Let's talk about Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman, and how unbelievably fucked up this all is

point being that "reasonable doubt," quite interestingly, is often a culturally and historically specific thing.

fwiw I had a very "above-it-all" take on OJ at the time, like "What gives you the right (white people who think he's guilty in particular) to give so much of a personal fuck about this trial?"

I still think there's something more deeply fucked up about how strongly a lot of white people reacted whether or not there was enough to find him guilty.

it was a perfect storm of American neuroses.

something for everyone.

Im remember being delighted by the murders, even before the not guilty verdict, cos im just that white and that guilty all the time. I hi fived a black guy for the first time ever that day, it was magical.

welp

I remember I was in 10th grade chemistry class when the verdict was announced, and everyone was pretty stoked

between o.j. and clinton the '90s really was the high water mark for celebrity trials.

Also, for subpoenaing celebrity penises.

subpoenising

OJ was more important to me for his role in the Naked Gun than for his football career

think of all the awesome memes that would have resulted if his trial had been like 10 years later!

lol @ people ever thinking OJ was innocent

the verdict of the oj civil trail coming down during clinton's sotu is maybe the most uber-90s memory i have behind seeing al gore say 'this november bill clinton is gonna be automatic for the people and george bush is gonna be out of time!' in a campaign speech in athens.

I still think there's something more deeply fucked up about how strongly a lot of white people reacted whether or not there was enough to find him guilty. fixed imo

Everywhere I've gone for the last few weeks--hospital waiting rooms, the bank, stores--the Zimmerman trial has been on tv and everyone stands quietly and watches every minute of it--it gives me some idea of what the OJ or King trails were like, which I pretty much barely even noticed when they happened. I'm fearful of the reaction to the verdict because it's going to hurt so many, many people. I wish we could all by force of will stop this terrible, sad, betraying thing.

What's strange is that this is exactly what I remember the OJ trial being like, but I only know the Zimmerman trial is happening only because of this thread and occasional mentions on Twitter.

remember reading somewhere that an often-overlooked reason OJ may have been acquitted is that a popular mis-understanding of what DNA evidence really *was* allowed a "reasonable doubt" that most jurys today, after 30 odd years of DNA permeating the culture in all kinds of ways and not least tv proceedurals, wouldn't have. don't really know how much water that holds (given shady Mark Fuhrman and all that) but it struck me as an interesting moment just before DNA was really a concept with some popular currency (a true "scientific" understanding of it notwithstanding).

― ryan yeah this is accurate, fuhrman may have sank the case regardless but there were a few jurors who in interviews inadvertantly admitted they just did not grasp dna at all, that's oj's blood was all over the crime scene didn't mean anything cuz hey that could be anybody's blood. so weird that barry scheck made his name here.

i remember being quietly mystified by the extreme racial polarization: the towering fury of white people at what seemed a predictable (if not an inevitable) outcome vs. the cheerful acceptance by black people of what seemed a tragic failure of justice. i wondered which side i should be on, morally, whether my relative disinterest somehow indicted me.

i was young (23) and quite naive.

seeing al gore say 'this november bill clinton is gonna be automatic for the people and george bush is gonna be out of time!' in a campaign speech in athens

no fuggin way

i hope he goes back to athens and points out that george w. bush was a monster and obama is part lies part heart part truth part garbage

There were not a lot of people back then making the argument that OJ didn't kill two people. The argument was usually that the state didn't prove that he did.

And for a lot of people, that was the first time they'd seen up close that people who commit crimes don't always get convicted. That alone is fairly polarizing to some people.

o i knew some ppl who totally thought oj had been framed, that they had gone after him the same way they'd gone after michael jackson.

yeah but like MJ you didn't see editorials making those arguments.

As is often said, if you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have neither on your side, pound the table.

if you like sausage in your butty, pound sterling

seeing al gore say 'this november bill clinton is gonna be automatic for the people and george bush is gonna be out of time!'

filled w/ a queer and indescribable emotion reading this

Lolling at the notion that today's juries understand DNA evidence any better. They don't -- Jerry Bruckheimer having taught them that it is infallible magic -- and these misunderstandings continue to lead to bad results.

"Meanwhile Ross Perot's gonna yell 'Achtung, baby'!"

Are these lyrics from the new Jay-Z joint?

ppl itt have some weird opinions on the OJ trial huh

OJ was acquitted solely on the basis of his stirring performance in the Naked Gun films

Here's another one: cops frame guilty people ALL THE TIME, and that's not ok.

a black man successfully navigating the system using his money suddenly made a whole bunch of previously apathetic people notice the flaws in our judicial system that had been there for years; HMM I WONDER WHY THAT WAS

booming post

Yeah, because no one was ever outraged at rich famous people getting off before OJ.

i'm having trouble thinking of other high-profile acquittals of rich, famous prior to OJ.

william kennedy smith? not famous in his own right but

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d8/Reversal_of_fortune_poster.jpg

Give me a fuckin break Josh

http://assets.rollingstone.com/assets/images/story/q-a-david-lee-roth-vents-about-van-halens-future-20130212/1000x600/dlr-600-1360694851.jpg

pretty sure that trial was televised too, Elmo. But I think ultimately OJ was way more famous, plus it was a grisly double murder so there was more attention paid.

also, have there been murmurs that cops (and the state) intentionally bumbled the Trayvon case?

xp

Anyway, not much murder, you're right. But I'm pretty sure this country was built on rich people getting acquitted of horrible things.

pretty sure

Yes, OJ Simpson created the popular concept of "rich people can buy their own justice," well done everyone.

lol you dopes

i think djp's post was just pointing to the fact that many white people who were previously unconcerned about the unfairness of the criminal justice system were suddenly outraged by the OJ verdict, and the fact might have something to do with race? idk, that's how I read it

iirc the reaction to the wm. k smith acquittal was something to the effect of *shrug* "he's a kennedy, what're you gonna do" and not widespread outrage that a white rapist wasn't found guilty

a black man successfully navigating the system using his money suddenly made a whole bunch of previously apathetic people notice the flaws in our judicial system that had been there for years; HMM I WONDER WHY THAT WAS

You're failing to recognize that hardworking white americans had been living in fear for years as black celebrities murdered their daughters and got away with it.

i mean i remember the big blue dot covering the plaintiff's face on the witness stand and all but i don't recall anyone decrying the judicial system as broken when he got off

Well no, and I agree with all of what you're saying re: the racial politics here. But certainly people had for years decried what Wm. Kennedy Smith's Uncle Ted was able to get away with just because he was rich.

xp i think the legal profession took the hit on that one. i vaguely remember the lawyers becoming a punchline (more so than usual) b/t Johnnie Cochran and the McDonalds hot coffee lawsuit. see: Jackie Chiles trying to get Krammer money for some ridiculous reason on Seinfeld. provided ample inspiration to go to law school for a young Spectrum.

Yeah, it was sort of a punchline (re: Kennedys, e legacy that began with Chappaquiddick).

Obviously I get the racial component of the OJ trial, but I think the Rodney King verdict was much more tragic and educational in exploring in underscoring systemic flaws and racism. My personal reaction to OJ, best I can recall, was based on his status as a rich celebrity (and star of the Naked Gun series). My reaction to the Rodney King verdict was disgust and anger.

Like, there was a guy, writing on the ground, getting repeatedly beaten, on camera. And it wasn't enough.