The ILC Favourite Characters Of All Time

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I think I thought Judge Dredd was a goodie at 12.

chap who would dare to contain two ingredients. Tea and bags. (chap), Friday, 29 September 2006 10:43 (seventeen years ago) link

QFT is pronounced "quiffed".

Young Fresh Danny D (Dan Perry), Friday, 29 September 2006 11:59 (seventeen years ago) link

It is worth remembering that almost everything Blount says on ILC is for the express intent of annoying Tuomas.

18. Scrooge McDuck (Uncle Scrooge)

(134 points)

ihttp://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/archives/mcduck.gif

There was a sober, stoic quality to Carl Barks'
stories and artwork that reached its ultimate
expression in the brisk, no-nonsense character of
Scrooge. Initially a cartoonish miser in the mold of
his Dickens namesake, Scrooge eventually evolved into
a remarkably original character – a modern version of
that classic American archetype, the self-made man. He
made his fortune, he says, by "being tougher than the
toughies, and smarter than the smarties – and I made
it SQUARE!"
(Justyn)

His Scrooge can be greedy as hell, but ultimately Scrooge always chooses his fellow beings before money - witness the tear-jerking story where he's willing to give up everything he owns to save his beloved sled dog from drowning. (Tuomas)

Best moment: Rolling around in his money bin. (d a simpson)

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 29 September 2006 14:22 (seventeen years ago) link

Grr.

http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/archives/mcduck.gif

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 29 September 2006 14:22 (seventeen years ago) link

It was such a rip-off when I finally realised that actually swimming in a pool of coins would be, you know, ouch (this was sometime before I realised that superheroes are all fascist nutjobs.)

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Friday, 29 September 2006 14:36 (seventeen years ago) link

It was such a rip-off when I finally realised that actually swimming in a pool of coins would be, you know, ouch

This is actually a part of the plot in one of Barks' stories - the Beagle Boys have robbed Scrooge's money, and he asks for one last swim. Seeing Scrooge bathe in the money, the Beagle Boys want to do that as well, and jump into the pile of coins, only to hit their heads and lose their consciousness. Then they're arrested, and Scrooge reveals that only he can actually swim in money, after years of practice.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 29 September 2006 18:31 (seventeen years ago) link

http://cvtw.batcave.net/images/misc059.jpg

Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 29 September 2006 18:43 (seventeen years ago) link

Marmaduke Explained

Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 2 October 2006 19:20 (seventeen years ago) link

I just changed my name, or I'd switch up to "Marmaduke is Being Cock-Blocked."

It's the lazy and immoral way to become super hip. (Austin, Still), Monday, 2 October 2006 20:51 (seventeen years ago) link

i love the barks's gizmo gearloose stories.

disappointing goth fest line-up (orion), Monday, 2 October 2006 20:52 (seventeen years ago) link

I've never actually read Marmaduke until now. It's unbelievably poor.

chap who would dare to contain two ingredients. Tea and bags. (chap), Monday, 2 October 2006 21:00 (seventeen years ago) link

you're fucking crazy

j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 2 October 2006 23:01 (seventeen years ago) link

the drawing in those blog examples was really nice

occasional mongrel (kit brash), Tuesday, 3 October 2006 02:59 (seventeen years ago) link

blount's casual marmaduke references are my favorite thing about ilc

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Tuesday, 3 October 2006 06:42 (seventeen years ago) link

17. Bizarro (Superman etc.)

(136 points)

http://flakmag.com/books/images/bizarro.jpg

A silverage foe of Superman which shares with Braniac the distinction of unobtrusively slipping into mainstream vocabulary.

"Me hate Bizarro. Bizarro am most useless example of uncreativity of Silver Age. Bizarro am joke that am alway get serious. Best Moment: "Bizarro Creates a Monster!", Adventure Comics #292, Jan 62. By Jerry Siegel and John Forte." (Huk-L)

I'm sure everyone's been Bizarro once or twice as a kid. The idea "what if we did everything exactly the other way around than how we usually do it?" and the increasingly convoluted logic that springs from this are staples of childhood imagination. But the sheer genius audacity of applying this concept to fiction – how could you not love that? Comic books do "WTF" better than most any other medium – what in literature might seem slappeable, and on film mannered, could so often be saved by inserting it into the colourful, intrinsically bizarre medium of comics. And no one does WTF better than Bizarro (Daniel RF)

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 17 October 2006 05:20 (seventeen years ago) link

I have only a vague childhood memories of Bizarro comics... Were they deleted when Superman was revamped?

Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 05:46 (seventeen years ago) link

Simple answer, no.
More complex answer, yes.

Alan Moore killed off Bizarro immediately pre-Crisis, and Htrae was removed from continuity during the Crisis. Since then, however, there have been two Bizarros in DC Continuity - the one created by LexCorp and the one created by the Joker using Mr Mxyzptlk's powers. Since the first LexCorp Bizarro appeared in 1986 (i.e. the same year as the Crisis) there's an argument that can be made that he nearly appreciably left continuity.

Of course, he's most recently been associated with Bizarro Comics and Bizarro world. Collections of non-hero superhero stories by indie authors - I would have thought they would have been exactly your sort of thing?

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 08:41 (seventeen years ago) link

How did he kill him, I thought I'd seen most of Moore's DC work but I can't remember?

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 09:26 (seventeen years ago) link

Wikipedia helpfully has this:

In Superman #423 & Action Comics #583, Alan Moore wrote the final Superman story for the Pre-Crisis era (though subsequent writers have retconned it into being an alternate reality). In the beginning of Superman #423, Superman had his final encounter with Bizarro, who had gone on a killing spree.

Superman had been off the Earth, doing research for the government. When he returned, he found complete city blocks horribly destroyed, and was told Bizarro had gone berserk, smashing buildings and injuring innocent people.

Confronted by Superman, Bizarro told him, "This am part of genius Bizarro self-improvement plan." Bizarro tells Superman that he had destroyed Bizarro world, as Krypton had been destroyed.


The death of Bizarro. Art from Superman #423 (Sept 1986), by Curt Swan."Bizarro? Come on out and show yourself! I want an explanation for this!"
"Ha! That easy! It am part of genius Bizarro self-improvement plan! See, me suddenly realize that me am not perfect imperfect duplicate! Maybe me not trying hard enough. Example: when your planet Krypton blow up by accident, you am coming to Earth as baby... so me decide to blow up whole Bizarro world on purpose and come to Earth as adult!"
"The Bizarro World? Blown up?!"
"Th-that's right! Ha ha! Pretty imperfect, huh?"
"Bizarro... what's happened to you? I can't believe you've really destroyed your homeworld!"
"Ha! That am only the beginning! Next, me realize that Superman never kill, so me kill lots of people! Them very grateful! Scream with happiness!"
"Killed people? Oh, merciful Rao..."
"...But then me finally understand what me need to be perfect imperfect duplicate: it am little Blue Kryptonite meteor that me carry in lead case for good luck!"
Bizarro holds the Blue Kryptonite before him.
"See... you am alive Superman... and if me am perfect imperfect duplicate, then me have to be... h-have to be..."
Bizarro staggers and collapses to the floor.
"Bizarro!"
"Uh... everything, him go d-dark... Hello, Superman. Hello."
Bizarro dies.

Not much later, Superman's secret identity was exposed and all the members of his rogues gallery attempt to kill him and everyone associated with him. Superman later discovers that Mr. Mxyzptlk is the villain orchestrating the attacks, and was most likely also the one responsible for Bizarro's strange behavior.

and a page that looks like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Bizarrodeath.PNG


FWIW, I barely remember it either and it never appears as part of Moore DC collections.

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 10:05 (seventeen years ago) link

Wait, that's just "Whatever happened to the man of tomorrow?", isn't it? I never got the impression that it was even remotely continuity.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 10:37 (seventeen years ago) link

Doesn't it say somewhere "This is an imaginary story, but aren't they all?" at the beginning? Although I may have imagined that..

Stone Monkey (Stone Monkey), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 10:49 (seventeen years ago) link

Noyes, it definitely does.

Aldo's point remains, though - dead or not dead, there's no silver-age Bizarro any more.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 11:29 (seventeen years ago) link

in no way is "whatever happened to the man of tomorrow" canon.

I believe that the story appears in the second edition of Across the Universe: the DC Universe Stories of Alan Moore, the one with the Brian Bolland cover.

There's an episode of Superman, the Animated Series, that focuses on Bizarro. Excellent, but not as good as the one what has Gilbert Gottfried as Mr Mxyptlyk.

veronica moser (veronica moser), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 11:38 (seventeen years ago) link

Duh! It's pre-Crisis, nothing's canon, it all got rewritten

occasional mongrel (kit brash), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 12:07 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, but the Superman that went into Crisis had a backstory and this wasn't it. So it was never canon, for what it's worth (kill me now).

