2008 Primaries Thread

haha, yeah

it's here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4iD0JVIYmI

lol Hitchens:

How can one equal Bill Clinton for thuggery and opportunism when it comes to the so-called "race card"? And where does one even start with the breathtaking nastiness of his own conduct, and that of his supporters, in the last week? Barack Obama carries South Carolina having made no sectarian appeal to any specific kind of voter, and the best Clinton can say is that this is no better than Jesse Jackson managed to do. Really? Did Jackson come south having already got himself elected the senator from Illinois? And, come to think of it, was Jackson so much to be despised and sneered at when he was needed as Clinton's "confessor," along with Billy Graham, during the squalor of impeachment?

This calculated willingness to shop on both sides of the street of racial politics was actually analyzed quite shrewdly by Dick Morris, the former consigliere of the gruesome twosome, in conversation with Sean Hannity last week. The Clintons, he thought, would be quite happy to lose big to the "black vote" in South Carolina. It would enable them to signal that they were the ones to stem the flow of the color tide. Morris' host protested that this seemed a touch cynical. Morris jovially assured him that he knew the people he was talking about.

Does Hillary really want the Florida & Michigan delegates so bad that she will risk looking inconstant and disloyal to her own party by going against her previous commitments?

I understand that the Dem candidates were pressured by party officials in IA, NH, NV, & SC -- the early primary states -- not to campaign in MI and FL, and now that those contests have passed, it just seems like a huge slap in the face to those early states.

Classic Clinton, really.

I really don't see the party reversing its position re: MI and FL just to appease Clinton and hand her some extra (and dubiously "earned") delegates. That would look like some really craven, undemocratic, backroom manipulative bullshit to a large part of the Democratic Party.

how's "craven, undemocratic, backroom manipulative bullshit" any different from primary politics of years past?

well, touche - its hard to conceive of a scenario wherein such a move would NOT look like the party bending the rules and "crowning" Hillary against the will of the actual voters

I don't know, it just seems like a huge gamble for her campaign to even attempt it -- Does she not realize the risk she runs, i.e. appearing in the exact image of the cynical political operator that she's worked for months to counter?

She'll risk it.

the Democratic electorate got John Kerry last time. Anything's possible.

but why would the Party capitulate to her demands? What do they gain from it? They'd be risking alienating their voting base (and in turn suppressing turnout in the GE), they'd look like idiots for going back on their previous policy, etc.

i don't know why i'm feeling this NOW but her condescension and contempt towards voters is really upsetting to me

like, who the fuck does she think she is? ugh.

(don't answer that ^^^, rhetorical)

SHE IS THE PRESUMPTIVE NOMINEE.

when you assume you make an ass etc

Well, that hurts my feelings.

when you presume you make an ass out of you, me, and legendary long distance runner steve prefontaine

I think if she tried to make MI and FL count, it'd be VERY transparent to the voting public. It's not like the DNC decided after the fact that those states wouldn't count; Obama made a decision not to campaign in Michigan and Florida because he knew they didn't count.

for the record she IS trying, I just can't see a reason for the Party to kowtow to her demands

right -- and there's plenty of time to make peace with MI and FL during the general election campaign, yes?

I'll likely be voting for "Jesse" on the 5th as the feasible STOP RODHAM choice.

(and wearing my '72 McGovern button)

I've actually never doubted that the Florida delegates will be counted, eventually. Let's see.

OK, that's disgusting that she's trying.

do you guys really think the democratic party are really that stupid?

I got a call from some neighbor of mine to work the Obama California campaign leading up to Feb 5th.

I might do it, haven't decided.

see? the only people i think would be happy at hillary's trying would be her supporters, especially in MI and FL -- it's not exactly gonna win anyone else.

but is daria around to give a counterpoint?

when you assume you make an ass etc

This would be perfect without the "etc".

i cant make my face into an ass

also, startling to see how promptly Clinton supporters are aiming turds at the Kennedys

examples plz

just blog comment trolls, nothing of note

Romney's apparently picking up steam in Florida (tho I don't know how Crist's endorsement will impact the GOP primary), but Romney needs to get stories like this to Florida GOP voters.

If Florida's GOP voters know enough about this, it should make a difference, maybe a game-changing difference.

did i miss a link to an article about the HRC/MI/FL thing? why is everyone talking about this now?

If McCain does NOT win Florida, I will be very happy.

Even better if it's Ghouliani

Romney's done. Giuliani supporters are McCain-supporters-in-waiting, and dude has already essentially endorsed his friend. Huckabee supporters are at least equally if not more likely to go McCain, and Huckabee's got no love for Romney and is increasingly an entrant in the McCain veepstakes. Fox News hates Romney. Whose endorsement is he gonna get? Jeb's been pretty quiet. Dick? There's a popular guy.

I dunno - its been mentioned several places over the last few days that she's been pushing for it.

x-post

i mean, i could be wrong, but i think we know who the repub candidate's gonna be.

Huckabee supporters are at least equally if not more likely to go McCain

really? why do you say this? I wouldn't have drawn this conclusion but I haven't been following FL closely - what with their track record of not knowing how to vote/hold an election.

Romney's done. Giuliani supporters are McCain-supporters-in-waiting, and dude has already essentially endorsed his friend. Huckabee supporters are at least equally if not more likely to go McCain, and Huckabee's got no love for Romney and is increasingly an entrant in the McCain veepstakes. Fox News hates Romney. Whose endorsement is he gonna get? Jeb's been pretty quiet. Dick? There's a popular guy.

I HOPE YOU ARE WRONG.

i mean, i could be wrong, but i think we know who the repub candidate's gonna be.

Parker Posey??????

http://i30.tinypic.com/v9efr.jpg

I don't know how the whole MI thing went down, to be honest. I think it's kind of assumed the delegates will be seated anyway. I guess Florida's reps are not happy about the DNC's move, of course.. and again not sure what the deal is, beyond having heard that, frankly, under Dean the DNC is sort of off on an island and clashing with other organizations in the party (DCCC, DSCC, DLCC). Clintonistas vs Dean, Clintonistas vs Kennedys..

i mean, i could be wrong, but i think we know who the repub candidate's gonna be.

Agreed, but at what cost to the GOP?

it's come up again because the FL primary is tomorrow -- but Hillary's campaign released this on Jan 15th:

http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZGFhZmRhOTNiNWE1YzBiYzRlNmZlNThlZTE3MjMyZWI=

Let us be clear about something else, however. While Senator Clinton will honor her commitment not to campaign in Florida in violation of the pledge, she also intends to honor her pledge to hear the voices of all Americans. The people of Michigan and Florida have just as much of a right to have their voices heard as anyone else. It is disappointing to hear a major Democratic presidential candidate tell the voters of ANY state that their voices aren’t important.

Everyone is talking about Florida now because Hillary will be holding an event there after the polls close and a bunch of bloggers got bent out of shape and keep talking about how she's breaking a pledge to the DNC (not true), which is good for Hillary because it keeps people talking about Florida.

Florida, Mrs. Clinton will hear you now.

Talking about Florida = South Carolina is yesterday's news
Not a bad plan

HRC understands Florida Democrats who, like her, are searching for their voice.

daria, why do you assume that the "delegates will be seated anyway"? i don't understand how you reach that conclusion so easily.

HRC spending energy in Florida is probably best for Obama, who's better off spending energy in Virginia or the south Rockies states, i.e. the most swingin'est swing states that were red in 2004.

Not to mention Ohio.

If the Dem nom gets all the Kerry blue states plus Ohio, the Dems win.