~~~~~nutrition nazis 2012~~~~~

Has the big honey industry scam been discussed on IL Xor yet?

The nutrition gang here seems to be quite small.

are you talking about funny honey?

that's it, ya

Have been moving towards eating a low GI diet for the past week or so, mostly because I want my body to use fat more efficiently as a fuel. This has been hard cos I'm someone that's used to living on bread and potatoes the whole time, I probably ate about one loaf of bread a day and I'm trying to replace that with more beans/nuts/fruit instead. Have to say I feel terrible at the moment, my energy levels are just so wiped out, my brain is shot and I'm slurring my words like a drunkard the whole time. Is this perpetually drained state a common thing? I thought it might be due to something else like overexercising, but yesterday I lapsed and had a really sugary flapjack and within a minute I felt fantastic and back to my usual self. Guessing that the depleted energy is probably just my brain telling me that I'm tired just so it gets to have all the glycogen for itself and I'm sure I'll adjust in time, but holy shit, this is grim.

bread lovely bread :(

you need to add more fat to your diet to get through that low carb flu stage. After a 10 days or so you will start to feel better.

yeah, my nut consumption has gone through the roof and is costing me a small fortune

you have to just sort of power though it until your body adapts but it's tough, especially if you are getting a good amount of exercise in. i drank a lot of bulletproof coffee and it helped. http://www.bulletproofexec.com/bulletproof-coffee-recipe/

prbly gonna give that a miss but thanks anyhow!

is there a current nutrition nazi thread?

i don't think so

i ate a lot of kale this summer and im never gonna die

now i cant remember what i was gonna ask!

Seems silly to start a 2015 thread for just the month of gluttony, so let's just run this one out OK

I'm going to Portugal and I'm going to learn to love tinned sardines and I'm going to bring them back and actually eat them this time. Last time sardines were a thing around ILX, I bought probably seven tins of highly recommended brands and never ever opened even one. And then I moved and they. . . did not.

Can we all just admit that quinoa is really not that delicious.

Cauliflower was the new kale, what is the new cauliflower?

lol quincie I did the same thing re sardines

i was too scared

quinoa tastes so weird & earthy...i dont like it unless it's bumped to the max with big flavors/spices

also i learned the hard way that red quinoa gives me horrible bowel cramps :(

I was in G on 14th street waiting for my sandwich order and this douche comes in and starts bitching loudly about grit in his "KI-NO-NA." Front of house is completely at a loss until the manager comes over, apologizes, and gives the guy basically a free meal. Now I get to spend the rest of my life thinking of that douchebad everytime I see the word quinoa. KINONA. KINONA.

I can see where people might get KWEE-NOH-AH, but KI-NO-NA?

I'm having cauliflower tonight, but I'm making it with cream. And a steak.

Every dish I've tried with quinoa would be better with bulgur wheat. Chalk the quinoa phenomenon to unfounded protein anxiety.

The research circles I'm following bifurcate into those who favor higher protein intake increase satiety and reduce obesity, and those who point out that cancer, diabetes and overall mortality are considerably lower in those who eat little complete protein (up til 65-70). In the lab, protein restriction (or just methionine restriction) accounts for most the benefits of calorie restriction on healthspan. Those who want to get sw0le and those who want to live to 120 may benefit from very different diets.

maybe i could start a protein nazis 2015 thread but it's pretty much thread of getting sw0le

how is yr sw0le quest going harbl?

i am pretty str0ng, could do better

I like quinoa OK but it's p. bad for the planet iirc so I feel bad whenever I buy it. also I feel selfconscious abt pronouncing it "keenwa" - not sure why really - so I mostly just hope to avoid saying it out loud. have heard "kwinola" before so El Tomboto's witnessed douchebag is not alone in errant consonant insertion

PS I shouldn't really be here as I am the furthest thing from a nutrition nazi but I've got some good intentions for the new year (haw) so please do keep reviving/starting NN threads, maybe it'll help keep the pressure on

Sardines purchased. Sardines to go in dinner tonight. No sardine excuses.

With whole wheat pasta. Don't worry, I eat so much cheese and wine, do not actually mistake me for an NN.

I bought a selection of sardines and conservas (mussels, oysters, etc.) last week but I haven't touched them yet. I just can't figure out what to do that's meal-like.

im a big fan of this - http://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1013094-pasta-with-sardines-bread-crumbs-and-capers

Finished dinner.

I just. . . don't think I can do tinned sardines. I love them fresh! But I kept thinking, "this pasta would be delicious were it not for the sardines!"

I know I'll end up tossing the leftovers.

NN failure, I know.

There is an Italian joint in the neighborhood with house-pickled sardines. I like those, too! What is my problem with canned? These were Cole's from Portugal, packed in olive oil. Praised by many internet sardine aficionados.

OK I take it back, I'm eating some quinoa in some sort of tahini sauce and it is fine.

Not taking back the vileness of sardines, though.

SARDINE REVELATION! I am in Lisbon and had some sardines from a can and they were/are delicious! I bought some more cans to take home.

