fuck you if you dont have #teamsnowden stickers on yr laptop right now
― Nilmar Honorato da Silva, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 23:23 (ten years ago) link
idk if snowden was naive about the ruthless american war machine hunting him down, but i think maybe he was naive about the stability of the current world order - i think he's surprised to find out that the united states has the pull that it does
― Mordy , Tuesday, 2 July 2013 23:26 (ten years ago) link
that 'eva' morales was of course from the fine subs at the guardian
― Nilmar Honorato da Silva, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 23:30 (ten years ago) link
i think he's surprised to find out that the united states has the pull that it does
Massive irony in dude leaking proof of US omniscience taken by surprise by scope and reach of US power.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 00:17 (ten years ago) link
"Yeah, I knew they were recording and spying on countless phone calls and stuff, but who would have guessed they'd have so much away with their treaty-bound diplomatic allies?"
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 00:19 (ten years ago) link
Schumer is still under the illusion that the US has as much power in the world as it had in the Sixties. He's living in the past, mahnnn.
― Le Bateau Ivre
― balls, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 00:21 (ten years ago) link
josh i look forward to your guide on evading us hegemony after leaking top secret documents
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 05:10 (ten years ago) link
whenever you make the time
when the dn changes to Josh in Bolivia, you will know he made the time
― Sufjan Grafton, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 05:20 (ten years ago) link
Snowden reminds me a lot of guys you would see at hacker conventions in the early 90s - the corporate cyberpunks who talked a big game about how one day they were going take on the system and defeat Big Brother like it was a James Bond story. I think Snowden thought that the reveal itself would give him don't-kill-the-messenger immunity but he badly underestimated just how ruthless this type of Power operates - you would think the house in Hawaii, the high-paying job, and the dancing exhibitionist girlfriend would be a tip off. It works in organized crime.
― Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 05:52 (ten years ago) link
i mean i cant read the guys mind who knows but i think yeah there's a decent chance he thought this would be like the end of a movie where he spills the beans and the corrupt gov't can no longer touch him because all its avatars are being prosecuted or hounded from office or whatever. and therefore underestimated not just US ruthlessness but the extent to which people care, or want to know, the revelations. (or OTOH the extent to which people *already knew* what his documents revealed
― max, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 10:39 (ten years ago) link
)
Awful lot of mind reading here!
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 11:03 (ten years ago) link
yeah I'm thinking he anticipated some of this could happen
― playwright Greg Marlowe, secretly in love with Mary (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 11:34 (ten years ago) link
"We cannot offer you asylum because we just found out that the Americans have bugged our entire government. Your case means nothing to us."
― Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 11:37 (ten years ago) link
neway i found this about as infuriating as any of the stuff that snowden revealed, the pathetic way euro countries treated evo morales and his plane http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/04/world/snowden.html?hp
― max, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 11:42 (ten years ago) link
certainly Obama's remark – not sending fighter jets after a hacker – makes sense. He had other means of persuasion.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 11:56 (ten years ago) link
Like I said, the first step, retroactively, was to evade US hegemony before leaking docs.
I suppose the catch is finding asylum without it looking like some quid pro quo secrets-for-safe-haven trade. There's asylum, and then there's ... defection? But wtf does this guy care? He's not coming back here on his own. I don't know if that makes him brave or a coward that he's not willing to go full-martyr, but he's burned his bridges already.
Anyway, watch this: fly to Mexico on a vacation, fly to Cuba. Stay there. US hegemony: evaded! But at this point, post-leak, hornet nest -shaking, he's pretty screwed if he wants to live out the rest of his life in anything close to comfort. But he claims to have thought of that, per his initial comments, so who cares.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 13:42 (ten years ago) link
https://gist.github.com/anonymous/5917093
― Allen (etaeoe), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 13:56 (ten years ago) link
huh that's interesting
― goole, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 14:48 (ten years ago) link
I'm not a big fan of Big Brother government, but if there's anything a gov seems to be justified in going to the ends of the earth to achieve, it's catching a former employee who not only has leaked ample state secrets, threatened to leak more, fled the country in search of sanctuary and thumbed his nose at the US the whole time. Is it it any wonder no one wants this particular hot potato?
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 15:27 (ten years ago) link
justified in their eyes, yeah.
― playwright Greg Marlowe, secretly in love with Mary (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 15:30 (ten years ago) link
That's just silly. You can disagree with it, but there's really no way to defend it as unjustified. It'd be like if a guy robs a bank and flees the country and boasts about it and you being all, that's cool, well played. It's not like the US is sending out the drones to blow up Snowden family weddings.
Yet.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 15:43 (ten years ago) link
but dude robbed a bank to treat his sick aunt...who is president of that very bank!
― Sufjan Grafton, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 15:48 (ten years ago) link
the USG is a morally unjustifiable entity, but i'm not saying more with them watching, y'know
― playwright Greg Marlowe, secretly in love with Mary (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 15:49 (ten years ago) link
saying more would be a bit like pissing into the ocean at this point, no?
― Sufjan Grafton, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 15:51 (ten years ago) link
prism consists of google, facebook, apple, twitter and ilx
― iatee, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 15:51 (ten years ago) link
Obama has access to ALL your posts even the ones in 77
― iatee, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 15:52 (ten years ago) link
Aybe-May ecan-may alk-tay in ode-cay?
