oh also re mjf show, i know character actors and all that but you can't just have bunk in your show... bunk is bunk, end of story
― r|t|c, Tuesday, 1 October 2013 00:58 (ten years ago) link
w/ brooklyn 99 i keep telling myself that the office took awhile and parks definitely took awhile but this feels different - there they were figuring out the characters and getting the tone just right and getting away from the shadow of another show (the office uk w/ the office, the office us w/ parks). this just feels like a bad sitcom so far, like they're aiming low and just trying to make a hit show and not a cult show that critics will like but will barely stay on the air.
― balls, Tuesday, 1 October 2013 01:02 (ten years ago) link
trying to make a hit show and not a cult show that critics will like but will barely stay on the air.
I think this is correct
― polyphonic, Tuesday, 1 October 2013 01:10 (ten years ago) link
yeah idk i often feel a little confused when i see ppl (seemingly quite frequently) say stuff like "oh but x got good around halfway through the second season". if it's not at least okay to begin with it's pretty much dead forever in my book
suburgatory is probably the one recent show i can think of where i genuinely wasn't certain if i liked it for ages
― r|t|c, Tuesday, 1 October 2013 01:11 (ten years ago) link
well there's a middle ground between "dead forever" and "stick with it" - "go back when you hear it gets better." did that with parks & rec and the new girl myself.
― da croupier, Tuesday, 1 October 2013 01:38 (ten years ago) link
oh, 30 rock too.
― da croupier, Tuesday, 1 October 2013 01:40 (ten years ago) link
man apparently i need to avoid ever watching early community or 30 rock again cuz those are two shows i loved from day one that the consensus seems to be didn't actually get good until a little while into their runs
― balls, Tuesday, 1 October 2013 01:44 (ten years ago) link
i enjoyed community from the get go (gets "even better" halfway through s1), but 30 rock season 1 (which i revisited recently) def has a simpsons season 1 vibe just in the relatively slack pace of jokes.
― da croupier, Tuesday, 1 October 2013 01:51 (ten years ago) link
30 rock season one was so great from maybe two episodes in.
― Saul Goodberg (by Musket and Pup Tent) (s.clover), Tuesday, 1 October 2013 02:15 (ten years ago) link
even if you enjoy it, i have a hard time believing you can't detect the change in editing/joke density
― da croupier, Tuesday, 1 October 2013 02:22 (ten years ago) link
― da croupier, Tuesday, 1 October 2013 02:38 (6 hours ago) Bookmark
yeah this was... the whole point? talking about the unlikelihood of full-on miracle lazarus jobs not shows that were very watchable to begin with (personally i never did like parks and rec though)
― r|t|c, Tuesday, 1 October 2013 08:48 (ten years ago) link
30 rock seems kind of an odd one, i also rewatched some of season 1 recently and found it hard going but i def loved it at the time
― r|t|c, Tuesday, 1 October 2013 08:52 (ten years ago) link
s1 started rough though
― obi wankin' obi (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 1 October 2013 09:05 (ten years ago) link
iirc it didn't hit its straps until about halfway through that series
― obi wankin' obi (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 1 October 2013 09:07 (ten years ago) link
Fringe was a rare show that was pretty dire in the beginning and then became amazing from around midway through season 2 (it was also a rare sci-fi/mythology show that actually had a relatively satisfying finale). Combination of the actors settling into their roles + writers finding their groove.
― Roz, Tuesday, 1 October 2013 14:14 (ten years ago) link
haha figures that Fringe got good right after I completely gave up on it and refused to go back
― smang culture (DJP), Tuesday, 1 October 2013 14:16 (ten years ago) link
lol I gave up after the third episode, and caught up with it later on. Ended up becoming one of my all-time favourite shows - who knew?
― Roz, Tuesday, 1 October 2013 14:21 (ten years ago) link
I dropped Fringe when it went on holiday break in its first year. I've heard ever since that it got really good when it came back. tbh I didn't care about the premise enough to go back, but you never know. It's on netflix and I might get curious one day.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 1 October 2013 14:23 (ten years ago) link
Fringe definitely got better but it also often posed the argument that not every dramatic series can or should sustain a 60-minute episode length.
― Coke Opus (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 1 October 2013 14:27 (ten years ago) link
fringe turned into a very different show than it started out being in the first two seasons. granted it got confusing as fuck a couple of seasons after that, but it was v enjoyable overall
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 1 October 2013 17:55 (ten years ago) link
I couldn't make it past the first five or so episodes when it was on the air, but from all I've heard I may pick it up again someday to get to the good stuff
― Nhex, Tuesday, 1 October 2013 17:57 (ten years ago) link
yeah, i've got a pretty high bar though - i don't really WANT to get invested in new shows, so I'm quick to bail (almost gave up on Arrested Development around episode 2 cuz the obsequious narration bugged me). But because there are so many shows I get into later and then double-back on, I try to reserve initial judgment. I stop watching, but I don't pretend that assessment pertains to the same show a half-year later when everyone loves it.
― da croupier, Tuesday, 1 October 2013 18:41 (ten years ago) link
Community and Suburgatory might be the only sitcoms of late that really got me from the get-go
― da croupier, Tuesday, 1 October 2013 18:42 (ten years ago) link
i feel like sitcoms particularly need time to figure out the balance. if there's at least good acting talent to begin with, writing can catch up quickly
― Nhex, Tuesday, 1 October 2013 18:54 (ten years ago) link
yeah, and we're all too quick to judge after episode 1.
― obi wankin' obi (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 1 October 2013 21:18 (ten years ago) link
also, the first episode is usually written by one person and the subsequent ones are written months later by a group of writers.
― I got the glares, the mutterings, the snarls (President Keyes), Wednesday, 2 October 2013 00:42 (ten years ago) link
good point!