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 13:10 (seventeen years ago) link

the entire point of the story was that it was a meta homage to Weisinger/Schwartz era: all Elastic Lad/Insect Queen kinda stuff that was by no means emphasized in the immediate pre-Crisis era.

sissy boy that i am, I wept while re-reading the story in the mid-90s.

veronica moser (veronica moser), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 13:29 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh man the Superman TAS episode on Bizarro was FANTASTIC.

THIS IS MY CONTRIBUTION TO DC DISCUSSION.

Jessie the Monster (scarymonsterrr), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 15:11 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah 'zactly - there really was no canon by the standard of the times - the WGBS Supes had overwritten the Weisinger Supes, like the Weisinger Supes had overwritten the commie-busting Supes, etc. Siegel over-writing his own OG origin with Superboy, case in point.

Plus it was specifically written immediately pre-Crisis so that it would be written out the next month obv.

("the times" - it actually happens MUCH MORE these days but they think there's such a thing as canon now!)

occasional mongrel (kit brash), Wednesday, 18 October 2006 20:31 (seventeen years ago) link

15(tie). Hopey Glass

(137 points)

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/9923/hopey.gif

Dark-haired, bitchy, full of herself and utterly
magnetic – was Hopey an older version of Lucy?
(Justyn)

I had an only half-joking crush on Hopey Glass in Love&Rockets — despite my Grate Critic's Brane being perfectly aware that she is nothing if not a Comicbook- Device-by-Which-to-Produce-Pash-in-the- Punky-Fanboy — which I then managed to transfer into a non-joking crush on an extremely Hopey-like friend, with DISASTROUS consequences. crushes on the Hopey-like in Real Life: DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME KIDS!! THEY ARE ALL AS MAD AS MAD JACK McMAD!! (mark s)

Greatest moment: "Hay's for horses, ass-bite!" (Douglas Wolk)

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 20 October 2006 10:33 (seventeen years ago) link

15(tie). Judge Dredd (2000ad)

(137 points)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0e/Judge_dredd.png

The flagship character for the galaxy's greatest comic, a not entirely subtle parody of the Thatcherite police state that survived that and a lot else over the last 30 years. I've never been that fond of the big epics, but the little done-in-ones where he ends up arrseting everyone are fantastic.

The greatest comment ever on the fascist overtones of the fantasy of the costumed hero. (Douglas Wolk)

Like Batman, Dredd is good because of his world, not himself (Pete Baran)

Greatest moment: Too many to count. Dredd's worst day under John
Wagner is better than 80% of other comics.
(Vic Fluro)

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 20 October 2006 10:54 (seventeen years ago) link

Bah, poxy HTML skills.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 20 October 2006 10:55 (seventeen years ago) link

What these two characters have in common is that they and their worlds have aged in something close to real time - for an action comic with a central hero this is REALLY REALLY unusual (Dredd, Prince Valiant and...?). I think Dredd may be more faithful to this than Love and Rockets actually.

Tom (Groke), Friday, 20 October 2006 11:57 (seventeen years ago) link

What, Dredd is in his fifties now?

Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 20 October 2006 12:28 (seventeen years ago) link

He's between 60 and 70 I think. He's had several bits replaced too (his eyes have been bionic since 1985)

Obviously future technology means that the ageing in real time is a bit of a cheat - active lifespan can be as long as the writers need it to be - but definitely Dredd's role in the stories has shifted: he's more of a planner than an action man, and he's gone from being the best Judge of an upcoming generation to a living legend with a mildly anti-system aura - his repeated refusal to become Chief Judge, for instance. There's a younger Judge Dredd running around too, of course - the second Rico (I think).

I don't think Wagner planned any of this at all, of course, but because he's been the main scripter for so long he's been able to steer the ship in mostly sensible directions, and the result is a strip and character of surprising depth when taken as a 30-year ongoing whole! (Probably closer to some of the European single character strips, like Tuomas' favourite Corto Maltese!)

Tom (Groke), Friday, 20 October 2006 12:36 (seventeen years ago) link

From Wikipedia:

"As the strip occurs in real time, Dredd is currently more than sixty years old. However, his vitality is explained in the context of the stories with allusions to rejuvenation treatments. Recently, characters in the comic have mentioned that Dredd is not as young and fit as he used to be.

