Let's talk about Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman, and how unbelievably fucked up this all is

in case you're not feeling despair about the state of america you might want to try searching twitter for "fireworks" right now

― Guayaquil (eephus!), Sunday, July 14, 2013 4:07 AM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I was pretty sure I heard fireworks immediately after the verdict and thought it couldn't possibly be true, and then a friend from florida and a friend from Minnesota said they heard the same thing in their neighborhoods.

what kind of an idiot family whose last name is zimmerman would name one of their sons robert? they didn't know that one was taken?

You mean by Bob Dylan??? No, I would say they didn't know it was taken. Surely no more than 1% of the US population knows that "Robert Zimmerman" was Bob Dylan's birth name.

that can't be true. at least 96% of american households have a copy of hunky dory, in which bowie at addresses dylan as "robert zimmerman" on "song for dylan".

no wonder Robert Zimmerman became such fast friends with Gordon Sumner and Archibald Leach at school

there was never any legal complexity here

mmm, kinda was. not to pee on the outrage parade, i think it's gross that this dude gets off completely clean, but it's pretty hard to nail this dude down based on the rules of the game.

i say dude way too much.

GZ created a situation where a situation wasn't, and that situation resulted in the discharge of a sidearm that fatally injured an unarmed person. He was negligent from the get-go and a manslaughter conviction should've been a slam dunk.

But didn't the prosecutor go for murder rather than manslaughter? That's a much higher hurdle, because you need to prove intent, right? Zimmerman should be in jail right now, for manslaughter.

They were able to add a manslaughter charge before the jury was sent to deliberations.

I didn't follow the trial, but was that a last minute addition, or did they explain the case for manslaughter from the start? I just don't see how he could not be guilty of manslaughter. I mean, I do see, but I don't ... see.

Meanwhile: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57433184/fla-mom-gets-20-years-for-firing-warning-shots/

Media right now: "bla bla riot bla bla bla riot bla bla riot"

i'm glad IF trayvon got a few swings in before he was shot.

mods feel free to delete this post, if necessary.

Even though I'm not surprised, I'm really upset by this. both by the lack of justice for Trayvon, and the disgusting behaviors it's already prompted. and because I'm about 25 miles from it, I'm not likely to hear the end of it anytime soon.

I don't think I can say anything else about this atm.

i would wear a hoodie (with dress shirt and tie beneath) for the next week if it weren't summer. i know it's stupid. i just. want to. scream.

AAAAAAAAGGGGGGGHHGHHGHGHGHGHGHGHHHHHHHHH.

i guess it's just saturday night. but, i want this thread to clusterfuck with yelling and screaming and such. i hope you lot, which are not here, are pissed wherever you are (i know that a lot of you are finding out on tvs at bars, yr friends, etc.)

you are seriously the fucking worst

go troll for attention somewhere else, asshole

mookieproof otm

also can I just say thank you to everyone in this thread for the reminder that there are decent people that exist in this world.

Well, it's official, folks: murder is legal in the state of Florida.

Murder your own toddler, murder a neighbor's kid, murder everybody! It's a free for all!

*if you're white

GZ created a situation where a situation wasn't, and that situation resulted in the discharge of a sidearm that fatally injured an unarmed person. He was negligent from the get-go and a manslaughter conviction should've been a slam dunk.

otm. I don't think there was enough evidence to convict him of murder but my god there should've been enough for SOMETHING. so sad/angry that someone can do what GZ did in this country and not be punished whatsoever. the fact that some people are gloating/cheering over the decision is truly sickening.

Well, it's official, folks: murder is legal in the state of Florida.

― del griffith, Sunday, July 14, 2013 1:20 AM (39 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

basically. if you start a confrontation that escalates into a brawl, and then you shoot the other person dead, you should be alright. provided said other person is the only witness and you have demonstrable injuries (however minor) to attest to the brawl.

reminder to self: don't patronize any bars in florida.

i'd like to read a lawyer's, or someone smart at the NYer or something, take on the manslaughter charge

yeah when they introduced it (or rather when the judge allowed it), maybe it was too late? was the jury given instructions on what manslaughter entails?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-jury-asks-manslaughter-clarification/story?id=19657201

"May we please have clarification on the instructions regarding manslaughter," the jury wrote to Judge Debra Nelson this evening.

