Sea Devils And Die: GeroniMoffat's Doctor Who In The 2010s

saw this in an absolutely sold out packed theater in SF at noon, great fun, I thought it was all it could have been and then some. Theater got a great Strax intro where he told people to turn their phones off and talked about popcorn screaming as it is eaten, plus a nice tennant/smith pair up describing 3d with barbs about chins and wrinkly old lines. Special itself was wonderful. But, who was the scientist girl? who was her sister supposed to have been? where did she get the scarf? I thought at the end perhaps from Baker's Doctor, but...

Scientist girl was Kate Lethbridge-Stewart's daughter. Sister was plot angst. She probably made the scarf herself because she is a Doctor groupie.

I enjoyed that well enough tho I was a little let down by Hurt's part - like I felt I had been set up for a warped, bitter and near-murderous doctor/anti-doctor, then got a likeable chatty old cove along for the romp. Ditto the save-the-children Gallifrey stuff - much more interested in the Time Lords as dreadful dalek-level shits, get a bit of weight behind the 'push the button' billie-bomb question.

also, there seems to be an awfully big gulf between 'name of the doctor' and this. how come clara doesn't remember Hurt? what happened after that?

Clara never met that Doctor, as established at the end of The Name of the Doctor. Also, her memories of the time she spent as Clara fragments were hazy.

I thought the beginning of the episode was excellent rompish nu-Who fun, especially the Doctor trash talking to a rabbit. And the thirteen-Doctor resolution was terrific, which was great seeing as the resolutions are usually the worst bit of any episode. It did sag quite a bit in the middle though, there was rather too much survivor guilt really, could have done with more tension given how high the stakes actually were.

The very beginning, with the original opening credits and the school, was an excellent touch, also yes Capaldi yes Tom Baker.

I'm not exactly clear on what was supposed to have happened between the Doctor arriving on Trenzalore and the beginning of this episode, though.

Scarf girl is potentially a really good recurring character, hope she comes back.

seems like a likely future companion, if they want to move away from the sexiness with Capaldi and go more toward 'older fatherly figure' and 'normal kid' rather than 'supple 20 yr old sexpot'.

Quite a nice touch that Smith kept blaming Tennant for all the sexiness, there hasn't been much of that with his Doctor at all.

Odysseus Doctor is going to have a different feel from what we've had for a while, he's not just going to be ambling about getting into trouble. Somewhat wise for a show that's lacked direction in the last couple of years. That said, every time nu-Who has done Timelords they've been kind of terrible, maybe they always have been.

lol the rabbit bit was v funny

Five(ish) Doctors a total treat.

just realised the companion face that breaks in at the end of Moffatt's nightmare must be Matthew Waterhouse

Does he write NO MORE in English on a wall in Arcadia? If so why? I thought Gallifreyan looked very different.

He being the Doctor.

relationship between Kate and Osgood certainly looks a bit overfamiliar for boss & subordinate. &it does sound like Mum, Mum at the beginning of the show.

I missed the beginning image of the show when I watched it yesterday, currently watching the BBC3 repeat. Yeah very nice touch having the yard gate then the school at the beginning though I thought the 2 were pretty separate/distant in 1963.

It was translated for you by the TARDIS parked nearby

It's a sign pointing to Foreman's, not the gate. They're moderately close in 1988, walking distance anyway.

and thinking "man I hope Adam went to the cinema for this, even his shrivelled heart couldn't have resisted this much joy and delight":

apologise to have underestimated you, dude.

― ͼѾͽ (sic), Monday, 25 November 2013 00:03 (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

<3

every time nu-Who has done Timelords they've been kind of terrible, maybe they always have been.

― Matt DC, Monday, 25 November 2013 04:36 (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

they arguably slashed the show's viewership in the '80s (along with other factors)

Just re-watched the Ozwhat and Kate intro, geekette sez something like, "Sorry, it's your personal phone, but I recognized the ringtone" which sounds more formal boss-subordinate than child-parent to me.

planning to rewatch this afternoon

I kind of forgot about the whole "ma'am"/"mum" thing so I retract the definitive statement re: glasses sidekick being Kate's daughter. I still think it's possible, though.