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 15:52 (ten years ago) link
but dude robbed a bank to treat his sick aunt...who is president of that very bank!― Sufjan Grafton, Wednesday, July 3, 2013 11:48 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Sufjan Grafton, Wednesday, July 3, 2013 11:48 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Is that a movie?
― how's life, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 15:53 (ten years ago) link
it's a mountain dew commercial. his aunt is 'sick' in the sense that she does indy nosebones
― Sufjan Grafton, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 15:56 (ten years ago) link
lol
― how's life, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 15:57 (ten years ago) link
It'd be like if a guy robs a bank and flees the country and boasts about it and you being all, that's cool, well played
i mean i get what you're saying, even if i disagree, but this is sort of a poor analogy
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 3 July 2013 16:02 (ten years ago) link
I'll concede that.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 16:04 (ten years ago) link
― iatee, Wednesday, July 3, 2013 3:52 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
aw hell
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 16:07 (ten years ago) link
lol we couldn't even keep 77 posts from leaking to BCO, of course the government has them
― big black nemesis, Puya chilensis (DJP), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 16:26 (ten years ago) link
haha that was a joke ftr?
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 16:28 (ten years ago) link
they've had access to 77 from the start, el tomboto was like the first person invited
― Romantic style in da world (crüt), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 16:32 (ten years ago) link
crut how could you do this to us
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 16:55 (ten years ago) link
Evo Morales is, with a stopover in Gran Canaria, now on the way home. But the involuntary stopover in Vienna Bolivian President leaves considerable repercussions. And questions, the answers are hidden in the false bottoms possibly that are standard in the diplomatic interiors.
i really enjoy google translate sometimes
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 17:20 (ten years ago) link
@MartinxHodgson Obama "not scrambling jets" to find #Snowden. Merely closing down European airspace and detaining a president!
Morales said Bolivia had not received a formal application for asylum from Snowden yet, but hinted it would consider any request favourably.
"If there were a request, of course we would be willing to debate and consider the idea," Morales told RT Actualidad, the Spanish-language service of Russian broadcaster RT.
"I know that the empires have an espionage network and are against the so-called developing countries. And in particular, against those which are rich in natural resources," he added.
His comments were echoed by favourable noises from Venezuela, another possible exit route for the former NSA contractor. President Nicolás Maduro said Caracas was also ready to consider Snowden's asylum should he ask for it.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/03/edward-snowden-bolivia-plane-vienna
― playwright Greg Marlowe, secretly in love with Mary (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 18:15 (ten years ago) link
Not scrambling jets, just searching the jet of another country's president
Amid a growing diplomatic storm, the Bolivian president, Evo Morales, has been allowed to fly out of Vienna, but only after a 12-hour interruption during which his plane was stopped and searched for the whistleblower Edward Snowden.
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 18:35 (ten years ago) link
tho obv i'm in the free eddie camp there's a part of me that's coming around to the notion that turning himself in would be the fastest way to make this story about spying again instead of about the spy
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 18:40 (ten years ago) link
wondering how many liberals in '71 were rushing to compare dan ellsberg to a bank robber
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 18:42 (ten years ago) link
get him away from the people who want to use him at WL to keep gasping at relevance, away from the politicians that want to make him an accidental anti-imperialist mascot...but then, the alternative is how many years of solitary before a trial that would see him dismantled xp
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 18:43 (ten years ago) link
It's not like the US is sending out the drones to blow up Snowden family weddings.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, July 3, 2013 3:43 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah they'd never kill an american who said some treasonous shit that aided the enemy and maybe his family for being in the wrong place at the wrong time amirite
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 18:44 (ten years ago) link
idk if this matters but my understanding of the pentagon papers was that, while classified, they didn't contain anything the public didn't already know from various news sources about what had happened in vietnam -- what the PP showed was that the pentagon itself knew how useless and hopeless the situation was, and had known for years (right?)
also when ellsberg leaked them he didn't have a bradley manning figure being put in solitary w/o charge for months previously...
― goole, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 18:52 (ten years ago) link
oddly, i remember my journalism professor in college saying basically the same thing -- that the PP were no big deal and nixon (being nixon) just went beserk for no reason. but according to wiki:
The Papers revealed that the U.S. had expanded its war with bombing of Cambodia and Laos, coastal raids on North Vietnam, and Marine Corps attacks, none of which had been reported by media in the US. The most damaging revelations in the papers revealed that four administrations, from Truman to Johnson, had misled the public regarding their intentions. For example, the John F. Kennedy administration had planned to overthrow South Vietnamese leader Ngo Dinh Diem before his death in a November 1963 coup. President Johnson had decided to expand the war while promising "we seek no wider war" during his 1964 presidential campaign, including plans to bomb North Vietnam well before the 1964 Election. President Johnson had been outspoken against doing so during the election and claimed that his opponent Barry Goldwater was the one that wanted to bomb North Vietnam.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 18:55 (ten years ago) link
mind you i don't think snowden = ellsberg or that the situations are exactly the same but all the same it's good to keep in mind that there was a time when ellsberg was not a beloved elder statesman of free speech et al, and that his actions were being denounced as treasonous. (also IIRC the PP were even more highly classified than what manning leaked, if not what snowden leaked.)
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 19:00 (ten years ago) link
how many liberals in '71 were rushing to compare dan ellsberg to a bank robber
well, back then Obama Democrats woulda been right of Rockefeller Republicans
― playwright Greg Marlowe, secretly in love with Mary (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 19:07 (ten years ago) link