Sea Devils And Die: GeroniMoffat's Doctor Who In The 2010s

Absolutely

Hmmm, it left me a little bit cold. Final surprise appearance blew me away though :D

I thought that was pretty good NuWho, an amalgam of catchphrases, pratfalls, emo and exposition. I did like that John Hurt seems to be as sick of the antics as some of the rest of us. I'm not sure I am that keen on the plot that seems to be planned but hey-ho.

Am I the only one wondering what actually happened with the Zygons? That whole plot was just left hanging.

By Christ this BBC3 thing is painful.

The tiny Capaldi cameo was nice. Really, really wish they'd been able to get Eccleston back, though.

Wasn't expecting Baker, and we both went "WHOA" when Capaldi turned up briefly too. Though we were getting a proper Eccleston cameo at the end of Hurt's regeneration, but you can't have everything.

The Hurt regeneration wasn't quite long enough to resolve the face he was turning into, was it?

I will look at sadder places on the interwebs and see if someone has captured it.

that were rub

We were pretty sure it was Eccleston's face.

yeah pretty well done I thought.
enjoyed that, do wonder if it was any better in 3d in the cinema but good show pretty genuinely touching. Interesting story and cameos.
Hurt was a decent doctor so possibly a shame he didn't get to be one for longer.

this show now is like Bobby Ewing stepping out of the shower once a year

Re: Baker - was that not leaked at all? I guess everyone is in as much mortal fear of losing their job as I am! Have to admit, as soon as we had the picture-locked version in at work, I scrubbed to the end to see if any of the old dudes popped up...

And, yeah, it's McGann>Hurt>Eccles.

Yeah, it was definitely heading towards Eccleston when it cut. I guess the very start of Eccleston's first episodes shows him reacting to his new features, but still...

Baker leaked it himself, the mad old duffer!

Obviously it's crying out for Ecclestone.

Yeah, I've nothing against John Hurt, but I think Ecclestone could've played that part better, and it would've tied nicely to the survivor guilt he was feeling in the beginning of season 1. I wonder if they asked him and he refused?

But not counting that, this was tremendously good! Everyone did a fine job, there was nice mixture of Serious Stuff and adventure. Obviously the plot had a few holes as tends to be the case with big Who stories, but at least this time the Timey Wimey paradoxes weren't big enough to stop me from enjoying the plot.

Outside the plot, characterization in this episode was very good, the inter-Doctor jabs thrown by the three were funny, and here was even some time left for minor character moments (I loved the scientist girl with the glasses). Billie Piper being there felt pretty extraneous, again it would've made more sense if Ecclestone had been there instead of Hurt. But I think they did the best they good with what they had. And the cameo in the end was a nice touch, obviously. It managed to surprise me, though I guess something like that was to expected.

(Whoa, loads of xposts while I was writing that!)

as an episode of NuWho, 7/10 with bonus points for cameos and callbacks, but as the Anniversary Special that the world's tuned into bcuz "Hey it's this massive global institution that's lasted half a century!", well it didn't really deliver. Plot with Zygons could've been any episode, use of Billie Piper not as Rose Tyler was utterly gratuitous. Would've preferred it if McGann had been used / Eccleston had been persuadable

The Hurt regeneration wasn't quite long enough to resolve the face he was turning into, was it?

I don't think so, but the comment he made about his ears (something like "I hope they won't so as noticeable") made it pretty obvious he would morph into Ecclestone. Wasn't one of the first things Ecclestone said in his first episode a comment on his ears? That was nice touch in this one.

Really confused cos apparently they aren't showing it in Atlanta until Monday.

xpost to self Should clarify that I do not want Rose Tyler back in this, but Billie Piper in this was just eh

BUT WHAT HAPPENED TO THE ZYGONS? Seriously, they stop the warhead, it's revealed the science girl knows which is human and which is the Zygon, the Hurt Doctor disappears... Then what? Two hours later, the memory thing wears off. At which point do Emo and Wacky go to where Hurt is?

This BBC3 thing is appalling. Who the fuck decided that what this needed was a ropey link-up to One Direction?

Anyway, a couple of points/open questions on how this episode relates to the larger Who plot:

* If we take the cameo at the end of this literally and not just as a cute gag, it would mean that the Doctor doesn't die on Trenzalore, and the tomb we saw in "The Name of the Doctor" is a red herring somehow, right? I guess this might be dealt with in future episodes.

* Does this mean the events of "The End of Time" are now changed? My memory of it is a bit fuzzy, but IIRC correctly the fate of the Time Lords as shown in that episode doesn't quite jibe with what happened in this one. I think that's the biggest paradox/plot hole caused by this episode: if the events of "The End of Time" were changed, then Ten wouldn't have needed to die and morph into Eleven.

Wait, the BBC3 thing just turned epic, the 1Direction link up in La has turned into. a Radiophonic Workshop tribute - the satellite delay in the broadcast has hit, then passed through the monitor displaying the footage at both ends and re-delayed forming a giant feedback/delay loop repeating the same phrases over and over again.