Then again I had been drinking all of the wines so maybe they are still vile and I just didn't care.

ok, what i am about to post is pretty embarrassing, so i'd appreciate it if you mocked me quietly to yourselves and not on this thread, bc i'm only trying this bizarro way of eating bc i've realized my attitudes towards food and cooking are way too disordered that i just can't do the 'normal' way of eating to be healthy, at least not for the foreseeable future...

so... i'm trying out the ~raw till 4~ thing... which i'm sure a lot of you are rolling your eyes at right now. i was too, initially, as i just never believed in fad diets. i still don't believe in fad diets, but i also know that not everyone can eat the same way and get the same results, especially due to different kinds of disordered eating.

i won't bother explaining why this lifestyle appealed to me, but i'm on day 6 and i haven't noticed any difference in my sleep (still poor), energy levels (still way low) or general wellbeing. but i've lost 8lbs in that time, even though i've been eating about 2000 cals of fruit during the day, and then mostly starchy vegetables at night, as well as drinking 2.5-3.5 liters of water every day. i realized that it's fucking SALT, man! i'd sort of skimmed something a while ago that mentioned salt as a big factor in weight gain, and i figured out that bc this lifestyle isn't just low fat/low protein, but also very very low salt, that was the cause of the sudden weight loss in such a short period. i eat so much sodium! i guess i sort of knew this, but the RDI is under 1000 mg and a tsp of salt has something like 2000mg, and i must have easily been eating that much (or much more), bc i heavily salt everything. i've quit smoking tho (as of mid-february) so hopefully that will help keep the need for salt down, as my tastebuds recuperate.

this all made me realize that one of the hardest things to give up isn't processed sugar or dairy, but fucking salt! i can't eat most veggies without salt, that's just too much to ask! but if i'm only have one mean a day that i'm adding salt to, it's a huge improvement.

also TMI ALERT TMI ALERT TMI ALERT
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i'm getting something like 150% or more of the RDI for fiber but it's having the uh opposite effect that it should have??

Many raw foods have poor caloric availability. So poor that around a quarter of women who consume 70% raw diets become infertile, that rises to 50% in those reporting a 100% raw diet. Calorie counts can be misleading with raw foods.

On your later point, I believe it's a demonstration that "fiber" is too broad a term. Some types of fiber, like the cellulose that predominates in leafy greens, passes through hardly fermented by gut microbiota, and not at all in many who've lost microbial diversity to antibiotics and refined diets. Other types, like fermentable oligosaccharides as well as non-fiber digestion resistant starch, are the primary food input for the colon's microbial community. Now for the bomb drop: its not fiber that forms the bulk of bowel movements and eases movements, but bacteria, comprising more than half with some diets. So the one simple trick for perfect creamy 4s on the Bristol stool scale is not fiber, but feeding the colon's population with microbiota-accessible carbohydrates. α-galactans from beans; arabinoxylan from wheat bran; fructans from lightly cooked leeks, garlic & onion, artichokes, asparagus; resistant starch from pasta and tubers (especially when consumed as cooled leftovers - after amylose retrogradation).

You may notice the issue here - these aren't foods commonly consumed in raw diets. There's small amounts microbially available fructans in watermelon, peaches and a few other foods, but I'd suspect the easiest way for a raw foodist to feed their microbiota is raw potato starch (~40% resistant starch) added to their smoothie. As you're only raw before 4, consider concentrating on beans, allium vegetables, and roast potatoes in bulk so that you can have ~10% resistant starch leftovers in the refrigerator, ready to microwave.

j i'm not mocking you but if you have issues with disordered eating does it help you to do something with strict rules? i would think it would not but i'm not an expert in this field. also doesn't not getting much fat make you feel bad throughout the day? asking bc i care

Sanpaku, what do you know about chlorophyll in liquid form as a supplement? Thanks for the fiber info! Oh also is there any evidence that eating fruit after cooked food is bad?

Harbz, I'm not too concerned with being strict - if I go out to eat I won't be super carefully monitoring what I order. My food issues aren't about something like anorexia or bulimia, it's not body-related in that way, so I don't think the rules part is a problem. Plus i don't think of them as rules but parameters to work within.

I'm gonna try this for a month and see how I feel at the end. The thing is, nutritional science seems to be constantly changing its stance so I don't feel like there are a whole lot of hard facts. So I'm totally open to this way of eating being totally bullshit.

I'm kinda happy right now that I've at least proved to one of my best friends that it really isn't as straightforward as just calories in/calories out when it comes to weight loss.

Sanpaku, what do you know about chlorophyll in liquid form as a supplement? Thanks for the fiber info! Oh also is there any evidence that eating fruit after cooked food is bad?

Harbz, I'm not too concerned with being strict - if I go out to eat I won't be super carefully monitoring what I order. My food issues aren't about something like anorexia or bulimia, it's not body-related in that way, so I don't think the rules part is a problem. Plus i don't think of them as rules but parameters to work within.