The BBC subtitles have her saying Ma'am. Also, when Osgood finds Lethbridge-Stewart alive and covered in Zygon goop she calls her Kate - which seems an unlikely thing for a daughter to do.

I liked a lot about this but re: woof's post, the "what about the children" slo-mo maypole dancing or whatever was laughably bad.

when glasses realized that the Zygons were hiding under the sheets, it was so, so good

Just re-watched the Ozwhat and Kate intro, geekette sez something like, "Sorry, it's your personal phone, but I recognized the ringtone" which sounds more formal boss-subordinate than child-parent to me.

Yeah, and in a later scene where Oswald finds Stewart all covered in Zygon goo, she calls her "Kate", not "mum". (Presumably, assuming she's not her daughter, the direness of the situation makes her drop the formalities; if she were her daughter, that'd be an odd time to switch from "mum" to her proper name.)

(xpost with Treefell, ha!)

the ma'am/mum discussion was had on skyfall as well, it's ma'am. there were some fanservice winks that i groaned at but many more i ate up gleefully, no idea if how that ratio holds for ppl that got the surely many more fanservice winks that sailed over my head. thought the way they worked in billie piper was alright (and i'm someone who looks at the rose stuff from afar w/ horror, it's definitely a huge impediment on me exploring the tennant era any further than the couple of episodes that i have). got a bit fanfiction at times but not as much as you might've feared. heavy xmas carol aspect to it and i could imagine some version of the doctor that worked as touched by an angel on the highway to heaven, the doctor using time travel to play this was yr life week after week. if this show had somehow been an american show for fifty years, occasionally changing it's nature and guise, i guarantee one of them would've been evangelical self improvement oprah pablum. matt smith really strong in this i thought, will be very sad to see him go. at the same time got such a charge out of seeing capaldi's lunatic eyes, do hope that means his doctor isn't neutered.

wondering what type of treaty the brits worked out w/ the zygons - did they give them australia? allow them to hang around and do whatever as long as they looked like human and then perhaps used prisoners as the living template?

Sentenced to ILX

p. sure the government would be chilled about letting Zygons take over the general populace provided they all agreed to vote Tory at the next election and MPs were exempt

kardashians iirc

http://24.media.tumblr.com/9545d9d59931f278aec4e0ee922af0e1/tumblr_mwsj1mCoMr1qbypg1o1_400.gif

^ hahaha. I genuinely loved Rusty's bit on Five(ish) Doctors.

^and the exposure of John Barrowman's secret life

Missed the cast list, but I think Barrowman's secret wife was played by the lass who played Davison's daughter in At Home With The Braithwaites.

I never liked Colin Baker as the Doctor one bit, but he was great in the Five(ish) Doctors ("you really are from another planet, aren't you?").

Enjoyed DotD, but much like the rest of the episode, Tom Baker's presence didn't make any sense, but it reminded me a bit of Hartnell's own fragile turn in The Three Doctors. Quite moving.
Yeah, such a shame Ecclestone didn't do this. That would've been great, miserable sod. He's had a 'no Dr Who questions' clause added into his part in the publicity junkets for Thor 2 :(

Has Davison done any writing for canonical Who? Because on the basis of "Five(ish)," I think he'd be great at a one-off, plus he'd be able to write himself, Colin Baker, and/or McCoy into it.

eccleston's reaction to who is just bizarre and weird. I understand he didn't like something about someone; presumably all of tose people are long gone by now. if he didn't like the fan culture of the show, wtf did he think he was signing up for? really just seems like a bastard in retrospect and it's hard for me to enjoy his season now when I watch it.

It stings a little because I'm a huge fan of his portrayal of The Doctor. The least he could have done was be in the regeneration scene at the end. It's not even the same thing as when Nimoy got fed up with the Star Trek nerds, the show was already this big iconic cross-media thing with a fandom by the time 2005 came around.

Oh well, Capaldi is a huge fan and I have a feeling he'll be the best Nu-Who Doctor yet (especially if someone can talk Moffat into stepping down as the showrunner).

the show was already this big iconic cross-media thing with a fandom by the time 2005 came around.

