Rufus Wainwright - Classic or Dud?

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I've finally figured out why I don't like him all the more clearly, based on the two random encounters with his recent album in record stores lately. He sounds like Thom Yorke but all wrong with suck arrangements (and anyone who does like him who doesn't like Yorke's voice, I MOCK THEE). I'd rather listen to Chris Martin, for crying out loud! DEATH DEATH DEATH. There, vented for now.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 03:18 (9 years ago) Permalink

Live, his voice fills an opera house, but on record, he likes to bury it. So frustrated was producer Alex Gifford with this strange insistence of his, he swore never to work with him again after Poses.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 03:55 (9 years ago) Permalink

I cannot get into Want One. Maybe that's because my hatred of Thom Yorke won't allow my unconscious to enjoy it?

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 04:40 (9 years ago) Permalink

Or maybe it's the way that first track bites fucking "Bolero." Sheesh. What a drama queen.

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Wednesday, 7 January 2004 04:45 (9 years ago) Permalink

1 year passes...

UK people, there is a documentary on Channel 4 about him right now. Sting is singing his praises, and so is the guy from Keane, which wouldn't encourage me to investigate further.

― ailsa (ailsa), Sunday, 13 March 2005 00:00 (8 years ago) Permalink

Marc Almond and Siouxsie love him, though. This makes me despair. They could be loving Romanthony instead or something.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 13 March 2005 00:07 (8 years ago) Permalink

"Want One" was terrible. The more he expresses himself, the more boring he becomes.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Sunday, 13 March 2005 00:26 (8 years ago) Permalink

want one and want two would've made one pretty good short album between 'em. among other things, he could really really use a lyricist. but poses is so drop-dead beautiful, and he's so incredibly endearing in concert that i'm willing to forgive these faults and more.

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Sunday, 13 March 2005 00:33 (8 years ago) Permalink

Eh... he has some great songs ("Cigarettes and Chocolate Milk," "California," "Oh What a World," his rendition of "Across the Universe," "Gay Messiah" and a few more), so I wouldn't say he's a dud, but he sure isn't classic either. Maybe with a few more albums.

― The Brainwasher (Twilight), Sunday, 13 March 2005 01:18 (8 years ago) Permalink

I kept wondering what he'd done to deserve a whole show dedicated to him. Because... he didn't seem very good.

― Suedey (John Cei Douglas), Sunday, 13 March 2005 01:27 (8 years ago) Permalink

I used to think he was a dud. Mainly cos he was recommended to me by a friend who usually likes lots of depressed singer/songwriters. But having heard Want Two, I really like what he's doing.

I saw the documentary tonight, and I really liked his whole self deprecating sense of humour.

And why are there so many (well two) attractive gay musicians?

― jellybean at home, Sunday, 13 March 2005 01:47 (8 years ago) Permalink

I only really like the song "California."

― edd s hurt (ddduncan), Sunday, 13 March 2005 01:55 (8 years ago) Permalink

I saw him live around the time that the first album came out, then got around to picking it up a few months later and it's one of my favorite albums. never got around to checking out any of the other albums, though. not sure about the Want ones but I saw him live again around the time of Poses and those songs sounded good too.

― Al (sitcom), Sunday, 13 March 2005 02:00 (8 years ago) Permalink

more than anything, i love the title song from poses, which is the song that singlehandedly turned me into a fan: the resignation in his voice as he sings about wearing flip-flips on fifth avenue ... the way he makes "avenue" fit into the meter when by all rights it shouldn't ... the subtle way the chorus creeps on you before exploding into a nice big pop change ... the impossibly high note in the last repeat of the chorus ... so many other great moments in that one little pop song.

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Sunday, 13 March 2005 02:06 (8 years ago) Permalink

I confess. I watched the doc just to see his mum.

And his sister. Rwor.

― Masked Gazza, Sunday, 13 March 2005 02:10 (8 years ago) Permalink

Taking Sides: Rufus Wainwright's version of "Across the Universe" versus Fiona Apple's.