Joe is nicknamed "Old Stoneyface", a name he apparently acquired while still a cadet. More recently, he has become known as the "Old Man"; though not confirmed, Joe is likely the oldest Judge still on active street duty."

Tom (Groke), Friday, 20 October 2006 12:40 (seventeen years ago) link

Hmm, Corto Maltese is actually the only European comic character who did age - though it's a bit different, because the stories aren't in chronological order, and he never gets that old (according to another comic by Pratt he disappears during the Spanish Civil War, but the actual Corto stories never go beyond the 1920s). Monsieur Jean by Dupuy and Berberian does seem to age with time too, it's interesting to see if they're going to continue the trend.

The idea of a comic book character who ages through the years is very interesting, but it's better fitted for character who have their own monthly comic books, which isn't the case with most European or indie comics. It's a pity so few superhero/action comic publishers have even tried the idea.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 20 October 2006 12:51 (seventeen years ago) link

I think with Dredd it happened almost by accident - I'm sure nobody thought he'd last 30 years. It's only become a selling point in the last 10 years or so - when I was first reading Dredd in the mid-80s there was no stress laid on the 'real time' element at all. (And of course the comic doesn't take place one week at a time).

Tom (Groke), Friday, 20 October 2006 12:54 (seventeen years ago) link

Not that any does. In fact, I'd think that the largely encapsulated nature of non-cliffhanger comics would make them a better fit for this.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 20 October 2006 12:57 (seventeen years ago) link

Comic where protagonist ages in real time: American Splendor?

Tom (Groke), Friday, 20 October 2006 13:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Jaime's stories are definitely happening in real time, pretty much--Maggie & Hopey are both convincingly 40 or so at this point (Hopey's starting to get some lines in her face, & recently got a new pair of glasses). Here's the definitive Jaime chronology: http://www.zompist.com/loveroc1.html

Note, though, that "Day By Day With Hopey" started in late 2004, ended in the most recent issue, and takes place over the course of a week...

Douglas (Douglas), Friday, 20 October 2006 13:25 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm not sure if I am being nice/nasty to Dredd or Batman there, but I still agree with it (though clearly they are characters of their respective worlds, created by them).

Pete (Pete), Friday, 20 October 2006 15:34 (seventeen years ago) link

Dredd's line in sarcastic humour and occaisonal moral doubts make him more than just a cypher though. Anyway, I'm pleased he beat Superman.

chap who would dare to welcome our new stingray masters (chap), Friday, 20 October 2006 16:05 (seventeen years ago) link

Not that any does

Um, apart from 52, you berk.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 20 October 2006 16:43 (seventeen years ago) link

Aw, Zompist!

Casuistry (Chris P), Friday, 20 October 2006 18:17 (seventeen years ago) link

Maggie also noted her birthday in the New York Times serial this year

occasional mongrel (kit brash), Saturday, 21 October 2006 03:38 (seventeen years ago) link

14. Linus Van Pelt

(154 points)

http://basketbhall.blogsome.com/images/meet_linus_big.gif

Linus's recitation from the Bible in the 1965
Christmas special remains the most moving minute of
television ever. It's hard to know what to add to
that.
(Justyn)

Indeed.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 23 October 2006 10:06 (seventeen years ago) link

By which I mean that like many non-Americans, Peanut's fame is completely mysterious to me. Could anyone give me five words to describe Linus? NB 'piano' is not allowed.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 23 October 2006 10:18 (seventeen years ago) link

*Peanuts'

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 23 October 2006 10:18 (seventeen years ago) link

This non-American discovered Peanuts young, through an uncle's collections. It's been a while, but IIRC the key to Linus is that he's the philosophical, optimistic balance to his dominating, grouchy older sister Lucy and the alternately despairing and unwarrantedly optimistic Charlie Brown. But his contented nature is undercut in the eyes of the readers by the fact that he's the kid who sucks his thumb and carries a security blanket, so how much faith are you going to put in his comforting aphorisms?
Okay, that's more words than you asked for. Pick five you like.

Ray (Ray), Monday, 23 October 2006 10:35 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, I've read Peanuts since I was kid too, but I never found Linus as memorable as Lucy or Snoopy or Charlie Brown. It's been ages since I reread that stuff though.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 23 October 2006 10:56 (seventeen years ago) link


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