point taken
― Aimless, Saturday, 28 September 2013 01:30 (ten years ago) link
Hey Sy if things have been so bad for the past five years, where have you been?
Is he saying he can't find an editor to print all these vast truths that everyone's ignoring?
I'm not one to defend the water carrying ability of the NYT, but guys like Hersh can get published anywhere they want.
― the rofflestomper (dandydonweiner), Saturday, 28 September 2013 12:12 (ten years ago) link
^ this
― andrew m., Saturday, 28 September 2013 13:54 (ten years ago) link
first thought was yeah yeah yeah, wake me up when there's a story to go read somewhere
― andrew m., Saturday, 28 September 2013 13:56 (ten years ago) link
Hersh, re:Snowden:
Editors love documents. Chicken-shit editors who wouldn't touch stories like that, they love documents, so he changed the whole ball game,"
Maybe Hersh is sitting on a trove of stories, but chicken-shit editors - and one might presume an implicitly chicken-shit Hersh - are afraid to publish them due to all the anonymous sources, lack of hard documentation, etc. Which is, you know, good journalism, but indeed perhaps counterproductive to breaking stories of secrets and lies.
Unclear, since Hersh is quick to qualify, but the whole Osama story is a lie line: does that include the New Yorker's take on it, or is he just ripping on the Times?
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 28 September 2013 14:29 (ten years ago) link
Hersh may still be under contract and in-house at the New Yorker, and so can't publish elsewhere other than in book form.
His recent pieces for the New Yorker have been surprisingly online-only, off in a corner:http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/bios/seymour_m_hersh/search?contributorName=seymour%20m%20hersh
― LinkedIn Beef (Eazy), Saturday, 28 September 2013 16:24 (ten years ago) link
...or he just means that chickenshit editors have less faith in putting journalists on the road for months and months in search of documents that may or may not turn up.
― LinkedIn Beef (Eazy), Saturday, 28 September 2013 16:27 (ten years ago) link
By chickenshit I assume you actually mean "broke." The major paper I often write for was just asked to shave $100 million off its budget.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 28 September 2013 17:04 (ten years ago) link
dud, for inspiring anyone to work "within the system to change it"― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Monday, September 6, 2004 7:01 PM (9 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
geez....tough crowd...
― slam dunk, Saturday, 28 September 2013 17:25 (ten years ago) link
I should've put "chickenshit" in quotes (Hersh's word, not mine).
― LinkedIn Beef (Eazy), Saturday, 28 September 2013 18:28 (ten years ago) link
I like it, but then I would. ...Where did I read recently that when Hersh first met Lieutenant Calley at Fort Benning, Calley vomited blood at the mention of My Lai, which was how Hersh knew he was talking to the right person? Is that fake?
― *rad hug eomticon* (Control Z), Sunday, 29 September 2013 14:50 (ten years ago) link
Don't even get him started on the New York Times which, he says, spends "so much more time carrying water for Obama than I ever thought they would"
hmmmm, I have to dock him IQ points for this surprise.
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 29 September 2013 14:53 (ten years ago) link
http://www.onthemedia.org/story/131080-40-years-later-hersh-on-my-lai/transcript/
― *rad hug eomticon* (Control Z), Sunday, 29 September 2013 21:00 (ten years ago) link
New:
http://www.lrb.co.uk/2013/12/08/seymour-m-hersh/whose-sarin
― Divvy Bikes to Watch Out For (Eazy), Tuesday, 10 December 2013 18:32 (ten years ago) link
Between this and the Bin Laden thing, I'm starting to wonder if Hersh has gone off the deep end. Is there any consensus emerging on how credible Hersh is anymore? Has someone done a really tough, critical interview with him lately?
here's the FP rebuttal piecehttp://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/12/09/sy_hershs_chemical_misfire#sthash.Tr2j2WTW.HEFsZH7A.dpbs
Washington Post & New Yorker passed on Hersh's Syria story, as someone noted abouve the NYer does seem to be quietly edging him outhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/08/seymour-hersh-syria-report_n_4409674.html
― brio, Tuesday, 10 December 2013 18:46 (ten years ago) link
In looking up reactions to the new article, I stumbled onto this from 2006:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/sy-hersh-nsa-listened-to-u-s-calls
― Divvy Bikes to Watch Out For (Eazy), Tuesday, 10 December 2013 20:22 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2G39yJtyl0
― Divvy Bikes to Watch Out For (Eazy), Wednesday, 11 December 2013 06:55 (ten years ago) link
The idea that the government wants to control the conversation about wars and foreign policy and it attempts to distort our opinions through lies and concealment is not a shock, but it certainly is a legitimate news story when they are discovered doing it. Presumably, Hersh has enough experience around disinformation campaigns that he would be difficult to use to 'plant' disinformation in the media. But it is not inconceivable he could be fooled into reporting well-crafted untruths.