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 13:46 (8 years ago) Permalink

I thought he was classic on his first two albums, but I hated Want One, and haven't been bothered to even listen to Want Two. His best song is "Instant Pleasure" which he foolishly put on the Big Daddy soundtrack and not on one of his albums.

― Jonathan (Jonathan), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 14:07 (8 years ago) Permalink

'My Phone's On Vibrate For You' is a truly horrific song. Sub-par Thom Yorke-isms all the way.

I'm prepared to give him another chance, as that's the only track I've heard (and instinctively recoiled from) thus far.

― Goit MacLachlan, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 16:16 (8 years ago) Permalink

One of the best shows I have ever seen was Rufus at the Fillmore touring Want One. Martha is lovely too and very sweet. I find all of his albums initially hard to get into but once they worm their way in, they become very dear and I find myself absentmindedly humming bits of songs during the day.

― Michael White (Hereward), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 16:25 (8 years ago) Permalink

Yes, he does kill live. But Rufus is a case study of someone who got major-label push and money before his songwriting caught up with his ambition. "Poses" is his best album and the s/t debut has marvelous songs, but oy! When he can't find a melody he'll croon around one, or rely on bathetic strings and as a crutch. "Want One" confirmed it.

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 16:52 (8 years ago) Permalink

'My Phone's On Vibrate For You' is a truly horrific song. Sub-par Thom Yorke-isms all the way.

"Vibrate" is so many leagues above anything Thom Yorke has put his name to! Even apart from that I don't see that they share any similarities at all, either lyrically or sonically.

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 20:47 (8 years ago) Permalink

Wonder if Rufus himself doesn't like "Want One". Saw him last month and there were almost NONE of the songs off that I would have thought would definitely get an airing - no "I Don't Know What It Is", "Movies Of Myself", "14th Street" or "Go Or Go Ahead" (my four favourite songs off that album) - so what was actually played off it was slightly outshone by the "Want Two" stuff, which I had theretofore not liked that much.

― edward o (edwardo), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 20:58 (8 years ago) Permalink

classic if only for the brilliant verse below from "The Gay Messiah":

What will happen instead
Someone will demand my head
And then I will kneel down
And give it to them

And I like his voice LOADS more than Thom Yorke, who I honestly have no time for. While I can understand someone saying they have similar timbre and texture, Rufus thankfully never sounds like a lamb bleating out of tune

― rentboy (rentboy), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 21:34 (8 years ago) Permalink

I love Rufus's voice myself, it's like melted chocolate, but I can also totally understand people who are frustrated with it: my classically-trained best friend has only just come round to him after years of antipathy, but phrases like "he doesn't open his MOUTH" and "aargh, NASAL" still roll forth from her every so often.

I kind of dread the next album: I think by now it's clear that Rufus thrives on attention, and this gives him more confidence to really indulge himself, so now his PR people are doing such stellar work fuck only knows what ideas he'll carry through next.

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 21:40 (8 years ago) Permalink

11 months pass...

Blaaaahhh... YUK !
Start with a block minor chord on the piano... Am.

Melody: start on the 5th and descend predictably/diatonically..
E DD CC BB A.

Switch Chord to (predictable) Dm.

Melody : F EE DD AA B

Lyrics (from beat 1 of A minor chord) :

"All the times I tried to hide from,
everything I was denied..."

Remember to hold your breath, plug your nose
for the nasal whine and sing out of the corner
of your mouth.

Repulsively pathetic, boring, depressing, monotonous,
unoriginal and disgusting is Rufus.

-- Musicfan101 (mz...), March 1st, 2006.

the nasal bleating thing is annoying, someone so gaga over opera should pay attention to vocal technique

― timmy tannin (pompous), Wednesday, 1 March 2006 03:14 (7 years ago) Permalink

I just saw him schmoozing at the Whitney Biennial preview opening. He was wearing some rather pretentious robes, bottle green, and happened to be saying "He's a big fan of my dad" to someone as I passed. Nabisco was nearby, fussing over Daniel Johnston.

― Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 1 March 2006 03:49 (7 years ago) Permalink

The few songs that I love ("Grey Gardens", "Poses", "Danny Boy") I really love, but it's outweighed by a lot of "okay, I'm impressed by the songcraft qua craft, but it sounds like a homework assignment from Goffin and King."

― Myke. (Myke Weiskopf), Wednesday, 1 March 2006 03:59 (7 years ago) Permalink

Snarf.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 1 March 2006 06:10 (7 years ago) Permalink

6 months pass...

I bought a RW disc in Chicago 'cause they were playing 'im at The Chicago Diner, in Boys' Town. They said he comes there to eat sometimes.

― Shoes say, yeah, no hands clap your good bra. (goodbra), Thursday, 14 September 2006 04:41 (6 years ago) Permalink

the nasal bleating thing is annoying, someone so gaga over opera should pay attention to vocal technique

spot on. it's all one long, mumbled note. I have no idea why his vocals are so admired.

he makes me want to forcibly expunge his sinus bees.

― guanoman (mister the guanoman), Thursday, 14 September 2006 06:00 (6 years ago) Permalink

Snarf indeed. I love his version of hallelujah.. I dont know if that makes me a very bad person, I think it might.

― Rowlando for the kidz (Sam Rowlands), Thursday, 14 September 2006 11:23 (6 years ago) Permalink

i like his version of "he ain't heavy, he's my brother" over the hollies one.

― wogan lenin (dog latin), Thursday, 14 September 2006 12:48 (6 years ago) Permalink

he's a lucky whore

― Vichitravirya XI (Vichitravirya XI), Thursday, 14 September 2006 12:55 (6 years ago) Permalink

WANT ONE still album of the decade so far, for me.

― pisces (piscesx), Thursday, 14 September 2006 13:34 (6 years ago) Permalink

he's a lucky whore

Hott.

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Thursday, 14 September 2006 14:26 (6 years ago) Permalink

c'mon Momus, you're in no position to tell people off for wearing "rather pretentious robes".

― jed_ (jed), Thursday, 14 September 2006 14:31 (6 years ago) Permalink

Boring.

― gentoo (gentoo), Thursday, 14 September 2006 16:08 (6 years ago) Permalink

Genius.

― The Brainwasher (Twilight), Thursday, 14 September 2006 19:16 (6 years ago) Permalink

That's weird -- I don't remember any robes on him at the Whitney, just some remarkable early-70s trousers. I even have Daniel Johnston's brother on tape saying "those are some pants he's wearing."

― nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 14 September 2006 20:17 (6 years ago) Permalink

Like someone said upthread, Rufus should be classic - seems to have all the right elements in their right places - but there's too much I don't like. Love the extremes of "In a Graveyard" to "Oh What a World," but I find less to like in between. Could probably put together a 10 song mix I'd love (which would include a live "Little Sister," which should've remained as Rufus and his piano instead of the hokey Want Two version).

― Jamesy (SuzyCreemcheese), Friday, 15 September 2006 01:05 (6 years ago) Permalink

8 months pass...

new record, still annoying

― gershy, Sunday, 20 May 2007 23:40 (5 years ago) Permalink

Classic on songs written by other people (like "What Can I Do" off the Antony and the Johnsons record or "I'll Build a Stairway to Paradise"), but I'm not a huge fan of his own songs (I haven't heard that much, though)...it might just be the production, though.

― Tape Store, Monday, 21 May 2007 00:21 (5 years ago) Permalink

He's still a genius.

(Haven't picked up Release the Stars yet, plan on doing so soon)

― The Brainwasher, Monday, 21 May 2007 00:35 (5 years ago) Permalink

I liked his first two records; now he's a certifiable menace. Has Neil Tennant exercised quality control on this one?

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 21 May 2007 00:36 (5 years ago) Permalink

Want One was great though! and Want Two was worth hearing despite the massive overreach. It's the debut I'm not into but I've only given it half a listen. He was great on Letterman last week. I don't know what he was going on about but he belted it out, whatever it was. In lederhosen.