― balls, Wednesday, 2 October 2013 01:38 (ten years ago) link
the best sitcoms i can think of started roughly (except maybe fawlty towers), so it's only reasonable to expect it of any sitcom. everything needs time to find its feet, even if that time is a year and a half.
― obi wankin' obi (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 2 October 2013 12:19 (ten years ago) link
seinfeld took awhile to find its footing, cheers had it all down from the pilot
― balls, Wednesday, 2 October 2013 12:25 (ten years ago) link
brooklyn 99 better last night fwiw though not 'there' yet
― balls, Wednesday, 2 October 2013 12:26 (ten years ago) link
cheers had it all down from the pilot
the first episode was good but in no way classic
― obi wankin' obi (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 2 October 2013 12:29 (ten years ago) link
First season of Buffy just not all that good -- I mean, better than most of what was around it, but lacking in what made BtVS BtVS
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 2 October 2013 13:53 (ten years ago) link
Less-than-stellar first episodes/first couple of episodes/first seasons are pretty much a rule for episodic television for which I can think of very few exceptions. Maybe just Larry Sanders and The Secret Diary of Desmond Pfeiffer.
― Coke Opus (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 2 October 2013 14:00 (ten years ago) link
Classic Pfeiffer.
― Nhex, Wednesday, 2 October 2013 15:47 (ten years ago) link
Spader hamming it up on the Blacklist is wonderful.
― Cindy Mancini can ride my lawnmower anytime (thebingo), Wednesday, 2 October 2013 16:34 (ten years ago) link
Crazy Ones was highest rated premiere
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 2 October 2013 16:41 (ten years ago) link
prime location though i can imagine there's a significant potential cbs audience that still finds robin williams hilarious
― balls, Wednesday, 2 October 2013 23:27 (ten years ago) link
I think it's near impossible to judge a pilot fairly as a pilot way after the fact, especially if the show went on to be a beloved institution. I loved 30 Rock from the jump and thought it was one of that fall's most promising pilots, but it feels sluggish now compared to later eps. Lots of the best pilots still show growing pains and abandoned ideas/characters later on. It's the shows that actually go downhill in the next few episodes that are doomed.
― marky markers & the blinky bunch (some dude), Wednesday, 2 October 2013 23:43 (ten years ago) link
i ... tolerate sleepy hollow
― effervescent (soda), Wednesday, 2 October 2013 23:50 (ten years ago) link
So both episodes of Moms felt like rough going at first but really won me over by the end. The pacing is still a little wonky (the beat between the joke and the laugh track grates), and Anna Faris feels a little green to multi-camera format compared to Janney (lack of theater experience?) but her kid's boyfriend is a real find, A+ well-intentioned doofus, basically keanu in the movie parenthood.
― da croupier, Thursday, 3 October 2013 00:41 (ten years ago) link
We Are Men EASILY takes worst pilot I've seen this year. Really felt like a rough draft throughout, chances for comic set pieces skipped over, laugh-lines practically had "joke TK" in them.
― da croupier, Thursday, 3 October 2013 00:46 (ten years ago) link
has there ever been a show whose defensive macho bluster is presented right in the title ever worked? Man Up, Last Man Standing... A show can work with that energy, but I feel like it has to be couched in other details to succeed (Married With Children, Entourage). Imo dudes don't really go "hey, this show says MAN in it, I'm a MAN, finally a sitcom at 8:30 for me!" but I might be forgetting an example.
― da croupier, Thursday, 3 October 2013 00:53 (ten years ago) link
Trophy Wife has such a good cast but I have no sense they're ever going to explain how this guy wound up marrying or divorcing either of his first two wives (one harsh, one flaky) before hooking up with a well-meaning hottie. Goldbergs supporting cast is also great but they're doubling down on the "set SOMETIME in the '80s" muddledness without even giving us "malcolm in the middle" levels of surreal family hijinks to make up for it.
― da croupier, Thursday, 3 October 2013 00:57 (ten years ago) link
The Man Show was pretty successful, but obv not a sitcom. But yeah all those recent shows are weak, especially How To Be A Gentleman. Last Man Standing is amiable mediocrity, though, I guess it's still chugging along.
― marky markers & the blinky bunch (some dude), Thursday, 3 October 2013 01:41 (ten years ago) link
http://a5.mzstatic.com/us/r30/Music/4a/03/f4/mzi.pehdbdhk.170x170-75.jpg
rip
― balls, Thursday, 3 October 2013 02:20 (ten years ago) link
haha never saw it and couldn't find any parts of any episodes which is really saying something (found homeboys in outer space), but did find this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqlVZM_sSjo
― balls, Thursday, 3 October 2013 02:25 (ten years ago) link
Last Man Standing is amiable mediocrity, though, I guess it's still chugging along.
amiable?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFmkyZd1rZ0
― da croupier, Thursday, 3 October 2013 02:51 (ten years ago) link
I really want Trophy Wife to be good, the cast is amazing
― smang culture (DJP), Thursday, 3 October 2013 04:00 (ten years ago) link
I was kind of shocked to hear it was created by the Sarah Haskins from "Target Women," apparently based on her experiences as someone's third wife. The show would probably work better if the lead was more like her, but Malin Akerman is so relatively bland compared to everyone else that it accentuates the oddity of her being the sympathetic lead. Like, you know who might not sympathize with the plight of a young woman in short shorts trying to be more involved in the lives of her stepchildren? ACTUAL MOMS.
― da croupier, Thursday, 3 October 2013 04:04 (ten years ago) link
I initially assumed the premise was the outcome of some sort of "you know who's got an interesting life? My third wife" kind of bigwig groupthink.
― da croupier, Thursday, 3 October 2013 04:09 (ten years ago) link