If we take the cameo at the end of this literally and not just as a cute gag, it would mean that the Doctor doesn't die on Trenzalore, and the tomb we saw in "The Name of the Doctor" is a red herring somehow, right? I guess this might be dealt with in future episodes.

Directly after the UK broadcast, there was a trailer for the Christmas episode, which would appear to be set on Trenzalore.

Also, no Timothy Dalton in this episode. Were we to assume the Time Lord boss in this episode was Rassilon, just played by someone else, or was he some other dude altogether?

BUT WHAT HAPPENED TO THE ZYGONS?

I don't think the Zygon plot needed to be addressed any further... Really, they were the McGuffin of this story, an excuse to get the three Doctors together, and the way Zygon conflict was solved was clever enough for me; obviously that plot wasn't fully resolved, but it didn't feel like it was totally left hanging either.

It's not resolved at all though. Kate L-S doesn't want to kill them? They stop wanting to the world? Do they just decide to go and live in a commune in Croydon and knit their own hummus?

"to take over the world"

I mostly enjoyed that! loool @ "sandshoes & grandpa"

squee'd at the brief Capaldi moment & the excellent cameo at the end

They have signed a completely watertight nonsense treaty!

If we take the cameo at the end of this literally.... It is someone who may or may not be a future Doctor basically standing around saying "I may or may not be a future Doctor, you know"

looootta moffaty timey wimey bullshit though. kinda had to choke that down to stay on board

Funny, Eccleston not taking part in the anniversary celebration and I'm just channel surfing and find that he's narrating a documentary on D.H. Lawrence on BBC2, presumably pure coincidence.

Enjoyed what I saw earlier anyway. & this is a very interesting thing on the genesis of Sons & Lovers.

Just watched Davison's Five(ish) Doctors reboot thing on the red button, a perfectly entertaining way to spend half an hour. Won't spoiler, but I did laugh at Rusty's cameo.

Yeah. I assume the times don't line up for a direct comparison, but I went out to see Thor: The Dark World earlier (partially shot a stone's throw from the Tower) with Ecclestone hissing and scenery chewing and it can't have been a worse gig on offer here.

(Also I should maybe clarify that I meant Ecclestone instead of Tennant (or along with, I actually didn't mind Tennant that much here))

Also! RP Billie Piper!

as an episode of NuWho, 7/10 with bonus points for cameos and callbacks, but as the Anniversary Special that the world's tuned into bcuz "Hey it's this massive global institution that's lasted half a century!", well it didn't really deliver. Plot with Zygons could've been any episode, use of Billie Piper not as Rose Tyler was utterly gratuitous. Would've preferred it if McGann had been used / Eccleston had been persuadable

― Windsor Davies, Sunday, 24 November 2013 08:22 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

100 agree. my expectations were already low after this year's string of toss, but too much of this dragged on like a wet weekend, apart from the occasional moment of fanwank delight and genuinely funny line.

also, with capaldi enigmatically saying 'THIRTEEEEEEN' and hurt being acknowledged as ~the~ ~doctor~, does that mean smith is #12 now?

Isn't that one of the ornate time lords saying thirteen?

it sounded awfully like capaldi to me, but i'd have to go back to be sure tbh

It was Capaldi.

A fine line between "we're putting this in twice so it doesn't seen so egregious the second time" (taking 400 years to solve something) and "fuck it, the joke seemed to work okay the first time, let's have it on again" (mistaking Queen Elizabeth for a Zygon).

I'm impressed that they did totally sell to me that they'd actually end with the three of then taking collective responsibility - I wonder if that might at all be a reason for the odd show time (10 to till 10 past).

Technically the circular firing squad shouldn't work in 3D, but I can totally see the Daleks setting up space artillery at all points of the space compass..

One more rewrite might have helped: what in the bollocks is "This 3D painting of Gallifrey is Queen Elizabeth's Credentials about?"

why would the daleks not have expected three doctors at once? what with him having a time machine and having done the several doctor thing previously? that was not 'brilliant', david tennant at approx. 1.03, that was bloody silly.

although i'm sure sic stands ready to disabuse me

fyi i rewatched End of Time this afternoon

bcz i still love tennant I CANT HELP IT

Oh I watched the first part of that before leaving for concert call. Donna is still great obv.

BTW thank GOD that they had Billie Piper do something besides Rose

getting characters to repeat lines that have been said in earlier shows is brilliant, witty writing and you shd definitely do it as often as possible

Rose finally grew into her new teeth <3

xxpost Would've been better if they'd left well enough alone though, if it comes to a choice between Billie Piper not playing Rose and someone else not playing Rose then I know which I'd choose. Fuck including her out of some sense that she is still integral to the fabric of NuWho, that shit should've died with 10

bit harsh

windsor davies otm again. i don't understand why she was there, apart from nu-who hat tip.