Let's talk about Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman, and how unbelievably fucked up this all is

xp Huh. I never knew that.

there was a grotesque response around here (don't think I even need to say why), buncha white people talking about rioting. Yes, Whites, let us all assemble and riot in protest of the famous Black football player who was acquitted by a jury of his peers because you believe he killed a white woman that none of y'all had heard of or gave a fuck about prior to the trial, one who will become the butt of Dave Chappelle jokes that you will laugh at ten years later.

(i mean fwiw I thought he was guilty as hell but come on fuck on, ppl)

I still think its bad to kill people who I haven't heard of actually

it is, just pointin out how full of shit those 'let's riot' folk were

I thought then and still think now he's guilty, but rich people more often than not evade justice and it was about time a rich black man could benefit. That a guilty man was found not guilty hardly raised an eyebrow.

rich people generally do not commit murder

YOU'VE never watched soap operas!

xxxpost yeah, there was this dude I knew who tried to seriously argue with me for weeks that the only reason O.J. got off for murder was race. I didn't even bother pulling out the statistics reflecting that minorities are on average punished more harshly because he really seemed to believe that O.J. got let go because clearly what history has taught us is that juries never successfully prosecute minorities for murder

OJ winning at the criminal trial ("beyond a reasonable doubt") and getting hammered at the civil trial ("by a preponderance of the evidence") was EXACTLY how the cases should have turned out. Was watching them closely because Harvard LOL School.

^^^ agreed (only without the Harvard LOL School connection)

Wow, reading your posts, the american justice system is really fucked up, huh? I was a kid at the time, and in Europe, so I don't remember anybody giving a damn. I'm actually a bit shocked reading about your responses, it's been filtered through pop-culture so thoroughly that it's always been like some sick joke for me.

between o.j. and clinton the '90s really was the high water mark for celebrity trials.

i kinda felt the way you did, in orbit: obv the dude was clearly guilty, why are people pleased that he got away???

now i realize that this:
OJ winning at the criminal trial ("beyond a reasonable doubt") and getting hammered at the civil trial ("by a preponderance of the evidence") was EXACTLY how the cases should have turned out. Was watching them closely because Harvard LOL School.

― Three Word Username, Thursday, July 11, 2013 4:32 PM (26 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

is pretty otm

i remember reading somewhere that an often-overlooked reason OJ may have been acquitted is that a popular mis-understanding of what DNA evidence really *was* allowed a "reasonable doubt" that most jurys today, after 30 odd years of DNA permeating the culture in all kinds of ways and not least tv proceedurals, wouldn't have. don't really know how much water that holds (given shady Mark Fuhrman and all that) but it struck me as an interesting moment just before DNA was really a concept with some popular currency (a true "scientific" understanding of it notwithstanding).

point being that "reasonable doubt," quite interestingly, is often a culturally and historically specific thing.

fwiw I had a very "above-it-all" take on OJ at the time, like "What gives you the right (white people who think he's guilty in particular) to give so much of a personal fuck about this trial?"

I still think there's something more deeply fucked up about how strongly a lot of white people reacted whether or not there was enough to find him guilty.

it was a perfect storm of American neuroses.

something for everyone.

Im remember being delighted by the murders, even before the not guilty verdict, cos im just that white and that guilty all the time. I hi fived a black guy for the first time ever that day, it was magical.

welp

I remember I was in 10th grade chemistry class when the verdict was announced, and everyone was pretty stoked

between o.j. and clinton the '90s really was the high water mark for celebrity trials.

Also, for subpoenaing celebrity penises.

subpoenising

OJ was more important to me for his role in the Naked Gun than for his football career

think of all the awesome memes that would have resulted if his trial had been like 10 years later!

lol @ people ever thinking OJ was innocent

the verdict of the oj civil trail coming down during clinton's sotu is maybe the most uber-90s memory i have behind seeing al gore say 'this november bill clinton is gonna be automatic for the people and george bush is gonna be out of time!' in a campaign speech in athens.

I still think there's something more deeply fucked up about how strongly a lot of white people reacted whether or not there was enough to find him guilty. fixed imo

Everywhere I've gone for the last few weeks--hospital waiting rooms, the bank, stores--the Zimmerman trial has been on tv and everyone stands quietly and watches every minute of it--it gives me some idea of what the OJ or King trails were like, which I pretty much barely even noticed when they happened. I'm fearful of the reaction to the verdict because it's going to hurt so many, many people. I wish we could all by force of will stop this terrible, sad, betraying thing.

What's strange is that this is exactly what I remember the OJ trial being like, but I only know the Zimmerman trial is happening only because of this thread and occasional mentions on Twitter.

remember reading somewhere that an often-overlooked reason OJ may have been acquitted is that a popular mis-understanding of what DNA evidence really *was* allowed a "reasonable doubt" that most jurys today, after 30 odd years of DNA permeating the culture in all kinds of ways and not least tv proceedurals, wouldn't have. don't really know how much water that holds (given shady Mark Fuhrman and all that) but it struck me as an interesting moment just before DNA was really a concept with some popular currency (a true "scientific" understanding of it notwithstanding).

― ryan yeah this is accurate, fuhrman may have sank the case regardless but there were a few jurors who in interviews inadvertantly admitted they just did not grasp dna at all, that's oj's blood was all over the crime scene didn't mean anything cuz hey that could be anybody's blood. so weird that barry scheck made his name here.

i remember being quietly mystified by the extreme racial polarization: the towering fury of white people at what seemed a predictable (if not an inevitable) outcome vs. the cheerful acceptance by black people of what seemed a tragic failure of justice. i wondered which side i should be on, morally, whether my relative disinterest somehow indicted me.

i was young (23) and quite naive.

seeing al gore say 'this november bill clinton is gonna be automatic for the people and george bush is gonna be out of time!' in a campaign speech in athens

no fuggin way

i hope he goes back to athens and points out that george w. bush was a monster and obama is part lies part heart part truth part garbage

There were not a lot of people back then making the argument that OJ didn't kill two people. The argument was usually that the state didn't prove that he did.

And for a lot of people, that was the first time they'd seen up close that people who commit crimes don't always get convicted. That alone is fairly polarizing to some people.

o i knew some ppl who totally thought oj had been framed, that they had gone after him the same way they'd gone after michael jackson.

yeah but like MJ you didn't see editorials making those arguments.

As is often said, if you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have neither on your side, pound the table.

if you like sausage in your butty, pound sterling

seeing al gore say 'this november bill clinton is gonna be automatic for the people and george bush is gonna be out of time!'

filled w/ a queer and indescribable emotion reading this

Lolling at the notion that today's juries understand DNA evidence any better. They don't -- Jerry Bruckheimer having taught them that it is infallible magic -- and these misunderstandings continue to lead to bad results.

"Meanwhile Ross Perot's gonna yell 'Achtung, baby'!"

Are these lyrics from the new Jay-Z joint?

ppl itt have some weird opinions on the OJ trial huh

OJ was acquitted solely on the basis of his stirring performance in the Naked Gun films

Here's another one: cops frame guilty people ALL THE TIME, and that's not ok.

a black man successfully navigating the system using his money suddenly made a whole bunch of previously apathetic people notice the flaws in our judicial system that had been there for years; HMM I WONDER WHY THAT WAS

booming post

Yeah, because no one was ever outraged at rich famous people getting off before OJ.

i'm having trouble thinking of other high-profile acquittals of rich, famous prior to OJ.

william kennedy smith? not famous in his own right but

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d8/Reversal_of_fortune_poster.jpg