SWANS vs. SONIC YOUTH

Swans, on the merit of their older material. Once they delved into the goth/folk stuff *dodges bottles* they lost me.

I dig old SY about equally, but I want to see Swans get creamed.

*don't want

nobody hurts you like a cop with a club.
nobody rapes you like a cop with a club.

in jail

I really want to vote for Swans (especially as Jarboe is a client and personal friend). But I haven't stopped listening to the first three SY albums since high school. That staying power is inarguable.

I wish they'd broken up after Evol. That's the event horizon where they could no longer escape de-evolution.

And yes, over 30.

TS: sonic death vs. public castration is a good idea

ps I voted for live skull

sy only cuz tremens exists

Sonic Youth is maybe the best band of the last 25 years.

you're high.

*awaits a quarrel*

The last Sonic Youth album that I gave more than a couple listens was Washing Machine. I got the next few but I never listened to them after a couple of plays. I've listened to all of the early records tons and enjoyed them quite a bit.

I've heard the early Swans music and while I can appreciate the intensity, I cannot listen to it at all, it is just way too ugly. I really like some of their later records especially Children of God, The Great Annihilator and Soundtracks of the Blind. All of their stuff is all way too serious, which is kind of their deal, but the later records have some really interesting production and sonic textures.

"is it me or has steve shelley been a boring-ass drummer since goo?"

This is a big part of the problem. Shelley used to play like a mad Keith Moon type with all sorts of crazy rolls on the toms, but that is long gone.

The thing with the later swans, sadman folkie material, is that it's usually a love it/hate it kind of thing. i'm iffy on it. i've kept "the burning world" only for a one song, really--"god damn the sun." other than that i'm an early (and early LIVE) guy all the way.

not that i don't love sonic youth, with reservations. another band who was one of my favorites in high school but i've largely stopped paying attention to them and only listening to bad moon rising/sister/daydream rarely.

michael gira's invisible jukebox in the new wire, he mentions sonic youth a little after being played glenn branca. the rest of the interview doesn't have all that much that he hasn't said before, but it's still pretty interesting.

saw angels of light once, they were ok. SONIC YOOF 4 LYFE

Sweet, I'm high, too.

This is really a TS: Dating Madonna vs. Re-Naming Your Band After Madonna, right?

good for swans then? err maybe not so good. anyways so that wasn't just a rumor?

Apparently. From a 1987 interview:

THURSTON: ... she's like, she used to live in New York, she went out with a friend of ours for a while, and I won't tell you who, because you know who it is. And she was in this band called "Spinal...", this weird Gang-of-Four-ish new wave band, with these kids who were in Deep Six, Circus Mort, who turned into the Swans. I mean, there's a weird connection there; so she is actually part of the Swans thing.

S: Madonna is part of the whole Swans trip? This has the makings of a real underground Weekly World News story. . .

THURSTON: Weekly Weird News.

S: A real news flash: Madonna went out with Michael Gira, we have pictures.

THURSTON: Why Michael Gira?

S: Well, I don't know, you said she was hanging out with the Swans, I mean...

THURSTON: Well, you can't say Michael Gira, 'cause he'd be offended. Michael Gira would be very offended.

KIM: Yeah, he's a very private person.

haha!

not high, jaymc. jest jokin'

Did people who hate on later Swans listen to the last three albums, which were fucking raging full-on?

i wish i could be all cool and badass and pick the swans but i like sonic youth better.

I dig Sonic Youth but I digest one of their albums I lose all desire to listen to it ever again. Swans albums keep giving more and more. So I am not being badass by picking Swans. I just like their music more.

This is another thread were Alex, who I think is my age & was probably listening to all the exact same shit as me in the mid-eighties, says "fuck you, this excellent music is not goth" and I say "it's very excellent but all the goths loved it & there probably would have been less of it if the goths hadn't kept the whole enterprise afloat" and we go around like that. "Goth" for some people means "music I don't like" I think.

Christ I can't spell tonight

alex loves a lot of goth music. he just has a fear of the goth label. or he doesn't want people to think he's goth. or he hates goth people. something like that.