I'm gonna try this for a month and see how I feel at the end. The thing is, nutritional science seems to be constantly changing its stance so I don't feel like there are a whole lot of hard facts. So I'm totally open to this way of eating being totally bullshit.

I'm kinda happy right now that I've at least proved to one of my best friends that it really isn't as straightforward as just calories in/calories out when it comes to weight loss.

Oh and the infertility thing is not an issue for me - it would be a bonus!

The fat thing - that was a problem the first five days but i noticed yesterday that the unsatiated feeling had gone.

> know about chlorophyll in liquid form as a supplement

Generally, whole foods are better choices. Kale is 0.2% chlorophyll and spinach 0.12%, but also offer all the carotenoids and other micronutrients of fresh vegetables. The liquid supplements are solvent extracts (using acetone or DMSO), and run 100 mg/1 Tbsp, or roughly the amount in a 50 g of kale, or 3 cups loosely packed leaves.

Most research is on oral hygeine and topical application in wound healing or local inflammation. There's not much besides toxicology studies on oral ingestion. In rodents natural chlorophyll is poorly absorbed (its recognized in enterocytes and actively rejected), though sodium copper and esp. zinc derivatives aren't well recognized and are somewhat bioavailable. In vitro, chlorophyll appears to be a weak inducer of the the antioxidant response element, so its plausible that the small amounts that are absorbed might improve improve cell resistance to oxidative challenges.

In general, it hasn't attracted much interest, but I suppose it might be a natural alternative to herbal salves on wounds.

Thanks!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mascha-davis-mph-rdn/so-you-want-a-new-superfo_b_9542054.html?utm_hp_ref=healthy-living%22

“[Moringa] has the potential to make a massive impact in countries that bear the burden of malnutrition, where 3 million deaths in children under five years are due to lack of adequate calories and protein…With the leaves containing 30 percent protein and the ability to grow quickly even in harsh environments, moringa is a unique plant that can be a major part of the solution.” says Mascha Davis MPH, RD, founder of NomadistaNutrition.com in her article for The Huffington Post.

i'm not sure if it's PMS or this diet but i've been irritable af since i started it, and my skin is not impressed with the situation either.

it's also really hard to eat 2100 cals of fruit before 6pm - it's so much mass! i feel like i'm constantly eating all day, and even then i struggle to get it all in.

i've been using cronometer.com to keep track of macro nutrients, and i realized the other day that my vit A levels are really high - two days i got something like 2100% of the RDI. when i looked it up, i found out that bc it's fat soluble, toxicity is an issue and effects are really severe. so i was freaking out, since vit a is impossible to avoid in large amounts when you're eating this much fruit and sweet potatoes and pumpkin, but it seems only preformed vit A (from animal products) is really dangerous in excess amounts while proformed vit A from plants is much less toxic.

wouldn't 2100 calories of fruit be like, a massive amount of sugar?

yes! it's tons! but fructose doesn't trigger an insulin response and has a low GI - apparently. i'm not a legit enough researcher to quote anything as fact.

it certainly doesn't give me energy spikes :/ i don't feel any different than when i started this 2 weeks ago.

i knew a fruitarian. she went raw for a few years, then switched to all fruits

she did lose weight and at the beginning, yes, her skin was bad, but it cleared up and she did have pretty nice skin after a few months

was going to reply to your original post, just1n3, but decided not to because i don't know how much you're telling us about your eating habits and past eating experiences (and you probably don't want to, understandably)

the thing that jumped out at me is low energy. i'd go to the doctor's but i'm assuming you've done this already so are exerpimenting with different diets. if this is the case, have you tried reading about how to better absorb vitamins/minerals in foods? and eating different food combinations

Vitamin A on cronometer combines both preformed vitamin A (retinol) and pre-vitamin A carotenoids (mostly β- & α- carotene). Vitamin A hypervitaminosis is possible with preformed vitamin A, so if you're a explorer, lay off the polar bear and seal livers. The body self-regulates vitamin A production from carotenoids, so there's no upper limit. Traditional diet Okinawans do very well on a diet of 80% sweet potato.

High-dose β-carotene supplementation caused poorer outcomes in smokers in some studies from the 90s. The reason may be that the carotenoids (both provitamin A and not) compete for absorption, so high doses of one reduce availability of others. So too much β-carotene reduces uptake of lycopene, lutein, zeaxanthin etc. The lycopene (and cooked tomato intake generally) has some benefits in preventing prostate cancer and skin photodamage, the lutein & zeaxanthin are critical for preventing UV-damage to retinas.

Most problems with added sugar appear due to fructose content, and the problem with fructose in high doses appear due 1) liver metabolism when glycogen replete/sedentary, and 2) small intestinal fermentation and resultant increased endotoxin load. Whole fruit have microstructure and fiber that slows fructose availability, and compounds (esp. brighter colored fruit) have antibacterial compounds that modulate the microbiota. On the whole, the youtube fruitarian characters (ie, DurianRider and gf) that get away with eating 3000+ kcal bananas daily get away with it because they're long-distance bicyclists. Personally, I limit myself to 4 servings of dark berries.