so so i just started doing this paleo diet thing - feels like it should be bullshit. is it?

the gelatin seems to help keep it from solidifying into ice cube but the texture still didn't resemble ice cream. (probably because I forgot the heavy cream)

If you're not using any actual sugar (honey, maple syrup, etc), you've got to use xanthan and guar to get creaminess vs. solid block of ice.

welp... I am going off the paleo wagon. Not because I don't want to. I love eating paleo! But my dietician ordered the MRT/LEAP food intolerance test for me, and I have TOO MANY food intolerances to eat paleo for a while. I am intolerant to things that have been staples like sweet potatoes and coconut. I am surprisingly not intolerant to a lot of grains and beans, so I am going to be eating those for a while (for a few months).

Boo. Sad.

:(

:( sry homo. but maybe it'll help in the longrun?

There's still going to be a way to get where you want to go. It just might take a fair bit of tinkering to get there. Goof luck.

Starting a whole30 today. No grains, legumes, dairy except ghee, vegetable oils, alcohol, sweeteners, or white potatoes for a month. Which actually is how we eat 80% of the time anyway, but I'm going to miss going out for Thai food lunches and the occasional dark chocolate to get me through the afternoon.

Mandee, how are you doing with the diet change? Is it helping?

I have no idea. I pretty much feel the same.

i have read about and occasionally dabbled in paleo for a while now, and then this weekend all of a sudden my wife announces that she wants to try whole30. i'm not giving up booze or the two pieces of toast i have most mornings, but i'm in otherwise.

Ended this whole30 a few days early due to needing to celebrate. Down 9 lbs and 1.5 waist inches, which is kind of a surprise since it isn't that different from how I usually eat. Less fruit, more veg, fewer restaurant meals. Have discovered baking with arrowroot and tapioca starch, so those made up more of the carb component that sweet potatoes. 2000 calories/day and limited exercise (meant to start with the kettlebells again but never did).

Rather interesting paper this week:

Levene, Morgan E. "Low Protein Intake Is Associated with a Major Reduction in IGF-1, Cancer, and Overall Mortality in the 65 and Younger but Not Older Population." Cell Metabolism 19.3 (2014): 407-417

• High protein intake is linked to increased cancer, diabetes, and overall mortality
• High IGF-1 levels increased the relationship between mortality and high protein
• Higher protein consumption may be protective for older adults
• Plant-derived proteins are associated with lower mortality than animal-derived proteins

Mice and humans with growth hormone receptor/IGF-1 deficiencies display major reductions in age-related diseases. Because protein restriction reduces GHR-IGF-1 activity, we examined links between protein intake and mortality. Respondents aged 50–65 reporting high protein intake had a 75% increase in overall mortality and a 4-fold increase in cancer death risk during the following 18 years. These associations were either abolished or attenuated if the proteins were plant derived. Conversely, high protein intake was associated with reduced cancer and overall mortality in respondents over 65, but a 5-fold increase in diabetes mortality across all ages. Mouse studies confirmed the effect of high protein intake and GHR-IGF-1 signaling on the incidence and progression of breast and melanoma tumors, but also the detrimental effects of a low protein diet in the very old. These results suggest that low protein intake during middle age followed by moderate to high protein consumption in old adults may optimize healthspan and longevity.

Wasn't there something in the China study about this false idea we need so much protein (esp meat protein)? iirc something about high amounts being somewhat toxic

so.. i stopped being paleo and ballooned up.

I gave up being quasi-paleo about six months ago. I put on a few pounds but probably only the water weight that I lost with paleo. Now I'm yo-yoing around 5lbs this way or that. H-II, have you read about this theory that some people who did well on paleo are possibly not carb intolerant but FODMAP intolerant? I haven't read enough to have any idea what to make of it.

Yeah, I've heard about FODMAPS. I am trying to minimize any food restrictions, though, I get way too obsessive and orthorexic about 'health food'

maybe someday!

