The styling of the shoot is no big deal, not special, not all that artistic. It's hard to duck fast enough to avoid the message that the only good female writer is a dead female writer, though.
― Tottenham Heelspur (in orbit), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 21:20 (ten years ago) link
I like that NYMag piece by Michelle Dean.
― mh, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 21:44 (ten years ago) link
'female writers suicides' is such a zoolander theme i cant even tho
― should we bin tapping? (darraghmac), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 21:54 (ten years ago) link
i was thinking more bruno, but yeah
― stefon taylor swiftboat (s.clover), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 22:51 (ten years ago) link
― Tottenham Heelspur (in orbit), Tuesday, June 18, 2013 11:20 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
There's quite a number of things one can hold against this photoshoot, but 'the only good female writer is a dead female writer'? Not picking up that vibe tbh.
Can't call this a sexist thing either. Mysoginist, appalling, a generally terrible idea? Certainly. But sexist?
― Le Bateau Ivre, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 23:33 (ten years ago) link
wait how can something be misogynist but not sexist i dont understand
― stefon taylor swiftboat (s.clover), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 23:38 (ten years ago) link
it's not true that the only good female writer is a dead one, but in order to be a GREAT writer she's gotta kill herself.
― ⚓ (elmo argonaut), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 23:43 (ten years ago) link
i'm sorry if that's a bit flippant but there's the fallacy of genius as madness and then there's the notion (cited in the article zavhlyon posted) that the only violence a woman can commit is against herself so... here we are, i guess
― ⚓ (elmo argonaut), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 23:45 (ten years ago) link
Rob Delaney Tweeted this: I just saw the VICE female author suicide fashion show and had a hearty LOL. I say this as a mentally ill person under a doctor's care.
...but seems to have removed it. He goes into more detail here, and it's interesting even if I disagree with some/most/a lot/all-ish of it:
http://robdelaney.tumblr.com/post/53302764977/hi-rob-im-a-huge-fan-i-love-all-your-writings-on
― Walter Galt, Wednesday, 19 June 2013 12:31 (ten years ago) link
ugh that guy
― ⚓ (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 19 June 2013 13:36 (ten years ago) link
that same decision process made me roll my eyes back in my head and groan, so one man's humor is another man's recognition that this was some weak-ass vice-style trolling
― mh, Wednesday, 19 June 2013 13:47 (ten years ago) link
any guy who tries to demonstrate pro-feminist bona fides by saying "i am a guy who loves women" can go live in a dumpster for all i care tbh
― ⚓ (elmo argonaut), Wednesday, 19 June 2013 13:56 (ten years ago) link
let me run that past my many female friends for feedback
― mh, Wednesday, 19 June 2013 14:02 (ten years ago) link
LOL OTM (xp)
― Bees Against Racism (Tom D.), Wednesday, 19 June 2013 14:02 (ten years ago) link
You guys seem not to have noticed the stylist and photographer who did that shoot were both women. It's still a stupid idea (I like Crabbits' much better) and I can just imagine the editorial meeting where they presented it.
― on the sidelines dishing out sass (suzy), Wednesday, 19 June 2013 14:18 (ten years ago) link
You guys seem not to have noticed the stylist and photographer who did that shoot were both women.
IT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE THE PATRIARCHY
― 誤訳侮辱, Wednesday, 19 June 2013 14:24 (ten years ago) link
that was mentioned once or twice, yes
― mh, Wednesday, 19 June 2013 14:29 (ten years ago) link
Women in fashion industry sometimes fall prey to false consciousness, film at 11!
― This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Wednesday, 19 June 2013 14:31 (ten years ago) link
Thanks for letting me in on what women in the fashion industry do, I would never have known unless you intervened.
― on the sidelines dishing out sass (suzy), Wednesday, 19 June 2013 14:39 (ten years ago) link
sure you could only lol tbh
― should we bin tapping? (darraghmac), Wednesday, 19 June 2013 15:32 (ten years ago) link
Yes, you're better positioned than most to know that women in fashion often participate in fucked-up shit. So maybe don't whip out "but the photographer and stylist were women!" as if it's supposed to be some sort of trump card? idk
― This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Wednesday, 19 June 2013 15:40 (ten years ago) link
Especially when it's prefaced by "You guys seem not to have noticed," which I guess was supposed to make everyone go, "Oh, well that changes EVERYTHING."
― This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Wednesday, 19 June 2013 15:41 (ten years ago) link
I am actually w Lamp on this one. Kind of a huge bummer that we've p much shuffled past the death of Lenora Ivie Frago and have spent 3x as many posts wringing our hands over Vice one more time.
― my autocorrect is in Spanish right now (Drugs A. Money), Thursday, 20 June 2013 07:59 (ten years ago) link
Don't think this warrants further discussion (other than "fuck this guy"):
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2344635/Misogynistic-pickup-artist-raises-17-000-Kickstarter-dating-guide-sleep-woman-shes-resisting-going-home-you.html
― Neanderthal, Thursday, 20 June 2013 12:53 (ten years ago) link
helpful link to salon piece to avoid daily mail clickthroughs:
http://www.salon.com/2013/06/19/kickstarter_pickup_artist_on_sleeping_with_women_expect_her_to_offer_some_resistance/
― nagl dude dude dude (ledge), Thursday, 20 June 2013 12:55 (ten years ago) link
I love how he uses "plausible deniability" as if it's a mindblowing phrase. Couldn't believe I saw an apologetic who was also repulsed by the content but said the piece was 'well written'. This dude's a terrible writer on top of being a terrible human being.
