Is this anti-semitism?

"Israelis are forgetting about the Holocaust!"

eh?

Part of it is rhetoric, I agree. But to a certain exist, it just comes down to the absurdity of it all - how is Israel supposed to have any sort of realistic peace/whatever talks with a group that refuses to accept its right to exist as a state? On a very, very basic level that undermines any legitimacy of what goes on.

― iatee, Wednesday, February 18, 2009 7:20 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

DAMASCUS (Reuters) - Hamas acknowledges the existence of Israel as a reality but formal recognition will only be considered when a Palestinian state has been created, the movement’s exiled leader Khaled Meshaal said on Wednesday.

Softening a previous refusal to accept the Jewish state’s existence, Meshaal said Israel was a “matter of fact” and a reality that will persist.

“There will remain a state called Israel,” Meshaal said in an interview in the Syrian capital, in what appeared to be clearest statement yet by the Islamist group on its attitude toward the state it previously said had no right to exist.

“The problem is not that there is an entity called Israel,” said Meshaal, who survived an Israeli assassination attempt in 1997. “The problem is that the Palestinian state is non-existent.”

xpost the thing upthread where people were talking about the annoying tendency to say that Israel is perpetrating A SECOND HOLOCAUST and OH HOW SHORT OUR MEMORIES ARE etc etc

I think if Hamas were more vocal about the above POV it would probably suffice

I mean this really is all semantics right now, and it's esp difficult for us to analyze because he doesn't speak English (just checked)

one of my pet peeves in high school english was when people overanalyzed a single word in a translated book. the csm article needs to have been written by an arabic speaker.

I definitely agree with the above, but my point is that regardless of precisely what the term is supposed to mean, it's basically used to accuse the Palestinians of thoughtcrime.

and then say "look, we obviously acknowledge that there is a country called Israel and we are willing to talk to it and see if we convince it to get off our land, but you're kidding yourself if you think we're going to say that it SHOULD be there"

There's also the question -- ideally, mostly mooted by the two-state solution -- of whether Israel's "right to exist" = "right to exist as a Jewish state in perpetuity". In other words, the difference between "the people who are there should stay there, and shouldn't be fucked with" vs. "the people who are there should stay there, shouldn't be fucked with, and have a right to pursue policies to ensure that their demographic maintains a solid majority".

(But then we get into the whole quagmire: is Israel like South Africa? Like most countries, many of which take measures to preserve their particular demographic? Somewhere in between? Under what circumstances is government intervention in these matters acceptable? If the Han Chinese had organically overrun Tibet, as opposed to being spurred on by the gov't, would that be more OK? etc. etc. etc.)

I think I'm accusing them of doublethink

http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/01/26/opinion/edatran.php?page=1

found the aforementioned article

the comments bit i thought was shocking was from the indie article btw

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/02/movies/02godard.html

But Mr. Ganis and others in the academy have fielded queries from members who question the propriety of an award that is drawing attention not just to Mr. Godard’s well-known disregard for Hollywood but also to positions and statements in which he has mingled his mistrust of the mainstream movie world with a wariness of traits he associates with Jews.

a "wariness of traits he associates with ________" is my new favorite euphemism and defense for racism.

which in this case seems bullshittish

In one of the more striking such statements, in a 1985 interview in Le Matin quoted in Richard Brody’s 2008 biography, Mr. Godard spoke of the film industry as being bound up in Jewish usury.

“What I find interesting in the cinema is that, from the beginning, there is the idea of debt,” he is quoted as saying. “The real producer is, all the same, the image of the Central European Jew.”

Between translation and lack of context, I'm not sure what's going on in this statement. But it seems strange to call out "debt" in filmmaking. Does he mean the idea that a film has investors who want to make money?

See Godard thread; Brody wrote in his New Yorker blog that NYT quotes were brief, w/out context and misleading.

whoa fuck one (1) godard

not reeeeaaaallly surprised that brody is standing up for his boy there

also not too surprised that a conservative-modernist euro intellectual is an anti-semite; more surprised that he gets shine on the left... oh no hang on that's not right is it?

http://www.cinema-scope.com/cs38/feat_krohn_brody.html

interestingly this long review bends over backwards to defend godard from the charges of anti-semitism (actually: documented instances of anti-semitism) in brody;s book. curiouser and curiouser.

