I'm so disillusioned with the whole thing that I didn't even bother looking at the list, but I load up Dusty Groove, and there it is very enticingly right up top.

Has anyone heard this stuff yet?

p4k, but a reasonably sussed review. I'm interested: http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/21799-some-other-time-the-lost-session-from-the-black-forest/

I guess "though he may not be an especially famous jazz musician" is based on p4k knowing its audience? Like it just means "he's not one of the names you'd necessarily know if you don't listen to much jazz"?

Presumably. He's not Miles, Trane, Bird or Dizz.

That's a good review, and I have that album sitting at home, but these two sentences perfectly encapsulate why Evans has never done anything for me as a leader:

His first studio date as a leader, in 1956, was just a year after Charlie Parker's death, with bebop very much still au courant; his last, in 1979, the year before his death, was the year Chuck Mangione was nominated for a Grammy for the discofied light jazz funk of "Feels So Good." In both of those years, Evans recorded small-group acoustic jazz albums featuring his standard trio, playing a mix of standards and a few originals.

If you judge someone solely on how many decades they pushed forward the boundaries of what their genre can do then a lot of excellent musicians are going to come up short.

Firstly, a lot of his stuff is just flat out gorgeous - I don't care who wrote it or whether it was part of the zeitgeist - there'll always be a place for someone who can take a cover or a standard and make it their own in such a way that it becomes *the* version.

Secondly - yeah by around 63-64 the bulk of his very best work was behind him and he treaded water a bit in the years leading up to his death, but to say, "well, he was only amazing for 7 or 8 years" is hardly a criticism.

Thirdly he was innovative in his own way, obviously he didn't do anything as jarringly new as Ornette Coleman but he did:
* bring a whole new set of harmonic possibilities to jazz via his classical/impressionist influences
* become the bridge between George Russell and Miles Davis that brought modal jazz to the mainstream, including being the uncredited writer for two Kind of Blue songs
* change the concept of the piano trio, making it much more a union of equals rather than piano plus backing rhythm section

looking forward to hearing this new one ... i thought everybody digs bill evans?
i did think leading w/ the idea that evans isn't famous was weird (he's gotta be among the top 5 most well known jazz pianists ever, right?), but it was a good review otherwise.

I mean he's like 50x as famous as Wynton Kelly, the other pianist on that jazz record everyone owns. And it's just a weirdly apologetic thing to do in a music review. It's hard to imagine them doing the same thing with a minor cult rock figure.

I'd figure Bill Evans is more known now for playing on Kind of Blue now than say Stan Getz who probably sold quite a few more records than Evans in their 1950-60s heyday.

It has been around 50 years since that generation of jazz players was at their peak. Time has passed.

regardless! bill evans is great. I find it amazing that this was recorded in 1958.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nv2GgV34qIg

I dig NYC Is No Lark. That track is haunted sounding. Pretty unique as it was Evans improvising on top of his own take.

I never checked back in RE: Some Other Time. It's fucking amazing, but everybody already knew that.

Getting back into the Kronos album where they do all Evans tunes. It's completely predictable, but nice. Definitely appreciate hearing Eddie Gomez anytime.

Would have been 91 today. The Stork Club show on WFMU's Drummer stream did a 5.5 hour all-Evans show today (https://www.wfmu.org/playlists/shows/95669) including some chat with Peter Keepnews. I've never done a deep dive into his discography so I didn't know until today that Jack DeJohnette was briefly in his trio, 1968.

indeed!

RE: jack's tenure. he actually was only on one album that was released at the time: at montreux. couple years ago, some previously unissued recordings were released for record store day and i'd honestly say that stuff is way better for the dejohnette band. that stuff completely slays; has a way different feel in comparison to other evans trio stuff of the time.

Decided to spend some time with later Evans recordings - so many I've never explored. Right now focusing on the trio with Eddie Gomez and Marty Morrell, roughly 69-74.

This is great:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6T5y9APZuI

Love late period Evans.

It's some of my favorite recorded music ever.

man live, I highly recommend this live album from 1973. On some days, there is nothing that can top it for me. Easily the equal of the `61 Village Vanguard stuff — it's just that nobody cared straight ahead about piano trios anymore by that point.

*about straight ahead

Gomez and Morrell were both fantastic. I think they lived in the shadows of LaFaro and Motian, unfortunately, and also the fact that, as you said, they became prominent when no one cared about straight ahead piano trios.

When it comes to Bill Evans I'm more Riverside Recordings 56-63 till the death! Although from that later trio the live in Italy 1969 - Autumn Leaves album is a really good set, probably should check out some more at some point.

I always have been too, but got curious about the later stuff.

man, been listening to that Tokyo set all afternoon and it is a+++, thanks for the rec Austin

it is really nice

awesome. glad you guys are digging it.

One of my problems with Bill Evans (and I mean in the sense of "my problems" not a problem I have with *him*) is that I tend to really sink into and get lost in his music and that's not always ideal when I have work and family responsibilities. Something about it really sucks me under.

he has that effect at times, yes.

fwiw I've also been dabbling around in The Last Waltz - The Final Recordings at Keystone Korner 1980. Even those are excellent, maybe not breaking new ground for Evans but in no way phoning it in either, full of wonderful energy.

that's mostly second sets, as he was playing two per evening. here's the other half. it's just as good.