Same here, and it screws up my social life because if I'm on some food program or diet, while I'll eat whatever food is available, I'll resent it and never want to go out. No more of that. I've been trying instead to normalize certain MUST EAT IT ALL NOW TO GET RID OF IT foods, but that's for another thread.

Here's an account of the study that found all non-Celiac "gluten intolerance" is actually FODMAP indigestion.

Table 1 of this paper offers a guide for those interested in a low FODMAP diet:

Evidence‐based dietary management of functional gastrointestinal symptoms: The FODMAP approach

There's an interesting angle that some of these FODMAPs are also prebiotics that encourage growth of beneficial bifidobacteria and lactobacillus over firmicutes and enterobacteria.

fodmap diet is hardcore, I'm kinda afraid of it

that stuff makes me too ocd, i just need to find my own way without getting crazy

i did discover that chicory does a real number on me after a clif bar gave me horrible cramps, that was new

do we have or do we want a 'food: finding our own way without getting crazy' thread? or are we better off just embedding that everywhere we can?

oh no i would be down with that

i'd like to think there's a lot of restriction exhaustion going around?

FODMAPs and gluten and paleo and no legumes and no meat and don't eat tuna and "my knees hurt if I eat corn-finished beef but not grass-finished" and DHA/EPA balance and etc etc etc

kind of all goes heavily toward Pollan on nutritionism plus the wisdom of "eat food, not too much, mostly plants"

please give me a normal food thread, did we start one? I am on the 'eat whatever I want' diet right now and I actually feel really good

what I'd really like is to have a safe space to discuss food issues, yummy food, without people citing too many studies and etc (sorry Sanpaku but it gives me anxiety) -- like vegemitegrll I have a tendency to go WAY OVERBOARD with restriction and tip into orthorexia

Just join us on the what's cooking thread! I'm pretty sure I've mentioned that this stuff makes me feel neurotic too, so I have avoided this thread until I saw today that there was a request for food talk minus neurosis.

i think the what's cooking thread is perfect for general food discussion - it's always v positive and interesting

I remember you talking about how 'detox' talk (can't remember if that was it exactly?) made you anxious, LL, and at the time I didn't understand, but ever since bouncing the paleo scene, I am subscribed to all these Paleo FB pages, and it all gives me so much anxiety.. plus I have a few militant vegan FB friends who also post a lot about the China Study etc etc and AHHHH THERE IS SO MUCH INFO AND SO MANY 'GURUS' AND ITS JUST... EXHAUSTING. i'll join the cooking thread!

all "detox" claims are 100% bullshit tbh

yep

I got nervous about starting a normal food thread because derailment potential seemed great. The What's Cooking thread is fantastic. I like the idea of occasionally using that to talk about finding a way of eating that makes you happy without resorting to restriction.

yeah that's a good idea, that's a good place to hang without studies or too much stressful crazytalk

I don't go orthorexia or too restrictive, if I start paying attention to the studies and gurus I just say "fuck it" and eat the same unhealthy shit as ever - appeasing all of the gurus and shit would be impossible.

if I collect all the studies, the guru's advice, and compared... I think the only safe thing to eat might be... steamed broccoli?

I think all roads inevitably lead to a) get busy with the enemas or b) drink yr own urine or c) some kinda weird combo of both

broccoli makes some people farty. i've been just eating what i want to eat lately and it makes me binge on garbage a lot less. reading about studies makes me want to throw up.

I'm interested in some of the studies insofar as they might give me ideas about ways of eating I could try, and see if they feel good for ME. I'm just not interested in trying to perfectly (or even imperfectly) reflect them in the way I eat. Especially not in cutting anything out.