― Neanderthal, Thursday, 20 June 2013 13:16 (ten years ago) link
"let's check out that latest youtube video" seems like a real deal-closer of a line tbf
― dimension nickröss (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 20 June 2013 13:19 (ten years ago) link
esp since you don't need to go to anybody's house to do that in 2013.
― Neanderthal, Thursday, 20 June 2013 13:22 (ten years ago) link
guide for getting good a what?this guy is a total clown
― free your spirit pig (La Lechera), Thursday, 20 June 2013 13:59 (ten years ago) link
sexist doesn't even begin to describe what that guy is
― free your spirit pig (La Lechera), Thursday, 20 June 2013 14:00 (ten years ago) link
omg i kept reading and it was just nonstop looooool what a confused and deeply horrible loser this guy is
It’s your job, as the man, to make her as comfortable as possible. Also when you start to fool around, “I don’t kiss and tell.” goes a long, long way.
katie mcdonough otm here
This kind of utilitarian mapping of human interaction (guided by pretty misogynistic notions about women, power and consent) eliminates crucial dynamics (and the fun and eroticism, frankly) of flirting and pre-sex encounters.
― free your spirit pig (La Lechera), Thursday, 20 June 2013 14:12 (ten years ago) link
as far as I can tell, the main cheat codes to unlocking successful human interaction are:
- be clean- be nice
― keyser saucy vagina (DJP), Thursday, 20 June 2013 14:14 (ten years ago) link
get her to open her mouth wide and then http://www.mentalfloss.com/sites/default/legacy/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/game_genie_nes.jpg
― Mordy , Thursday, 20 June 2013 14:21 (ten years ago) link
jesus can someone put a trigger warning on that please?
― resulting post (rogermexico.), Thursday, 20 June 2013 14:22 (ten years ago) link
I can't tell if the majority of dude's contributions came before or after the campaign blew up all over the internet.
If after, then it sucks that, similar to the Chic-Fil-A deal, that valid and well-intentioned protest inadvertently created a hype machine that gave this asshat more funding. But I don't think he would have had difficulty getting funding without it either, sadly.
There's a passage in there which instructs the guy to put the girl's hand on his penis without asking permission. Yeah.
― Neanderthal, Thursday, 20 June 2013 14:30 (ten years ago) link
who published it? what's their deal? i mean, someone had to produce/distribute this book. someone must have read it. what's that person's excuse?
― free your spirit pig (La Lechera), Thursday, 20 June 2013 14:35 (ten years ago) link
PERSONCOTT KICKSTARTER
― resulting post (rogermexico.), Thursday, 20 June 2013 14:38 (ten years ago) link
oh righthe's depressing enough on his own, but add all that and i think it's just too much gross for me to handleit makes me too disappointed in everyone and everything
― free your spirit pig (La Lechera), Thursday, 20 June 2013 14:40 (ten years ago) link
― Neanderthal, Thursday, June 20, 2013 10:30 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
tbf "May I place your hand upon my penis" is probably not going to kick off a fun evening either. I mean there's context for everything, but imo it's not that hard to not sexually assault someone -- if they say they don't want something or pull away, you stop. Asking verbal permission for every single act first just seems like the way almost no one actually does things and few people actually want to do things, and if I'm being some kind of obtuse, mysoginistic caveman for saying so, then please correct me. I find the PUA approach, but I don't see how it's a guide to sexual assault, unless you actually want to use it to sexually assault someone.
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Thursday, 20 June 2013 14:51 (ten years ago) link
"I find the PUA approach GROSS, but..."
is what that should say
Pull out your cock and put her hand on it. Remember, she is letting you do this because you have established yourself as a LEADER. Don’t ask for permission, GRAB HER HAND, and put it right on your dick.
This is the actual quote.
― keyser saucy vagina (DJP), Thursday, 20 June 2013 14:54 (ten years ago) link
lol
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Thursday, 20 June 2013 14:56 (ten years ago) link
ok, yeah
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Thursday, 20 June 2013 14:57 (ten years ago) link
Is Put your hands on your hips and bend your knees in tight the next line?
― The drone that was played caused panic and confusion (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 20 June 2013 14:58 (ten years ago) link
xpost lol sry about that, in going from memory I butchered the quote and the context.
― Neanderthal, Thursday, 20 June 2013 14:59 (ten years ago) link
i remember the antioch rules -- they were widely mocked at the time and rarely employed. i had a close friend there and her stories were always wilder than mine.
it's the utter cluelessness and following mentality of kickstarter funders that make me feel the most deeply bummed, i think. how many people gave money to this guy?
― free your spirit pig (La Lechera), Thursday, 20 June 2013 15:00 (ten years ago) link
I wonder how many were misguided "don't let them censor your horrible beliefs" activists. The other thing is that many may not have read the Reddit with his content, as he tends to play off his book as more of an innocent self-help guide in his Kickstarter description...which of course, it is not.
― Neanderthal, Thursday, 20 June 2013 15:05 (ten years ago) link
yeah I wouldn't wonder about that too deeply
― keyser saucy vagina (DJP), Thursday, 20 June 2013 15:06 (ten years ago) link
can we just exile them and all 50 Shades readers to an island
― Neanderthal, Thursday, 20 June 2013 15:07 (ten years ago) link
The problem with what you initially said, hurting, is that the kind of guy who reads this type of ”self-help” book is the kind of guy who lacks social skills and the ability to pick up on social cues - so they really don't need to be encouraged with the whole ”no means yes” bullshit.
There were a bunch of people posting the same thing when ned posted the link on facebook, they were more concerned about ~ censorship ~ than the fact that this guy is promoting sexual and physical assault.
― just1n3, Thursday, 20 June 2013 15:11 (ten years ago) link