Just read this today. It's a really nice interview. Bill Evans is not only a wonderful musician but incredibly eloquent and insighftul about music.
https://jazz.fm/rare-interview-with-bill-evans-recounts-the-story-of-miles-davis-and-kind-of-blue/

the live set set from argentina 1973 made it to streaming recently, so listening today. nothing revelatory of course, but it's the morrell+gomez band, so you know it's good. all the calling cards are here: "re:person i knew", "waltz for debby", "my romance", etc etc. the bobbie gentry tune it's titled after was still in the setlist, so that shows up as well. just ... big sigh. always such a pleasure to hear this band.

But Beautiful is still in my regular rotation (never left since it arrived), so i am super pumped for this. thanking you austin

"two lonely people" is a monster loneliness jam, glad to see it on this set as well

eddie gomez takes a bowed solo on that one.♥

Thanks Austin, enjoying this one!

The last Bill Evans thing that blew my mind was Symbiosis, his 1974 third stream suite with lightly funky grooves and long, snakelike horn lines. Nothing else sounds quite like it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwlG4OciNm4

https://i.imgur.com/H5yFP6l.png

"hey baby, ya like minor sevenths?"

you know what? i will not apologize for being a total cliche but i think it would be in everyone's best interest if we could all just cool the fuck down for a minute. please and thank you.

that being said: FIGHT THE REAL ENEMY.

tl;dr- affinity, co-billed to bill + toots thielsmans from 1979, is wonderful music and highly recommended for the season.

thank you for listening.

it's getting to be that time of year where i start hearing christmas music around and about. again.

i know i've kind of memed myself in the past over it and i would like to make absolutely clear here: i do not like holiday music for reasons that have to do with mental health issues. i am a person living with a mindfuck of a psychiatric disorder so severe that i am ashamed to say by this point, however: yes i am clinically "triggered" by the song santa claus is coming to town.

and when i say "triggered" it means i'll probably physically remove myself from the immediate area without communicating anything. please do not try to stop me. i need to gtfo basically. i'll probably be babbling incoherently the whole way. i'm not proud of this and it's extremely distressing while it's happening. but it's a part of life for me.

and it's only *one* of the "holiday classics" to inspire that sort of involuntary (but necessary) reaction. that's just the heaviest hitter.

(no, i do not want to see christmas music banned or only allowed in certain spaces or whatever else. it's my issue and i need to acknowledge it and cope. just keep going.)

did you know bill evans--

--the guy who inspired me to start using the term "therapy through music"--

--the guy who played so gorgeously, but with such ingenuity, that even miles davis put up with him for a while--

--the initial person who inspired me to seek refuge in a world i'm ill-equipped to understand or deal with by diving into music and following one's own heart as enthusiastically as possible--

--only ever played one christmas tune?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbnF-xyQInc

"santa claus is coming to town" (1964)

despite the overbearing plastic facade of most christmas music not really blending well into bill's idea of music, this one made it into the setlist for a while. he is basically like the musical buddha or dalai lama to me. how did this happen? alas, so be it.

but anyway.

there's two (wrong) cliches about bill evans: 1. he played sad music and 2. by the 70s all he ever played in was the trio, so it all sounds the same.

1 is subjective, so i'll get to it.

2, otoh, is only true if you're listening to live stuff exclusively - and, even then, there's a few things in there that are not just the trio. i mean first of all, the multiple duets albums with eddie gomez. smirk

but seriously: most of his 70s studio albums expand the band or find him playing with a different group entirely. he used the studio in the 70s to do things he either wasn't able to or didn't feel comfortable with live, collaborate, or just try different ideas.

i want to have music on in most situations. when i was employed at an elementary school, i played music in my room as much as possible. other staff relied on work internet for music, so when the district decided to block streaming sites i was already running my own setup. it just happened to be december and i was playing this album and one of the older staff who made me extremely uncomfortable happened into the room and asked how i was able to get christmas music playing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW7ohttsfng

"the other side of midnight (noelle's theme)" (1979)

"sorry. . .what??" was all i could muster.

i guess they heard the combination of sappy chords and a wistful mood and assumed it was holiday music? idk. it was weird. i was flustered but doing my best. subsequently, it was a totally frustrating boomer moment for them- not understanding what a personal digital music player i brought from home is, how it works, and, most importantly, sorry idk how to put it but this isn't even christmas music.

"well it sounds like it could be!"

does it? idk. what does christmas music sound like if you can't hear the words or there aren't any words? if all you have is a title and that's the only identifier that it's christmas music - well, what if it doesn't sound like it otherwise? and what about this case? nothing to do with a holiday theme whatsoever, and yet.

i don't know. all i know is that similar things have happened with affinity on more than one occasion.* recorded in new york city in the fall of 1978 with toots thielsmans and larry schneider sitting in with the working trio of the time, it is a damned gorgeous album. sometimes bill plays this fender rhodes run through a very bubbly phaser and he duets with toots' heavily reverbed harmonica; it's easy to love i suppose. "tomato kiss" is a bit of an outlier, but otherwise they just cool tf down and play some seriously mellow music, with some seriously good vibes. heck, they even do a harmonica rendition of "blue in green."

it helps me.

can't recommend it enough. play it year round, but fool yourself into thinking you're a normal person who likes "christmas music" by listening to it in december.👍🏻

*this has also happened once with björk's vespertine

Found this buried in a 'to-read' list and damn it's good: Steve Silberman writing about his obsession with 'Nardis' https://www.thebeliever.net/broken-time/

A mild warning that it Leans pretty heavily into the 'tragedy of Bill' narrative*, including a pretty graphic description of his death (*pretty hard not to if you're going to tell his story, I guess).

read this on the train today and really enjoyed it, thanks for sharing, also made me miss The Believer in a big way

https://i.imgur.com/GqmEUZ5.jpeg