― Aimless, Wednesday, 11 December 2013 19:32 (ten years ago) link
Lots of backlash, but another Hersh piece on Syria.
― That's So (Eazy), Tuesday, 8 April 2014 16:54 (ten years ago) link
Yowsa. Turkey looks pretty bad there, Al Nusra more evil than before, and Denis McDonough willfully ignorant in the Feith/Perle/Wolfowitz mold.
― Congratulations! And my condolences. (Sanpaku), Tuesday, 8 April 2014 17:21 (ten years ago) link
This is from back in December, but a good interview:
http://thepolitic.org/syria-snowden-and-obama/
― That's So (Eazy), Wednesday, 4 June 2014 14:13 (nine years ago) link
Bio:
http://scoopartistthebook.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/cover.jpg
― the man with the black wigs (Eazy), Thursday, 6 November 2014 20:23 (nine years ago) link
New interview:http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/dec/05/seymour-hersh-nsa-surveillance-useless
― forbodingly titled It's True! It's True! (Eazy), Tuesday, 9 December 2014 19:35 (nine years ago) link
Come on, Sy. Publish the book.
― RAP GAME SHANI DAVIS (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, 10 December 2014 01:44 (nine years ago) link
Return to My Lai:http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/03/30/the-scene-of-the-crime
― with HD lyrics (Eazy), Monday, 23 March 2015 07:31 (nine years ago) link
Here's what he's been hinting about in speeches for the past few years:
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/seymour-m-hersh/the-killing-of-osama-bin-laden
― ... (Eazy), Sunday, 10 May 2015 23:40 (nine years ago) link
So--what happened to the body, according to Hersh's sources? I'll have to try wading though all that again later.
― dow, Monday, 11 May 2015 00:34 (nine years ago) link
Small portion of the story, but:
The retired official said there had been another complication: some members of the Seal team had bragged to colleagues and others that they had torn bin Laden’s body to pieces with rifle fire. The remains, including his head, which had only a few bullet holes in it, were thrown into a body bag and, during the helicopter flight back to Jalalabad, some body parts were tossed out over the Hindu Kush mountains – or so the Seals claimed. At the time, the retired official said, the Seals did not think their mission would be made public by Obama within a few hours: ‘If the president had gone ahead with the cover story, there would have been no need to have a funeral within hours of the killing. Once the cover story was blown, and the death was made public, the White House had a serious “Where’s the body?” problem. The world knew US forces had killed bin Laden in Abbottabad. Panic city. What to do? We need a “functional body” because we have to be able to say we identified bin Laden via a DNA analysis. It would be navy officers who came up with the “burial at sea” idea. Perfect. No body. Honourable burial following sharia law. Burial is made public in great detail, but Freedom of Information documents confirming the burial are denied for reasons of “national security”. It’s the classic unravelling of a poorly constructed cover story – it solves an immediate problem but, given the slighest inspection, there is no back-up support. There never was a plan, initially, to take the body to sea, and no burial of bin Laden at sea took place.’ The retired official said that if the Seals’ first accounts are to be believed, there wouldn’t have been much left of bin Laden to put into the sea in any case.
― ... (Eazy), Monday, 11 May 2015 01:07 (nine years ago) link
Oh yeah, I saw that, didn't know if I'd missed any more in skimming, thanks.
― dow, Monday, 11 May 2015 02:45 (nine years ago) link
"Did not think their mission would be made public by Obama within a few hours": but what were they gonna do if if they had more time? Some of this just seems pretty squirrely, also for inst like Pakistan vs/ Saudis re each one being competitive/complicit/responsible for bin Laden's maintainance, and paranoid/threatening. Hope some other investigators can verify some of this.