ý buy mýne clothes at hot topýc is teh goth?

sonic youth were definitely one of my favorite bands circa 1985 to 1988 or so. swans have been one of my favorite bands from 1985 till now. that's the difference for me. i NEVER stopped listening to swans. but i definitely stopped listening to my favorite sonic youth albums. and don't even OWN copies of my favorite sonic youth albums anymore. they were great. i will never deny that. and a great live band. swans/skin/etc just gave me so much more to tackle. and i never got tired of hearing whatever sounds gira came up with. i still say that he has NEVER made a bad album. or made music that i didn't find enjoyable in some way.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/edwardiii/lwtua.jpg

LOL at Thurston suddenly seeming very afraid at the possibility of offending Michael Gira.

gira doesn't seem like the type who would hold a grudge

alex loves a lot of goth music. he just has a fear of the goth label. or he doesn't want people to think he's goth. or he hates goth people. something like that.

"Goth" is a pejorative that entirely applies to idiots like Strawberry Switchblade and London After Midnight and the Sex Gang Children and stuff like that. Don't get me wrong, I *LOVE* a lot of Goth bands (notably the `Nephilim and the Mission and the like), but certain bands exude a great deal more depth, promise and ability -- and just because they HAPPEN to succumb to one or two of the trappings of what has lazily come to represent "goth," that should not mean they are similarly tarred with that pejorative.

in other words, SWANS (and Joy Division and Killing Joke and _____ [insert band name here]) deserve MORE RESPECT than to be simply written off as "goths".

I love Sonic Youth, but Swans have hit me on a much deeper emotional level. I'm playing Soundtracks For The Blind right now, in fact and it's working wonders on my psyche.

I should add though that they are capable of hitting me on an equally emotional level even when they're noisy. They're beyond all rock and roll cliche's and trappings, whereas SY are really not.

That's interesting though Alex, I didn't understand before that you saw "goth" as a purely pejorative word. It kindof explains a lot.

now tell me about your father

I'm too much of a pussy to like the Swans much, I guess. Gimme my watered-down, sub-no-wave, post-hippie jam muzik, thanx.

xp x ?

Gof - the life-style choice of tru poseurs!

Having cloth ears != being a pussy.

sez, mr. vague?

everybody in new york circa 1980-82 w/a tangential connection to the music scene has a madonna story. the number of guys she "dated" must be astronomical!

some of their early gigs were like this thread title -- swans "VS" sonic youth, a noize battle unto the death.

i always liked sonic youth better but remain in awe at the gira's musical progression over time, inspiring.

Strawberry Switchblade

lolol

You missed the bit about The Mission having more depth than them.

That Rose McDowall is such a poseur eh?

I love the Mish, but "depth" isn't something I'd expect from a band singing about Faerie Rings and Wastelands.

Sonic Youth, because they were quite simply the better band.

That said, I agree with Edward III that Live Skull were better than either SY or Swans.

But then I would also argue that Savage Republic were better than Sonic Youth or Swans or Live Skull.

And then there's Nice Strong Arm.

At which point it gets tricky......

SWANS completely crush Nice Strong Arm. There is no contest. There is no debate. There is no funeral. There is no apology. Just the merciless, humiliating crushing of Nice Strong Arm.

Everything post "Reality Bath" yes. But "Reality Bath", no. That really is an extraordinary record.

do swans use special goth grip to accomplish this crushing? i have heard the the nice arm is quite strong and crush-resistant. thank you. i am interested in this information.

http://www.historyhouse.com/img/c/russo_japanese_laughing_jap.jpg

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

lurkers win again

I like both bands,but SY only few early LPs and some songs in the rest of the albums,SWNAS are extreme experience and evolution to the cosmos at the end of his career I think,wante d live video shows!

LOL

If we make this a live poll, it's Swans by a ridiculous margin. And because of that, I pick Swans anyway. Bonus points for having a better sense of when to stop. Double bonus points for better deployment of arguably embarrasing female member. Triple bonus points because Skin/World of Skin is better than any Sonic Youth side project. And so on...

Over 30, but of course.

― dlp9001, Tuesday, November 27, 2007 8:34 PM (nine years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

https://phatfriend.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/dr_drew_281x211.jpg

Apparently Gira and Moore didn't speak for years, but they're cool with each other now and Thurston is appearing at a Swans show in London soon. So there's that.