You, er, remember this period rather differently than I do.

on one hand, i get that he's just an actor, that he's worried about the doctor who association damaging his future work, that he's probably a massive introvert etc etc. on the other, by creating this enormous eccleston shaped hole right across the 50th anniversary he's undoubtedly made things harder for himself. i'm convinced he'll regret this in a few years.

I can't help thinking that there might be other people who may in some slight way share the responsibilty for that hole - of course there's no way to know really who they are.

Yeah, it's weird. I would sorta understand if he was like, "playing the Doctor was a mistake, I don't want to be associated with this sort of pop culture icon, and I don't like the geeky fans". But after that, he's had major roles in movies based on G.I. Joe, The Dark Is Rising, and Thor, so either he's a masochist, or he has no problem with geekish pop culture. And if he's worried the specific association with the Doctor could damage his career, well, I don't think he should be; if you would ask the fans of the current show which actor they think of when they think of Doctor, I think most would say Tennant (or Smith), not Eccleston.

(xpost)

xp yeah. i also wonder whether his refusal to discuss doctor who in the thor interviews is more that he's simply not allowed to (although i don't know the facts here).

also, this from last year: http://www.blastr.com/2012/08/matt_smith_really_really.php

He (Christopher Eccleston) also spoke with real warmth and enthusiasm about the character of the Doctor and what a real joy of a character it is to play. In response to a question about whether he felt he'd taken the character as far as he could he (very tellingly) said he felt that one series isn't enough to get under the skin of the character and that if he'd had two or three series he'd have developed the role considerably. He said that if you looked at the other Doctors (with the exception of Tom Baker) you can see them working out how to play the character through their first series because it's such a complex and challenging role. He said several times that there was more for him to do with the character.

Yeah, I remember fans in Other Places talking about the interview and Chris' imminent return to the fold on the strength of his words. I get the impression that he doesn't cope well with big personality producers - the issue behind him leaving was either to do with Rusty or Julie Gardner and about how they treated people who the considered beneath them. All the implication this time is that he got quite far negotiating being in the special but something personal happened with someone (presumably Moffatt) and that's why he didn't want to be part of it.

cant wait for the moffat era book to be written

seriously, every unanswered question i have about the doctor atm concerns all the recent behind-the-scenes guff

potentially huge xmas spoilers (addresses recent discussion itt but can't say how obv): http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/doctor-who-christmas-spoilers-matt-2847509

I'm not gonna read that, but my theory for the Christmas special is that, since Smith was revealed to be 12th and not the 11th incarnation, he can't regenerate anymore. So the "body" of the Doctor seen in "The Name of the Doctor" really is Smith's body; he actually dies in the Christmas special, leaving his body behind on Trenzalore. This would explain why, when Clara jumped inside the "body", she was only shown helping the Doctors up until Smith, but not any Doctor after him. The "body" didn't contain any information on future Doctors because it wasn't some future Doctor's body, it was Smith's. The Capaldi Doctor then comes into existence via some timey wimey magic, not through a regeneration. This would also mean that the ending of "The Day of the Doctor" is not contradictory anymore: the Doctor does really die on Trenzalore, but the museum curator also is a retired Doctor from the distant future. The dead Doctor and the curator Doctor are simply two different persons.

32 days until i stab myself to death with a ballpoint pen

what i'd love is for capaldi to appear and go 'fuck it, let's find a haunted house'

Tuomas' theory is kind of unlikely, as it still being The Doctor is all the show has to hang its hat on in that respect. Smith is supposedly 13 anyway if "10.5" counts, which apparently Moffatt does.

It's obvious though, isn't it? If Gallifrey still exists then the Matrix still exists and if the Matrix still exists then the Doctor can be given more lives by the High Chancellor as in the Five Doctors, job done, bosh.

I'm looking forward to the Doctor keeping the painting Gallifrey Falls/No More in his Fortress of Solitude and little Kryptonians coming out of it to help him in his adventures. Maybe sometimes he could put himself in the painting and have adventures on the surface of Arcadia, maybe fight soem baddies. Oh wait, that's the Bottle City of Kandor.