Rolling 'this is sexist' thread

i was thinking more bruno, but yeah

The styling of the shoot is no big deal, not special, not all that artistic. It's hard to duck fast enough to avoid the message that the only good female writer is a dead female writer, though.

― Tottenham Heelspur (in orbit), Tuesday, June 18, 2013 11:20 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

There's quite a number of things one can hold against this photoshoot, but 'the only good female writer is a dead female writer'? Not picking up that vibe tbh.

Can't call this a sexist thing either. Mysoginist, appalling, a generally terrible idea? Certainly. But sexist?

wait how can something be misogynist but not sexist i dont understand

it's not true that the only good female writer is a dead one, but in order to be a GREAT writer she's gotta kill herself.

i'm sorry if that's a bit flippant but there's the fallacy of genius as madness and then there's the notion (cited in the article zavhlyon posted) that the only violence a woman can commit is against herself so... here we are, i guess

Rob Delaney Tweeted this: I just saw the VICE female author suicide fashion show and had a hearty LOL. I say this as a mentally ill person under a doctor's care.

...but seems to have removed it. He goes into more detail here, and it's interesting even if I disagree with some/most/a lot/all-ish of it:

http://robdelaney.tumblr.com/post/53302764977/hi-rob-im-a-huge-fan-i-love-all-your-writings-on

ugh that guy

that same decision process made me roll my eyes back in my head and groan, so one man's humor is another man's recognition that this was some weak-ass vice-style trolling

any guy who tries to demonstrate pro-feminist bona fides by saying "i am a guy who loves women" can go live in a dumpster for all i care tbh

let me run that past my many female friends for feedback

LOL OTM (xp)

You guys seem not to have noticed the stylist and photographer who did that shoot were both women. It's still a stupid idea (I like Crabbits' much better) and I can just imagine the editorial meeting where they presented it.

You guys seem not to have noticed the stylist and photographer who did that shoot were both women.

IT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE THE PATRIARCHY

that was mentioned once or twice, yes

Women in fashion industry sometimes fall prey to false consciousness, film at 11!

Thanks for letting me in on what women in the fashion industry do, I would never have known unless you intervened.

sure you could only lol tbh

Yes, you're better positioned than most to know that women in fashion often participate in fucked-up shit. So maybe don't whip out "but the photographer and stylist were women!" as if it's supposed to be some sort of trump card? idk

Especially when it's prefaced by "You guys seem not to have noticed," which I guess was supposed to make everyone go, "Oh, well that changes EVERYTHING."

I am actually w Lamp on this one. Kind of a huge bummer that we've p much shuffled past the death of Lenora Ivie Frago and have spent 3x as many posts wringing our hands over Vice one more time.

Don't think this warrants further discussion (other than "fuck this guy"):

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2344635/Misogynistic-pickup-artist-raises-17-000-Kickstarter-dating-guide-sleep-woman-shes-resisting-going-home-you.html

helpful link to salon piece to avoid daily mail clickthroughs:

http://www.salon.com/2013/06/19/kickstarter_pickup_artist_on_sleeping_with_women_expect_her_to_offer_some_resistance/

I love how he uses "plausible deniability" as if it's a mindblowing phrase. Couldn't believe I saw an apologetic who was also repulsed by the content but said the piece was 'well written'. This dude's a terrible writer on top of being a terrible human being.

"let's check out that latest youtube video" seems like a real deal-closer of a line tbf

esp since you don't need to go to anybody's house to do that in 2013.

guide for getting good
a what?
this guy is a total clown

sexist doesn't even begin to describe what that guy is

omg i kept reading and it was just nonstop looooool what a confused and deeply horrible loser this guy is

It’s your job, as the man, to make her as comfortable as possible. Also when you start to fool around, “I don’t kiss and tell.” goes a long, long way.

katie mcdonough otm here

This kind of utilitarian mapping of human interaction (guided by pretty misogynistic notions about women, power and consent) eliminates crucial dynamics (and the fun and eroticism, frankly) of flirting and pre-sex encounters.

as far as I can tell, the main cheat codes to unlocking successful human interaction are:

- be clean
- be nice

get her to open her mouth wide and then http://www.mentalfloss.com/sites/default/legacy/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/game_genie_nes.jpg

jesus can someone put a trigger warning on that please?