DG, who are you, and have you ever seen a Godard film?

bulletin boards, fulla fucking rabble

Modish mid twentieth century anti-semitism, Ezra Pound style.

nice balance w/ Tarantino's racism and ILX's hatred of Christianity, anyhoo

doctor morbius, i'm the guy that created the board you are posting on, and yes i have - good films don't make people saints, cf roman 'i like drug raping children' polanski

no argument, i'm a fan of Jerry Lewis

per Brody, I really don't recall another filmmaker returning again and again to contemplation of the Holocaust in the way Godard has.

cf roman 'i like drug raping children' polanski

Oh, it's "children," huh. Your board is its father's child.

go fuck a 13 year old, see what the prosecutor thinks

I meant yr use of plural.

Now it aaallllllll makes sense.

I really don't recall another filmmaker returning again and again to contemplation of the Holocaust in the way Godard has.

― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, November 3, 2010 2:54 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark

ah, 'contemplation'. not really sure what to make of the strand in late godard, about the failure of hollywood bosses to 'film' and thereby prevent the holocaust. sounds like pretty typical godardian pseudo-intellectual bullshit to me. making 'night train to munich' and 'contraband' did not stop the battle of britain. but either way, godard is not much of an historian.

Modish mid twentieth century anti-semitism, Ezra Pound style.

― sandra lee, gimme your alcohol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, November 3, 2010 2:33 PM (31 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

'modish'? among whom? kind of sure that becoming il duce's hypeman wasn't widely regarded as an intelligent move. obviously a lot of lit crit has been about trying to rescue the reputations of the likes of pound.

come on DG he only drugraped *one* child

like you've never made a single mistake in your life

well apparently he created the board you're posting on

true :(

sad

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11960291

i have a 9-year old daughter attending a jewish parochial school (in coral gables (fla), not the uk). security is a constant concern. stories like this break my heart.

"Faith schools make a fantastic contribution to our education system and none more so than Jewish faith schools," Education Secretary Michael Gove said.

this was already happening, just now the govt takes the bill (which they ought to have done already) and of course it allows for such soundbites in support of the cross party consensus on 'faith schools'

the statistics cited there don't look good but i've never heard of a jewish school being attacked....you'd think the threat would be to kids going to/from school

it's sad that these concerns exist whether the govt foots the security bill or not

I remember when I was growing up we often had security guards posted at the Jewish day school. It's kinda terrifying when you're a kid.

The Jewish Free School in Camden Town always had security guards when I was a kid, and stepped it up pretty hard in 2001. They moved wayyy out of town soon after - still in London but, like, zone 4 - and ppl speculated that it was partly so they could build a more defensible school. (NB this was not the stated reason, which was more to do w/ the Jewish population of London living further north nowadays.)

I remember when I was growing up we often had security guards posted at the Jewish day school. It's kinda terrifying when you're a kid.

― Mordy, Thursday, 9 December 2010 17:24 (38 seconds ago)

this is why i wonder if it's a good thing....frightens the kids, inculcates a siege mentality at an impressionable age

i'd guess some of these schools have received threats from some bedroom jihadi types and ppl are understandably scared to death, so it has to be done

nonetheless i'd caution against thinking the uk is a few steps from kristallnacht (as alleged in an inflammatory documentary by racist troll richard littlejohn a few years ago)

it's not 1933 but i think you are being very glib

I don't think I could ever feel comfortable living in the UK because of historical anti-Semitism, even tho I'm sure it's much much better there today than say in 1190. Maybe because of a siege mentality.

things have improved a bit in 820 years to be fair

I don't think I could ever feel comfortable living in the UK because of historical bubonic plague tbh

Also not forgiven anybody for the Peasant's Revolt.

cautioning against glibness

these security concerns are nothing new, and probably won't go away any time soon

it's dreadful but the same concerns exist in france, america, etc

idk, on that logic i wouldn't want to be black in america

xposts to mordy

me neither!

these security concerns are nothing new, and probably won't go away any time soon

it's dreadful but the same concerns exist in france, america, etc

― nakhchivan, Thursday, December 9, 2010 5:47 PM (7 seconds ago) Bookmark

well, they're a little bit new. anti-semitic violence has gone up in the last decade.

holding up france as an example is not really going to clinch you much in an argument about anti-semitism!

xpost lol

I swear that the Synagogue in Hull which was in a fairly rough part of the city that I used to live in had a security guard outside when there were meetings. This was in the early 90s in what was an unusually white city for the UK at the time. Never knew why the guy was there tho.

Actually there were probably NF-type fuckwits around capable of violence.