― tremendoid, Monday, 21 May 2007 01:36 (5 years ago) Permalink

I think, when he's on form, he's a fucking amazing melodicist (and a very good singer, obv.) and he's got just enough control alongside his camp to keep his arrangements just the right side of audacious (i.e. impressive rather than pompous).

I also think he hit an unarguable melodic peak circa Want One, and that Want Two was a serious step backwards, totally over-reaching. The new one gains some control back, definitely, and some of the arrangements are amazing, but there's nothing quite as melodically spectacular as the first four tracks on Want One. This is only off a couple of listens, though.

Expect to see choice phrases from this post in a Stylus review near you later this week...

― Scik Mouthy, Monday, 21 May 2007 08:29 (5 years ago) Permalink

Perversely (of course) I think Want Two is his best work, certainly the record of his that I play most.

Not quite sure about the new one yet; veering perilously close to writing about His Privileged Life at times and while some of the bitching about previous/failed lovers is quite entertaining he cuts deepest on the America-as-lover-extended-metaphor ballads, e.g. "Leaving For Paris" and especially "Not Ready To Love" which is a quite stunning marriage of Fairport Convention and Art of Noise (both R Thompson and N Tennant making their influence felt). The one with Sian Phillips going mad at the end is also pretty fab.

― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 21 May 2007 08:34 (5 years ago) Permalink

enjoyed but wasn't blown away by Judy at Carnegie Hall last year, though I'm certainly thrilled I got to go. haven't found my way into the new one yet; first half-listen sounds good.

― Matos W.K., Monday, 21 May 2007 09:15 (5 years ago) Permalink

Richard Thompson vs the horn section on "Slideshow" = stunning. Things start tailing off for me after that, though. I think he overdoes the trick of starting relatively downbeat/unadorned/vulnerable, piling on the orchestral layers, and ending on a note of triumphal resolution, having turned so many musical corners that the end of each track bears scant relationship to its beginning. Don't get me wrong, it's a *great* trick - but it's also somewhat overplayed. I like the dissatified-nomad-in-exile qualities which "Going To A Town" sets up and "Tiergarten" develops, and I don't miss the more overtly campy playfulness which punctuated previous albums.

― mike t-diva, Monday, 21 May 2007 09:25 (5 years ago) Permalink

It's as if he's trying to convince himself that he's happy.

Musically, though, Richard T is man of the match - I noticed those little Derek Bailey scribbles in "Slideshow"...

― Marcello Carlin, Monday, 21 May 2007 09:32 (5 years ago) Permalink

Skipping 54 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Making of:

http://www.nowness.com/day/2012/5/5/2130/rufus-wainwright-bitter-tears

― caro's johnson (Eazy), Saturday, 5 May 2012 05:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

I love this thing -- one of the year's best. Never thought I'd say it again about a Wainwright record.

― Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 5 May 2012 16:54 (1 year ago) Permalink

I love this as well, and playing it continuously.

I can't quite pin down what it reminds me of exactly, but it has a nostalgic feel that takes me back to the 70s.

― Bob Six, Sunday, 6 May 2012 09:06 (1 year ago) Permalink

On first listen I was entirely underwhelmed. Much more soft rock than pop. And it's not the sort of soft rock that I find moving ('Art Teacher' was moving).

― we gotta move these refrigerators (CaptainLorax), Sunday, 6 May 2012 14:14 (1 year ago) Permalink

I really like this new one and I haven't even been remotely excited for him since the Want One/Two days. I love the 70s AM rock touches, I think they work pretty well. Kinda wish he'd lay off the gospel backing choirs on some of these though.

― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 14:11 (1 year ago) Permalink

4 weeks pass...

huh, had no idea that Nels Cline plays on this album, i wonder what tracks.

― shipl.de.al (some dude), Wednesday, 6 June 2012 13:42 (11 months ago) Permalink

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