I can't tell if the majority of dude's contributions came before or after the campaign blew up all over the internet.

If after, then it sucks that, similar to the Chic-Fil-A deal, that valid and well-intentioned protest inadvertently created a hype machine that gave this asshat more funding. But I don't think he would have had difficulty getting funding without it either, sadly.

There's a passage in there which instructs the guy to put the girl's hand on his penis without asking permission. Yeah.

who published it? what's their deal? i mean, someone had to produce/distribute this book. someone must have read it. what's that person's excuse?

PERSONCOTT KICKSTARTER

oh right
he's depressing enough on his own, but add all that and i think it's just too much gross for me to handle
it makes me too disappointed in everyone and everything

There's a passage in there which instructs the guy to put the girl's hand on his penis without asking permission. Yeah.

― Neanderthal, Thursday, June 20, 2013 10:30 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

tbf "May I place your hand upon my penis" is probably not going to kick off a fun evening either. I mean there's context for everything, but imo it's not that hard to not sexually assault someone -- if they say they don't want something or pull away, you stop. Asking verbal permission for every single act first just seems like the way almost no one actually does things and few people actually want to do things, and if I'm being some kind of obtuse, mysoginistic caveman for saying so, then please correct me. I find the PUA approach, but I don't see how it's a guide to sexual assault, unless you actually want to use it to sexually assault someone.

"I find the PUA approach GROSS, but..."

is what that should say

Pull out your cock and put her hand on it. Remember, she is letting you do this because you have established yourself as a LEADER. Don’t ask for permission, GRAB HER HAND, and put it right on your dick.

This is the actual quote.

lol

ok, yeah

Is Put your hands on your hips and bend your knees in tight the next line?

xpost lol sry about that, in going from memory I butchered the quote and the context.

i remember the antioch rules -- they were widely mocked at the time and rarely employed. i had a close friend there and her stories were always wilder than mine.

it's the utter cluelessness and following mentality of kickstarter funders that make me feel the most deeply bummed, i think. how many people gave money to this guy?

I wonder how many were misguided "don't let them censor your horrible beliefs" activists. The other thing is that many may not have read the Reddit with his content, as he tends to play off his book as more of an innocent self-help guide in his Kickstarter description...which of course, it is not.

yeah I wouldn't wonder about that too deeply

can we just exile them and all 50 Shades readers to an island

The problem with what you initially said, hurting, is that the kind of guy who reads this type of ”self-help” book is the kind of guy who lacks social skills and the ability to pick up on social cues - so they really don't need to be encouraged with the whole ”no means yes” bullshit.

There were a bunch of people posting the same thing when ned posted the link on facebook, they were more concerned about ~ censorship ~ than the fact that this guy is promoting sexual and physical assault.

I can't find the link atm but a few months ago I read an article about a woman musing on how much space women are given to say "no" to sexual overtures and acts--the part that stuck is where she was making out w her gf for the first time and said, "Just tell me when to stop" and her gf stopped the make-out and rejected the whole model in which one person pushes until one person resists, no matter what the genders of the parties are. She's right, that model for consent totally blows! Forcing yourself on someone up until they have to say "NO!" is terrible! And this guy is saying, take it even further, make her forcefully physically reject you if she wants you to stop coercing her into sexual situations.

He is directly in line with sexual violence against women. Right in line. It's not even different.

"She's right, that model for consent totally blows! Forcing yourself on someone up until they have to say "NO!" is terrible! "

I understand your point, but what about the fact that a lot of people find constant "is this ok?" and "can I do x" to be a turn-off?

What...about that fact? It's not a binary opposition, those aren't the only two options.