The ILC Favourite Characters Of All Time

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Duh! It's pre-Crisis, nothing's canon, it all got rewritten

occasional mongrel (kit brash), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 12:07 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, but the Superman that went into Crisis had a backstory and this wasn't it. So it was never canon, for what it's worth (kill me now).

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 13:10 (seventeen years ago) link

the entire point of the story was that it was a meta homage to Weisinger/Schwartz era: all Elastic Lad/Insect Queen kinda stuff that was by no means emphasized in the immediate pre-Crisis era.

sissy boy that i am, I wept while re-reading the story in the mid-90s.

veronica moser (veronica moser), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 13:29 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh man the Superman TAS episode on Bizarro was FANTASTIC.

THIS IS MY CONTRIBUTION TO DC DISCUSSION.

Jessie the Monster (scarymonsterrr), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 15:11 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah 'zactly - there really was no canon by the standard of the times - the WGBS Supes had overwritten the Weisinger Supes, like the Weisinger Supes had overwritten the commie-busting Supes, etc. Siegel over-writing his own OG origin with Superboy, case in point.

Plus it was specifically written immediately pre-Crisis so that it would be written out the next month obv.

("the times" - it actually happens MUCH MORE these days but they think there's such a thing as canon now!)

occasional mongrel (kit brash), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 20:31 (seventeen years ago) link

15(tie). Hopey Glass

(137 points)

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/9923/hopey.gif

Dark-haired, bitchy, full of herself and utterly
magnetic – was Hopey an older version of Lucy?
(Justyn)

I had an only half-joking crush on Hopey Glass in Love&Rockets — despite my Grate Critic's Brane being perfectly aware that she is nothing if not a Comicbook- Device-by-Which-to-Produce-Pash-in-the- Punky-Fanboy — which I then managed to transfer into a non-joking crush on an extremely Hopey-like friend, with DISASTROUS consequences. crushes on the Hopey-like in Real Life: DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME KIDS!! THEY ARE ALL AS MAD AS MAD JACK McMAD!! (mark s)

Greatest moment: "Hay's for horses, ass-bite!" (Douglas Wolk)

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 20 October 2006 10:33 (seventeen years ago) link

15(tie). Judge Dredd (2000ad)

(137 points)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0e/Judge_dredd.png

The flagship character for the galaxy's greatest comic, a not entirely subtle parody of the Thatcherite police state that survived that and a lot else over the last 30 years. I've never been that fond of the big epics, but the little done-in-ones where he ends up arrseting everyone are fantastic.

The greatest comment ever on the fascist overtones of the fantasy of the costumed hero. (Douglas Wolk)

Like Batman, Dredd is good because of his world, not himself (Pete Baran)

Greatest moment: Too many to count. Dredd's worst day under John
Wagner is better than 80% of other comics.
(Vic Fluro)

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 20 October 2006 10:54 (seventeen years ago) link

Bah, poxy HTML skills.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 20 October 2006 10:55 (seventeen years ago) link

What these two characters have in common is that they and their worlds have aged in something close to real time - for an action comic with a central hero this is REALLY REALLY unusual (Dredd, Prince Valiant and...?). I think Dredd may be more faithful to this than Love and Rockets actually.

Tom (Groke), Friday, 20 October 2006 11:57 (seventeen years ago) link

What, Dredd is in his fifties now?

Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 20 October 2006 12:28 (seventeen years ago) link

He's between 60 and 70 I think. He's had several bits replaced too (his eyes have been bionic since 1985)

Obviously future technology means that the ageing in real time is a bit of a cheat - active lifespan can be as long as the writers need it to be - but definitely Dredd's role in the stories has shifted: he's more of a planner than an action man, and he's gone from being the best Judge of an upcoming generation to a living legend with a mildly anti-system aura - his repeated refusal to become Chief Judge, for instance. There's a younger Judge Dredd running around too, of course - the second Rico (I think).

I don't think Wagner planned any of this at all, of course, but because he's been the main scripter for so long he's been able to steer the ship in mostly sensible directions, and the result is a strip and character of surprising depth when taken as a 30-year ongoing whole! (Probably closer to some of the European single character strips, like Tuomas' favourite Corto Maltese!)

Tom (Groke), Friday, 20 October 2006 12:36 (seventeen years ago) link

From Wikipedia:

"As the strip occurs in real time, Dredd is currently more than sixty years old. However, his vitality is explained in the context of the stories with allusions to rejuvenation treatments. Recently, characters in the comic have mentioned that Dredd is not as young and fit as he used to be.

Joe is nicknamed "Old Stoneyface", a name he apparently acquired while still a cadet. More recently, he has become known as the "Old Man"; though not confirmed, Joe is likely the oldest Judge still on active street duty."