After consulting with the lawyers for both sides, the judge sent the jurors a reply that said the court cannot engage in "general discussions" on the charge, and added, "If you have a specific question please submit it."

i have nothing valuable to say about this but i'm sad tonight.

this is not bad i guess

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/07/law-and-justice-and-george-zimmerman/277772/

"May we please have clarification on the instructions regarding manslaughter," the jury wrote to Judge Debra Nelson this evening.
After consulting with the lawyers for both sides, the judge sent the jurors a reply that said the court cannot engage in "general discussions" on the charge, and added, "If you have a specific question please submit it."

isn't it a judge's job to clarify the description of a law or charge? at least to provide the statutory language?

was the reasonable doubt wrt to manslaughter GZ alleging that he was walking back to his car and Trayvon attacked him w/o provocation?

i think most lawyers agree that pressing for second degree murder was overreaching from the very beginning, done moreso for the sake of appearing to listen to public discourse rather than for legal feasibility

i think GZ murdered this kid. i also think TM was perfectly within his rights to start pummeling GZ in self-defense. i wouldn't have done that, but I'm a wuss that couldn't win a fistfight.

but as soon as TM did that, he effectively muddied the story. and that's probably why GZ was acquitted.

that's not to "blame" TM for his own death. but just to suggest the limitations of justice in a legal setting.

it's great that you think those things.

:/

"limitations of justice"

not a strike on you, but still a phrase worth emphasizing. fucking hell, tonight.

it's great that you think those things.

― circa1916, Sunday, July 14, 2013 2:47 AM (33 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i don't know who you are but you seem to be determined to be an ass tonight. brava.

o

i don't know who you are but you seem to be determined to be an ass tonight. brava.

i'm a lurker non-entity, but i've been drinking and you delivered some weirdly hysterical posts tonight that i couldn't resist jumping on. cheap. honestly nothing personal.

For whatever its worth the usual suspects organized a thing in DC that became 200+ drawn from bars etc stress testing cop car windows

We didn't seek out white folks to mess with even as they yelled HE WAS FUCKIN INNOCENT at us, so I suspect you won't hear much on it.

To be angry at this jury is to miss the point. Zimmerman moved relatively logically in a white supremacist system that marks all POC as suspect. The jury moved logically on a case built on circumstantial evidence operating in a society where otherness is criminalized. The question to my mind is whether this is a logic we continue to accept.

i don't know who you are but you seem to be determined to be an ass tonight. brava.

i'm a lurker non-entity, but i've been drinking and you delivered some weirdly hysterical posts tonight that i couldn't resist jumping on. cheap. honestly nothing personal.

― circa1916, Sunday, July 14, 2013 1:32 AM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

also drinking and i'm not scrolling up but for reasons i've reflected on when inebriated and not inebriated i can't resist joining an f u amateurist greek chorus.

xp HOOS so so so so so otm

Never been less happy to be OTM in a thread than in this case -- but the most important part of my most OTM post here: "h(o)ld the police accountable for garbage like this (and keep challenging Police Worship wherever you see it.)" has gotten lost in the initial reactions, and I hope (but kinda doubt) that that will change in the days to come.

agree w that

you can dance you can die having the time of your life see that girl watch that scene digging the dancing queen.

To be angry at this jury is to miss the point. Zimmerman moved relatively logically in a white supremacist system that marks all POC as suspect. The jury moved logically on a case built on circumstantial evidence operating in a society where otherness is criminalized. The question to my mind is whether this is a logic we continue to accept.

― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Sunday, July 14, 2013 3:42 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is essentially what i was saying. the case was narrowed in the courtroom to a few particulars that no one except the accused was in a place to verify. hence reasonable doubt. but "justice" was served only if you don't take into account the wider facts not just of the case but of american life.

no idea why i incensed anyone OTT. apparently there is a contingent here that enjoys hating me (or rather the ILX version of me)--for something i've posted in the past year, or for something from years ago, who knows? oh well...

the leaves are falling all around. time i was on my way. thanks to you, i'm much obliged. such a pleasant stay. but now it's time for me to go, the autumn moon lights my way. now i smell the rain, and with it pain, and it's heading my way.

sometimes i grow so tired. but i know one thing i got to do

Ta-Nehisi Coates.

Yeah, Coates is where I am at, but stops short of calling for pressure on the police, which I find frustrating.

i'd like to read a lawyer's, or someone smart at the NYer or something, take on the manslaughter charge

― k3vin k., Sunday, 14 July 2013 08:16 (4 hours ago)