― dow, Monday, 11 May 2015 02:53 (nine years ago) link
ya amazing read but seems to be primarily based on one anon source
― lag∞n, Monday, 11 May 2015 02:57 (nine years ago) link
the idea that bin laden was being held captive by isi does make a lot of sense tho, some of the other details maybe not as much
― lag∞n, Monday, 11 May 2015 02:59 (nine years ago) link
If a feeling counts this feels more right than wrong!
― deej loaf (D-40), Monday, 11 May 2015 03:02 (nine years ago) link
narrative primarily based on one source but validation from others...typical for Hersh.
But who cares anyway, right?
― Robert Earl Hughes (dandydonweiner), Monday, 11 May 2015 03:03 (nine years ago) link
new yorker clearly wldnt touch it
― lag∞n, Monday, 11 May 2015 03:42 (nine years ago) link
I care, but want verification, like with My Lai. A lot (maybe most) people thought that at least some Pakistan govt. elements had to know bin Laden had settled into that city, so why not say, Oh yeah, we were gonna use him as a bargaining chip, 'til that guy betrayed the secret, as Hersh put it. Yeah, whatta party-pooper/ And maybe that's true, but the whole thing w Saudis, like I mentioned also needs much more parsing---Hersh's paraphrasing of sassy insiders raises as many questions as it answers, at least.
― dow, Monday, 11 May 2015 03:58 (nine years ago) link
My Lai was way past verified, even if the perps got off light.
― dow, Monday, 11 May 2015 03:59 (nine years ago) link
I don't doubt that ISi played a role in Bin Laden's confinement to Abbottabad, that Pak air defense withheld response to the SEAL insertion, or that Saud intelligence maintain ties to Al Qaeda (their support of affiliate Al-Nusra in Syria is overt).
I do have doubts that the SEAL team members who've disclosed elements of the raid that they were privy to were pushing an administration fabrication; as a group they take these things very seriously, and arguably none would risk ostracism by peers. While I've no idea whether Bin Laden's remains are at the bottom of the Arabian Sea, the requirement that there be no locus for a martyr's cult adequately explains why his remains or even post-mortem photos weren't released.
― demonstrating its preference by crouching for copulation (Sanpaku), Monday, 11 May 2015 04:02 (nine years ago) link
It may have been an utter mess, with a totally desecrated body torn into a dog's breakfast, but the resolution of the mess through the 'burial at sea' was about as good a resolution as could have been planned, even if they'd thought it through a hundred times and decided on it months beforehand. Kind of an 'all's well that ends well' story.
― Aimless, Monday, 11 May 2015 04:28 (nine years ago) link
Can't imagine Kathryn Bigelow being very happy, if there's a chance her movie told all of the potentially false parts of this story.
― ... (Eazy), Monday, 11 May 2015 04:31 (nine years ago) link
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/04/26/t1larg.sitroomtomason.jpg
― hunangarage, Monday, 11 May 2015 04:42 (nine years ago) link
gosh that movie was such ponderous security porn garbage may it be repeatedly owned by irl forever
― lag∞n, Monday, 11 May 2015 04:45 (nine years ago) link
Recent interview in which Hersh praises Gawker and Buzzfeed.
― ... (Eazy), Monday, 11 May 2015 06:06 (nine years ago) link
Woman Allegedly Put Dead Foot Skin Shavings in Family's Milk
Seymour Hersh
― salthigh, Monday, 11 May 2015 06:16 (nine years ago) link
― lag∞n, Sunday, May 10, 2015 10:42 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
they have all their credibility propping up the official story, which ran in their pages, and whose author (iirc) hasn't written for them again, right?
― goole, Monday, 11 May 2015 14:52 (nine years ago) link
iffy sourcing seems the more likely culprit, not like theyve never published a story that contradicted a previous one
― lag∞n, Monday, 11 May 2015 14:55 (nine years ago) link
dont think it wld "ruin their credibility" or anything
― lag∞n, Monday, 11 May 2015 14:56 (nine years ago) link
lmao never mind
http://www.newyorker.com/contributors/nicholas-schmidle
― goole, Monday, 11 May 2015 14:56 (nine years ago) link
i mean unless u think they just stick to their original story always even when new info becomes available, doesnt seem quite right
― lag∞n, Monday, 11 May 2015 14:57 (nine years ago) link
The New YOrker is never wrong, they employ fact checkers and shit
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 11 May 2015 14:58 (nine years ago) link