Tom (Groke), Friday, 20 October 2006 12:40 (seventeen years ago) link

Hmm, Corto Maltese is actually the only European comic character who did age - though it's a bit different, because the stories aren't in chronological order, and he never gets that old (according to another comic by Pratt he disappears during the Spanish Civil War, but the actual Corto stories never go beyond the 1920s). Monsieur Jean by Dupuy and Berberian does seem to age with time too, it's interesting to see if they're going to continue the trend.

The idea of a comic book character who ages through the years is very interesting, but it's better fitted for character who have their own monthly comic books, which isn't the case with most European or indie comics. It's a pity so few superhero/action comic publishers have even tried the idea.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 20 October 2006 12:51 (seventeen years ago) link

I think with Dredd it happened almost by accident - I'm sure nobody thought he'd last 30 years. It's only become a selling point in the last 10 years or so - when I was first reading Dredd in the mid-80s there was no stress laid on the 'real time' element at all. (And of course the comic doesn't take place one week at a time).

Tom (Groke), Friday, 20 October 2006 12:54 (seventeen years ago) link

Not that any does. In fact, I'd think that the largely encapsulated nature of non-cliffhanger comics would make them a better fit for this.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 20 October 2006 12:57 (seventeen years ago) link

Comic where protagonist ages in real time: American Splendor?

Tom (Groke), Friday, 20 October 2006 13:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Jaime's stories are definitely happening in real time, pretty much--Maggie & Hopey are both convincingly 40 or so at this point (Hopey's starting to get some lines in her face, & recently got a new pair of glasses). Here's the definitive Jaime chronology: http://www.zompist.com/loveroc1.html

Note, though, that "Day By Day With Hopey" started in late 2004, ended in the most recent issue, and takes place over the course of a week...

Douglas (Douglas), Friday, 20 October 2006 13:25 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm not sure if I am being nice/nasty to Dredd or Batman there, but I still agree with it (though clearly they are characters of their respective worlds, created by them).

Pete (Pete), Friday, 20 October 2006 15:34 (seventeen years ago) link

Dredd's line in sarcastic humour and occaisonal moral doubts make him more than just a cypher though. Anyway, I'm pleased he beat Superman.

chap who would dare to welcome our new stingray masters (chap), Friday, 20 October 2006 16:05 (seventeen years ago) link

Not that any does

Um, apart from 52, you berk.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 20 October 2006 16:43 (seventeen years ago) link

Aw, Zompist!

Casuistry (Chris P), Friday, 20 October 2006 18:17 (seventeen years ago) link

Maggie also noted her birthday in the New York Times serial this year

occasional mongrel (kit brash), Saturday, 21 October 2006 03:38 (seventeen years ago) link

14. Linus Van Pelt

(154 points)

http://basketbhall.blogsome.com/images/meet_linus_big.gif

Linus's recitation from the Bible in the 1965
Christmas special remains the most moving minute of
television ever. It's hard to know what to add to
that.
(Justyn)

Indeed.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 23 October 2006 10:06 (seventeen years ago) link

By which I mean that like many non-Americans, Peanut's fame is completely mysterious to me. Could anyone give me five words to describe Linus? NB 'piano' is not allowed.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 23 October 2006 10:18 (seventeen years ago) link

*Peanuts'

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 23 October 2006 10:18 (seventeen years ago) link

This non-American discovered Peanuts young, through an uncle's collections. It's been a while, but IIRC the key to Linus is that he's the philosophical, optimistic balance to his dominating, grouchy older sister Lucy and the alternately despairing and unwarrantedly optimistic Charlie Brown. But his contented nature is undercut in the eyes of the readers by the fact that he's the kid who sucks his thumb and carries a security blanket, so how much faith are you going to put in his comforting aphorisms?
Okay, that's more words than you asked for. Pick five you like.

Ray (Ray), Monday, 23 October 2006 10:35 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, I've read Peanuts since I was kid too, but I never found Linus as memorable as Lucy or Snoopy or Charlie Brown. It's been ages since I reread that stuff though.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 23 October 2006 10:56 (seventeen years ago) link

Explaination abouut who or what Linus is = Linus Notes.

Pete (Pete), Monday, 23 October 2006 12:36 (seventeen years ago) link

I've never read Peanuts.

chap who would dare to welcome our new stingray masters (chap), Monday, 23 October 2006 12:46 (seventeen years ago) link

What's that?

(x-post)

Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 23 October 2006 12:49 (seventeen years ago) link

Linus and Lucy were neck and neck in the voting for ages! (Erm this may act as a spoiler for later I guess but come on, you could have guessed she's in it.)

Tom (Groke), Monday, 23 October 2006 13:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Tom you bastard!

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 23 October 2006 13:32 (seventeen years ago) link

Seriously guys! I think the world might end when we hit the end of this.

