OK, is this the worst piece of music writing ever?

And indeed he also mentions me (and Lena) in his Yeah Yeah Yeah book. Gladdens the heart, I must say.

Someone's confusing DL with Doran.

My problem with the review is that half of it is a book review and the other half is just 'LOL Haim suck and you suck and PS I am great' with no actual proof to back any of these three points up.

I have no hair. Doran has all the hair.

is this the thread where we all agree that the horrible creney piece is horrible? i'm sorry but it is.

did make me want to listen to haim though.

hmmm wait a min DL

xp Heavy metal is pretty much the only genre I can't get into and I don't write for the Quietus but otherwise that comment is otm.

Stevie M says:
October 3, 2013 at 8:26 am

This is an excellent review and see nothing sexist about it at all. Uptight pc Brits don’t like pop music or anything with “girls with guitars” getting dissed no matter how bland they are and cry SEXISM if you dare to go against their expert opinions. Check the xx or coldplay for an example of bland UK bands of recent years all hyped initially by the NME and middlebrow media outlets like The Guardian. Rather than get behind creative bands like The New Puritans they have to go for safe and bland music.

What worries me with the state of critically adored rock and indie is that its so dull and watered down and SAFE which mean young rock fans might end up drifting to the awful actual misogynist sub-genre of rock -Heavy Metal than the once proud , intelligent bands in the rock genre. We need to save the kids from sweaty, spotty, sexless youths watching men in loincloths.
Heavy Metal is the genre Dorian Lynskey , from that twitter exchange, espouses in the guardian and the quietus I think?

Why does Dorien not have a go at the misogyny in heavy metal or the fact that 99% of fans of black metal (who are ALL white) are racists?

You think he's otm about metal being misogynistic and 99% of black metal fans are racist?

I think Dorian is sarcastically saying the comment is so wrong in its facts that it can't possibly be anywhere near OTM in its assumptions.

not all fans of black metal are white (at least judging by attendance at Immortal, Watain and Mayhem shows in Baltimore over the past year or so, where there were some black fans, and plenty of Latino fans in the mix)

and not all fans of black metal are racist either- you could go further and say that not even all fans of explicitly racist/Nazi black metal are racists, for that matter- listening isn't voting and it isn't necessarily a passive acceptance of the messages in the music (and I would also question whether the message within unintelligible distorted screeching/shrieking in a foreign language even constitutes a "message" at all for many listeners)

it would be dumb to deny that there are ideological and committed racists in black metal fandom. there are. but it's wrong to assume that the figure is anywhere close to 99%. that's just ignorant trolling disguised as ethical concern (and sadly typical of the way in which people instrumentalize politics on behalf of an ethical beauty contest that's mostly about feeling superior to someone else)

you could go further and say that not even all fans of explicitly racist/Nazi black metal are racists, for that matter- listening isn't voting and it isn't necessarily a passive acceptance of the messages in the music

I cannot accept this argument.

xp Yeah, it was sarcasm. I don't think we need to waste time explaining why a confused Collapseboard commenter is wrong about metal.

I spend hours of my time reading sixteenth and seventeenth century religious propaganda which demonizes Catholics on behalf of radical Protestantism. I do that because it's also astonishingly beautiful poetry. But at no point do I side with, agree with, or endorse the hateful views which drive, say, Edmund Spenser's "Faerie Queene". The same dynamic- of seeing politically dangerous ideas for what they are, but not allowing that to totalize an artwork which operates on lots of levels in addition to its politically repellent ones- can obtain when listening to music, looking at paintings, or watching films. Politics and aesthetics can't be separated, ever. But they're not the same thing, ever. You can take both seriously, and in fact you have to if you're going to responsibly engage with art.

ok DL,just wanted to check!

I get where DJP is coming from but also where dr3w is too esp re this
(and I would also question whether the message within unintelligible distorted screeching/shrieking in a foreign language even constitutes a "message" at all for many listeners)

Extreme Metal seems to be a genre where lyrics do not matter so some can listen to say Burzum (who are not NSBM but the artist himself is a racist murdering fuckwit) as well as um ... Graveland whose lyrics are neo nazi. (not me, i refuse to listen to nsbm) Many can listen to it and not agree with the lyrics they cant make out and just go for the music. Doesnt make it right, but there's NO WAY 99% of Black Metal fans are racist. I doubt very much 99% of those misguided people who listen to NSBM are nazis either.

Do you listen to Burzum AG? Just out of interest.

I don't feel it is the responsibility of people who are targets of oppression to work out which bits of the art created for purposes of helping continue their oppression are worth salvaging. I do take very personally art that explicitly rejects me or wishes ill on me and I feel no guilt about rejecting it right back, nor do I feel any guilt about wondering why others would expend energy looking for a reason to embrace it rather than reject it for its message.