I'm trying to learn to cook fancy-ish. Eating better because I did something cool beats listening to people argue about legumes, and I've wound up cutting way back on processed foods anyway.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/21/fashion/the-paleo-lifestyle-the-way-way-way-back.html?rref=homepage&module=Ribbon&version=origin®ion=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Home%20Page&pgtype=article

Paleo, more than just food, its a lifestyle

Ms. Tam, a confessed television addict, decided to cut out all electronic devices after 8 p.m. If she has to check her iPhone, she wears amber goggles to block the blue-spectrum light that she believes interferes with her circadian rhythms. Next, she turned her bedroom into the equivalent of a Lascaux cave, removing all clocks (her two young sons serve as her morning alarm, she said) and installing blackout window inserts.

....

For those who spend their day rearing children, the primal impulse has made major inroads into parenting, too. Websites like The Primal Parent extol corn-syrup-free trick-or-treating, baby slings for “attachment parenting” and placenta-eating for new mothers.

Unstructured play, in particular, has become a cherished concept among Paleo-minded parents like Ms. Phelps, the Oregon devotee, who argued that “play is the method by which all mammals learn.”

There's some threads of truth woven throughout all of that, it's just taken to a crazy level of scrupulosity/obsession/control for control's own sake. Play IS the best way to learn, slings DO build parent/child body rhythms through scent and heartbeat and the swaying and vestibular stimulation of walking and moving. People who have trouble sleeping should think about light and stimulation, whatever.

Where it turns crazy is in the idea that you can perfect yourself and your living conditions? Like when the pursuit of some perfect or move evolved state takes precedence over...everything else?

I agree

And the desire to simplify stuff that isn't simple. More play = better. 'Play' = the same thing for all kids. 'Learning' is always best done the same way, regardless of what it is we're talking about learning. If a child rarely got into any kind of play, you'd be rightly worried - but some kids are little fantasists doing pretend play every minute and wanting adults to join in, and others are more into stuff like figuring out how things work by taking them to bits or helping 'sweep the floor'. (I'm using fraternal twins of my acquaintance as my inspiration here). A lot of researchers claim play is directly crucial to children’s healthy development, others think it's one of many routes to healthy development, or that it comes about as a result of other factors that drive development.

High Maintenance, 'Qasim' very very relevant here
http://vimeo.com/79948720

But Paleos tend to look the other way on vodka (particularly potato vodka, which is free from all associations with gluten) and 100 percent agave tequila (hey, it’s cactus).

Pinterest, in fact, is brimming with Paleo cocktail recipes, like the Paleo Strawberry Daiquiri, courtesy of Paleo Girl’s Kitchen. It is made with organic strawberries, ice, fresh-squeezed orange juice, rum and honey.

An ex started doing this two years ago. She's not rigid, but follows the basics religiously (no bread, no pasta, no beans, hardly any potatoes). You can't find a more skeptical person like me when it comes to this stuff, but she has lost 30lbs and is looking more healthy than I've ever seen her before. It's quite remarkable. She tried loads of diets before and it always failed. This, she says, isn't even really dieting, as in not depriving yourself of things. But her transformation is truly remarkable.

I'm basically on this damn diet out of necessity and I'm not going to lie, there are upsides. But if those foods didn't cause me pain and suffering? I'd eat a fucking pizza once in a while.

Some of the less caveman-obsessed paleo people are starting to come around on some bullshit like 'no legumes.' That's the part of (aside from feeding into questionable intolerance/allergen paranoia - not even gluten so much as nightshades) paleo that never made any sense to me - whatever perceived negatives there are of legumes are cancelled out by cooking the damn things.

paleo parenting? isn't low infant mortality sort of not paleo

the person who runs this blog just followed me on twitter randomly and... i dunno, wau

http://drbganimalpharm.blogspot.co.uk/

I am sitting in a cafe that sells, and facilitates loud conversations about, bulletproof coffee. I'm not sure how I'm going to get along in this neighbourhood.

I don't know about that blogger. An obsession with the exact proportions of various species of bacteria in one's gut as a profound indicator of one's health or lack thereof seems a bit ott.