rolling American football death spiral thread

It's nice that we want to tell these people what's best for them and in some respects we are right. But the fact that not a single NFL'er has retired over this is telling. These people want to play, and even most former players, those who played under much worse safety rules and were paid much less, still say they'd do it again. The issue of parents not letting their kids play is a real concern though, but I'd reckon we won't see the effects of that for 20 years.

i played all 4 years in college (and 8 years before that) and I have no problems. its pretty rare. There's risks in everything in life. I think the benefits of football outweigh any negatives.

xpost with frogs

I live in the South. I can assure you there will be absolutely NO shortage of players coming out of this area.

I missed this from last year, but Jim McMahon has early-stage dementia too.
http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/8429574/former-chicago-bears-qb-jim-mcmahon-says-do-would-play-baseball

since it appears the Republican and Democratic parties will not die in my lifetime, i'd settle for the NFL.

(college football as a cash cow, even better)

http://espn.go.com/high-school/football/story/_/id/9966789/charles-youvella-arizona-high-school-football-player-dies-brain-injury-suffered-game

i played all 4 years in college (and 8 years before that) and I have no problems. its pretty rare. There's risks in everything in life. I think the benefits of football outweigh any negatives.

― One Way Ticket on the 1277 Express (Bill Magill), Thursday, November 7, 2013 8:37 AM (5 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

xpost with frogs

I live in the South. I can assure you there will be absolutely NO shortage of players coming out of this area.

― One Way Ticket on the 1277 Express (Bill Magill), Thursday, November 7, 2013 8:38 AM (5 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i think absolutely the negatives outweigh the benefits! i mean tony dorsett, an all time great running back...i wonder if he'd trade in his NFL career for full health and a long, lucid life. BUT as i said before i don't think the game is going anywhere. people still smoke and everyone knows it's likely to kill you or at minimum be a miserable habit later in life.

he probably wouldn't tbh

There are always going to be people who are willing to hurt themselves to "help their families". It's up to the NFL and the NCAA to protect their employees rather than exploit them. So far ... not doing so well.

I know "NCAA employees" is not the right way to describe this relationship, although it should be.

I mean Deadspin has that interview series, "would you do it again?" or something like that, and they interview dudes who were a lot less famous or well-off than Dorsett. And they pretty much all say, "I wouldn't trade it for anything"

if it goes downhill the way boxing has since the '70s, it will be from external pressures, not reluctant potential players.

Unless an MMA-analogue comes along I don't see the NFL getting any less popular anytime soon.

yeah probably, but i think despite a lot of players proclaiming zero regrets, i'm not sure how true those proclamations actually are. and if they'd been presented with the choice ahead of time of playing the game + the attendant health issues VS not playing, i wonder how many would have gone ahead and done it.

i'm sure we'll see a lot of guys who would have otherwise played who will decide to not do it, but there will also be plenty of people to take their place.

right. and inevitably it'll led to a dilution of the talent pool - I can see the Calvin Johnson types playing basketball instead. when the on-field product sucks (as it kinda has this year!) I can see the game losing popularity.

NFL isn't gonna die lol if anything it'll just get MORE violent and murderous

I look forward to the culling of the jock herds in this manner

pretty soon we'll have wide receivers and tight ends just going around killing people willy nilly

Are there any studies about CTE in rugby, aussie rules, CFL, etc.?

i don't know this, but i can't see why it would be any more of an issue in aussie rules or tennis or bar billiards. aussie rules is not that kind of cumulative head knocks game.

with rugby there's less of a problem than nfl (both intuitively because of nature of the game and in terms of actual evidence in the rugby alumni population) but there are a few cases yes.

definitely much fewer studies done in rugby though

been reading them because i have student athletes doing reports on them for my science class

If League of Denial is right about microconcussions (aka the accumulation of minor head trauma from regular, normal hits), it could apply to any contact sport. Football is the worst of course because it's so fast and so repetitive.

i think w/football the players have a false sense of security bc of the helmets. they hit hard with the helmets along the line, and they're protected on the outside of the skull but the inside doesn't have that benefit. rugby players get knocked on the head too but they'd be less likely to do it all game long. i think CTE in hockey has been a thing though?

Have each football teams play 3 times a week and see if that helps. And then the NFL would make more money. Win win.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/page/popwarner/pop-warner-youth-football-participation-drops-nfl-concussion-crisis-seen-causal-factor

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/10/americas-newest-culture-war-football

poor football ;_;

so are countless comment pundits correct? would taking the helmets away from players solve this issue?

it might change certain behavior helpfully, probably mostly for linemen, but you'd be left with some gruesome accidental contact inherent to large fast people running into each other/the ground

we wouldn't have to wonder if we'll ever see a player die during a televised game for much longer

You're not going to change 14+ years of ingrained behavior (any given NFL player has been playing tackle with pads and helmets since he was eight or nine years old) overnight by taking away helmets. Nor are you going to reverse the existence of 320-pound men who can run a 4.6 40 - they didn't exist when football was played with padded leather helmets.

rugby

seems like it wd be easier if u just banned football

u can't ban the nfl; it's a non-profit

so are countless comment pundits correct? would taking the helmets away from players solve this issue?

― Mordy , Monday, December 2, 2013 8:18 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

No, its a stupid idea

If the experts cited by Frontline were really onto something, he says, "society would look like Night of the Living Dead."

welllllll

because, as we know, the vast majority of Americans have played in the NFL

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10366514/former-detroit-lions-rb-jahvid-best-suing-nfl-helmet-maker

Not sure if this is going to become anything, but the fact that a 24 year old is suing the NFL over concussions is pretty significant

"society would look like Night of the Living Dead."

I hate to tell you, but...

"would taking the helmets away from players solve this issue?"

I don't think so, the move to helmets and pads really starts as there was quite a few deaths back in the dawn of the sport at the turn of the last century. Teddy Roosevelt being one of the people that led for changes in the game to make it less violent and deadly.

Yet Rugby players don't have this problem in anything the numbers American football players do

They may not have the forward pass but they do have the forward kick in open play

The nature of the scrum and how the ball moves in rugby is pretty different than American football where the game starts from a set every play with active motion behind the line and having the forward pass. From that you don't get as many full speed blind side hits like you do in American football.

NFL changing the rules to emphasize the pass I think has had unintended consequences on these blind side hits, as clubs study each others plays and there are tons of times defensive players look at a setup and know exactly where the ball might go, as so much of modern passing are timing patterns where the QB is just throwing to a certain spot the field. They just basically wait like an assassin for the ball and receiver to get to that point and just totally unload on the offensive player. Those kind of "helmet to helmet" hits are where the NFL football have been trying to make the changes and on plays where the player gets blind sided like getting hit by a truck.

NFL players are just athletic freaks, the range of size and speed of some of these guys at this point is pretty staggering. Even the average college offensive line will have five guys averaging 300 pounds each. Back in the 80s when the Fridge played, he was huge, now he would be just a bit over average and some of these huge men are amazingly fast for their size.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/01/health/jenkins-nfl/index.html?c=homepage-t

Illegalize zone defenses. Massive blow up hits don't happen in man to man

Did Javid best sue cal and the PAC-12 too? The guy was basically a vegetable before he got to the League due to concussions.

yeah the cal play when he got injured was one of the roughest things i've watched

i was watching some episodes of friday night tykes + it's pretty horrifying and I no longer believe organized tackle football should be legal, at least in that age bracket

http://www.theonion.com/articles/totally-irresponsible-parents-remember-to-drop-son,34610/

re: Rugby, I read something that suggested concussions have been under-diagnosed.