I get that. Life's too short to waste one's time bending over backwards to "understand" hateful creeps and jerks, and the project of "seeing the good" in X or Y when there are lots of non-toxic artworks to enjoy without such handicaps / drawbacks makes total sense to me. Nor should you feel any guilt at all about such rejection.

dog latin i listen sometimes to mp3s as id never ever buy his stuff and support him financially. Also remember that the great majority of his (good) material came out before he became known as a nazi (which started when he was in prison iirc) and his music has no nazi signifiers at all.

I listen to anti-semitic music sometimes. I used to write about it in grad school and while I'd never 'enjoy' listening to it, I do find it compelling on some level. I'll listen to Burzum and other explicitly anti-Jewish artists occasionally - Absurd, is another one. I haven't really done it in a year or so, so I'm not ideologically opposed to the idea. Hate is a really interested affect. I'm not trying to find the good in evil, I'm explicitly trying to find the evil in evil.

Posting that, though, it occurs to me that not only have I written similar posts on ILX before, but I think I've had exchanges about this very topic with DJP on ilx before. I guess I'm a broken record.

next time I'm in the same city with any of y'all, I'm buying a round

philly yo i think we're already fb friends. i'll take u to my favorite bar.

nsbm tbf is pretty easy to ignore. You dont really come across it as its a very tiny scene who acts dont sell much but It is a bugger however when you hear a track you like thats been posted on ILM aka Nokturnal Mortum and it turns out its nsbm.

Oh cool this again

Oh cool you saying 'Oh cool this again' again

Sorry he mistook you for me DL. And there'll always be room for you on the Quietus if you ever get the time or the inclination to write for us.

Thanks Doran. I wasn't saying I don't write for Quietus as a big "fuck no", just a statement of fact at the moment. I didn't twig that he'd confused Dorian with Doran so I was just baffled.

Anyway, what do you have to say about misogyny in heavy metal you big hypocrite? j/k

What's wrong with being sexy? is my initial response.

I had a piece on dubstep submitted to me once by a very well respected scribe who claimed that any misogyny in dubstep and grime was caused solely by the influence of one scene DJ who used to be a metalhead and that it had to be "that whole Beavis and Butthead thing" that he'd brought over with him, like the shipbound rat who brought the black plague to Norway in 1349. So there you have it 'Bell Dem Slags' by The Newham Generals - obviously the fault of Manowar and/or Tankard.

"the black plague" being the "black death"... my true white supremacist black metal nature shining through unfortunately for a second there.

wait, Manowar are gay shurely?

I believe they're very happy at what they do, yes.

All rock and roll is homosexual. Apart from Cold Chisel.

I had a piece on dubstep submitted to me once by a very well respected scribe who claimed that any misogyny in dubstep and grime was caused solely by the influence of one scene DJ who used to be a metalhead and that it had to be "that whole Beavis and Butthead thing"

Kevin Martin getting the blame?

*Everybody* knows Haim are terrible. And they’re Tories to boot.

What

Scuba? (xpost)

Apparently people are taking the fact that they posed with Cameron because they were booked on a show together after dedicating a fairly meanspirited song to him as deeply indicative of their politics.

XP: It wasn't Scuba but you're along the right kind of lines. I can't even remember the guy's name but he used to be in some Kerrang! style band for five minutes "back in the day".

for those not reading the Haim thread
http://www.collapseboard.com/everett-true/haim-an-open-letter-to-christopher-r-weingarten/

whiney has now replied

And you're the kind of girl I like / Because you're empty and I'm empty / And you can never quarantine the past..
And if I go there, I won't stay there / Because I'm sitting here too long

^^ the haim debate imho

All rock and roll is homosexual. Apart from Cold Chisel.

m8, "when the war is over" is a bit of a poofta song

also, while I'm here, just gonna point out that Everett True *chose* to live in Brisbane

this means he *chose* to live in an almost culture-less city because anything more would distract from furiously typing out pissweak troll blogs

@jordansarge 8h
if you're a white hipster who denies miley cyrus it is because you have a superiority complex about your own appropriation

@jordansarge 8h
if you go to cool brooklyn dance parties you will see much sloppier racial appropriation than what miley cyrus has done

@jordansarge 8h
there is institutionalized racism in miley cyrus' visuals but at least as a pop star she is forced to reconcile with her decisions

twitter was the worst thing to happen to music journalism since the internet

"cool brooklyn dance parties"

but what if you're a white non hipster who doesnt like it?

i had an answer to that in the other thread

white tweeter

when did you stop tweeting you're white

twitter was the worst thing to happen to music journalism since the internet

― Defund Phil Collins (stevie), Monday, October 7, 2013 7:52 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yes

that was not music writing (or else i would have wrote something!)

Using "cool Brooklyn dance parties" as a counter-weight to your argument is gonna allow you to reach all kinds of places

Cool Brooklyn Georgetown cocktail dance parties