FINAL DESTINATION 4

Young Fresh Danny D (Dan Perry), Monday, 23 October 2006 14:44 (seventeen years ago) link

I think the thread should end on number 2 and then announce a poll for another countdown, like in arabian nights

Mark Co (Markco), Monday, 23 October 2006 15:13 (seventeen years ago) link

Haha when we get to #2 I will be willing to recieve cash donations to 'lose' the spreadsheet. YOU'LL SEE.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 23 October 2006 15:59 (seventeen years ago) link

Is this the poll we never finished? I've completely lost track...

c('°c) (Leee), Monday, 23 October 2006 16:05 (seventeen years ago) link

13. Charlie Brown (Peanuts)

(157 points)

http://kalimochoweb.iespana.es/charlieb.gif

Charles Schulz once said that he woke up every morning
with an inexplicable feeling of dread. He poured that
feeling into Charlie Brown, a gentle, likable boy who
is, for no obvious reason, scorned by his peers and
plagued by persistent anxiety and loneliness. "I
wonder if I'm dying," he said to himself during a
hospital stay. "I wonder if they'd tell me if I were
dying…Maybe I'm already dead….I wonder if they'd tell
me." There was something strangely abstract and
Kafkaesque about Charlie Brown's troubles: he seemed
to be a decent ball player and a reasonably good
student, but still the 600-to-nothing losses and bad
grades came. Of course, some of Chuck's problems were
more familiar: Surrounded by friends with
all-too-obvious crushes on him (Peppermint Patty,
Marcie, even arguably Lucy), he obsesses over a girl
he can't even bring himself to talk to. At some point
Schulz seemed to back off from this theme, perhaps
feeling he had revealed too much of himself; it's
possible he never intended to show so much in the
first place. But it gave Peanuts more lasting
resonance than (almost) any other comic strip ever
published.
(Justyn Dillingham)

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 06:58 (seventeen years ago) link

"Piano" of course is the other one, Schroeder.

Linus is also, at least in the early years, shockingly competent, preternaturally gifted, and completely unaffected by and possibly unaware of that, which foils off Charlie Brown's obsessions over his mediocrity. But, again, he's also the one who believes in the Great Pumpkin.

Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 07:28 (seventeen years ago) link

Wow, and Lucy still to come.

Ray (Ray), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 07:43 (seventeen years ago) link

Doh! Sorry, Schroeder. I actually kind of liked him.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 08:31 (seventeen years ago) link

Is Schroeder named after some composer? In the Finnish translation he's called "Amadeus".

Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 09:29 (seventeen years ago) link

Chuck shoulda been #1. But I can take the poetry of him being unlucky #13, I guess.

It's the lazy and immoral way to become super hip. (Austin, Still), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 11:09 (seventeen years ago) link

Pig Pen is clearly number one.

Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 11:51 (seventeen years ago) link

Schroeder is obsessed with Beethoven and Liszt; as far as I know he's not named after a composer at all.

All of the Peanuts characters could have swept this poll had we worked together as a team, I think.

Young Fresh Danny D (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 12:50 (seventeen years ago) link

Schroeder is named after someone Schulz vaguely knew; he was in the strip for a few years before his piano-playing abilities were revealed.

Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 24 October 2006 14:19 (seventeen years ago) link

first appearance: 30/5/1951
first piano virtuosity: 24/9/1951

occasional schroeder (kit brash), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 02:33 (seventeen years ago) link

Linus, Lucy and Charlie Brown are three of my favorite comics characters ever. I started making a list for a similar poll somewhere or another and gave up when I couldn't pick between them for my #1.

Adrienne Begley (sparklecock), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 02:57 (seventeen years ago) link

My #2 is of course the blonde girl with a cow head from Hepcats

Adrienne Begley (sparklecock), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 02:57 (seventeen years ago) link

Erica!

she looked more horsey to me though.

occasional horse (kit brash), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 07:40 (seventeen years ago) link

12. Doctor Doom (Fantastic Four etc.)

(159 points)

http://comicsmedia.ign.com/comics/image/article/664/664094/doctor-doom-20051103034219446.jpg

A great villain for the Fantastic Four, a haughty European lord and master that everyone can enjoy foiling. But possibly not as foiled as often as he is cajoled - as Justyn says below, he's not that far from a hero, and his sense of honor is an easier way to get around him than brute force. See particularly his final (or is it?) exit in the Ultimate universe.

Best villain in the Marvel Universe. Because he might not be a villain. (okay, he is.) (Pete Baran)

One of the weird, recurring, barely-buried themes of
superhero comics is that supervillains are not so very
different from the "heroes" who fight them. And it's
not that hard to imagine a slightly humbled Dr Doom
working alongside the Fantastic Four, since most of
the Marvel characters, bad or good, tended to be
immature egomaniacs. There was something heroic and
tragic in Doom that made Batman's numerous foes seem
like a pack of bumbling eccentrics.
(Justyn Dillingham)

greatest moment: Doom invades Stan and Jack's office and threatens
them with the sight of his naked face.
(Vic Fluro)

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 07:41 (seventeen years ago) link


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